Proposal: If you were the Leafs GM would you trade Jake Gardiner?

[Kurisu]

any player on the roster should be traded if it makes us better. We're a mediocre team that might or might not make the playoffs each year. There shouldn't be any untouchables on the roster.

 

[WWB]

I think Kostka broke his finger.

Absolutely its my opinion. Still Carlyle handed crazy icetime to the Holzers and Kostkas and chose to sit Jake who had already proven to be an nhl player.

Coaches make mistakes too.

It's called developing young players. The Holzers and Kostkas are/were young players the Leafs also have/had hopes for helping them at the NHL level. Just because Gardiner has more upside doesn't mean he should automatically be given a spot. These other guys got their chances and much needed experience. When they struggled they were also sat out and sent back for more seasoning. When the games meant the most, the most talented player was in the lineup and making an impact.

 

[goonx]

For letang? Yes.
For a top 10 pick? Yes
For legit #1C under 30? Yes

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

On behalf of the Red Wings I'd like to offer you a 5th round pick, some Little Ceasar's pizza coupons and Kyle Quincey? Deal?

Serious question; I live in Toronto but I'm from Detroit so I don't follow the Leafs (or didn't until now, as we'll be in the same division as you guys) but WHAT is the problem with Gardiner?

I really only saw the tail end of the series vs the Bruins but he looked incredible to me, the guy is huge, smooth/great skater, his passing seemed fine. I mean I would literally kill someone to get a guy like that onto our roster. Why does your coach hate him?

Seriously not trolling, I live here, I want to get interested in the Leafs (although I'm not giving up my "home town" team) but it seems frustrating when they do things like trade for a goalie (I thought the goalie was fine? Many ppl said he's WHY you made the playoffs) or refuse to play a guy who looks like Chris Pronger but skates like Nick Lidstrom.

Every player has his price. How many coupons? Medium or large pizzas?

He's definitely not huge - 6'2 and fairly light right now - will probably end up around 200 or a bit over. Otherwise, your assessment of his play is pretty accurate.

Carlyle doesn't hate him by any stretch, though. He's just not going to give anyone a free ride. Gardiner was initially moved down to the minors to play himself back into game shape after a concussion. When he first came back, he struggled, so Carlyle went with other guys.

Some on these boards say that he only got in the lineup because of an injury to Kostka in game one, but that simply isn't true. Gardiner was coming in regardless, and both he and Franson were given important roles from game two on. Carlyle also stuck with Jake as he struggled a bit early in his first game back.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Gagner or Stats for Gardiner is a joke for us.

Couts and ROR is close to fair value for both parties.

RNH has a more value than Gards and we'd have to add.

Thornton would work, albeit he is 33 years old.

Gardiner for Thornton!?!? You make that trade and your name will be remembered for a long time.

And this is coming from someone who would love to find a way to get Thornton (for the right price.)

 

[Stephen]

any player on the roster should be traded if it makes us better. We're a mediocre team that might or might not make the playoffs each year. There shouldn't be any untouchables on the roster.

Sometimes being very proactive with chance and trades just leads to ruin. Look at Philadelphia, in two years they've churned through JVR, Carter, Richards, Briere, Bryzgalov and they're no better, and possibly much worse than they were before.

 

[goonx]

Sometimes being very proactive with chance and trades just leads to ruin. Look at Philadelphia, in two years they've churned through JVR, Carter, Richards, Briere, Bryzgalov and they're no better, and possibly much worse than they were before.

It was unfortunate for them.. But it could have paid off big. It was several bad signings and trades that got them that low.

 

[officialmark7*]

For letang? Yes.
For a top 10 pick? Yes
For legit #1C under 30? Yes

No.
No.
Yes.

 

[Renegade]

It will be a very sad day if Gardiner gets traded. We will watch him become an all star for the next 10 years if we let him go. Only guys I'd trade him for are Letang and a future #1 centre. Nothing else.

No Gagner, no Stastny, no Couturier.

 

[Ari91]

I think Kostka broke his finger.

Absolutely its my opinion. Still Carlyle handed crazy icetime to the Holzers and Kostkas and chose to sit Jake who had already proven to be an nhl player.

Coaches make mistakes too.

Suggesting that Carlyle was forced to play Gardiner because of Kostka's injury is a complete assumption on your part. Carlyle also had at least one another d-man sitting in the press box but he went with Gardiner.

Sure coaches make mistakes, doesn't mean that Carlyle made a mistake with Gardiner. You don't seem to acknowledge the possibility of expecting your player to address concerns put forth about their game. It's called player accountability. Holzer and Kostka won't ever be on the level of Gardiner but they are different kinds of players and therefore the expectations of each of them may not be the same. No player is perfect but if a player is addressing concerns or workings towards their potential and the team is winning despite their individual struggles, then that may be enough reason for a coach to play them instead of playing a guy who he may feel needs to show more commitment in improving the holes in his game. I'm not saying that was the situation, but I'm saying that it's a reasonable situation to consider where a coach may make the kind of decisions that Carlyle made. Hindsight may be 20/20 but information is also important (and neither of us know exactly why those decisions were made, just that they were made).

It would be naive to think that the situation is so black and white. A coach may think that the way to motivate his player is to make him work for his spot. Another may think giving him the opportunity is an act of faith that may motivate the player. It depends on the player and it depends on the relationship he has with his coach. For whatever reason, Carlyle gave Gardiner the opportunity in game 2 and Gardiner responded and so he was rewarded with even more ice-time and given more responsibilities on the ice. If anything, Carlyle has made it clear what he expects from each player. If the expectations are different for each player, then it is reasonable to think that the reasons for playing each guy may also differ.

 

[PuckMagi]

i wouldn't trade gardiner under any (remotely realistic) circumstances.

 

[7even]

For letang? Yes.
For a top 10 pick? Yes
For legit #1C under 30? Yes

Yes
No
Probably

Unless tha pick is top 4. Anything else just sets us back more. With Kessel coming into his prime years, we need help now.

 

[Moncherry]

No.

Jake was absolutely dominant in the playoffs, one of the if not the best player on the ice night in and night out.

A million times this.

He became my favourite player on this team after that series. It wasn't just his offensive skills, his defensive weaknesses that were apparent during the regular season completely vanished. The belief that he's expendable just because we have Rielly is bogus, we should be hoarding talent, not giving it away. At the moment I would say that along with JVR, Kadri, and Kessel, he's among the only true gamebreaking talent we have on the roster.

Maybe Lupul as well, but I'm not sure if that's his potential coming into a late bloom or if it's just a matter of chemistry and overachieving.

 

[Rielly4]

Letangs cool and all, but dont **** with our d core... Its Phaneuf, Rielly, Franson, Gardiner, Fraser, Gunner, Percy, Holzer, Finn... All young D and a great core.

 

[Rielly4]

A million times this.

He became my favourite player on this team after that series. It wasn't just his offensive skills, his defensive weaknesses that were apparent during the regular season completely vanished. The belief that he's expendable just because we have Rielly is bogus, we should be hoarding talent, not giving it away. At the moment I would say that along with JVR, Kadri, and Kessel, he's among the only true gamebreaking talent we have on the roster.

Maybe Lupul as well, but I'm not sure if that's his potential coming into a late bloom or if it's just a matter of chemistry and overachieving.

This... I really like our goaltending tandem. Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner and Franson are all really good young players with talent. Fraser Gunner and Holzer are all young bottom pairing guys who are solid defensivley and decent puck movers. Our defense is set, Lupul JVR Kadri and Kessel all have gamebreaking offensive talent... This is the core, we should not be blowing up the team because we are a few forwards away from being really good.. Maybe one more game breaker in that top six, a guy who plays a good puck possesion game and can pass the puck. Then make sure our 3rd line is gritty, good defensivley, energetic and can score from time to time and get some offensive zone time. This is what we need, but we shouldnt be trading any of our young d core, goalies, or key forwards. Guys we could trade are Kulemin, Colborne, Blacker... Thats about it in my opinion.

 

[AuGsY]

No.
No.
Yes.

this.

 

[SportsballChic]

Our coach doesn't hate him and don't listen to anyone who suggests that. Because of the lockout, Gardiner started the year playing for the Marlies where he suffered a concussion. When he was ready to return, he was eventually brought up to the Leafs but he was struggling and it was felt that he needed more time with the Marlies for conditioning purposes so he was sent back down. When they finally felt he was ready, he returned, had a great comeback game but slowly fell off the radar due to poor defensive mistakes. He ended up getting scratched for a number of games and I think was scratched for game 1 of the playoffs. Carlyle made it clear that Gardiner needed to pay more attention to his defence. After game 1, Carlyle realize that the Leafs needed to utilize an obvious strength over the Bruins which was their skating so as a result, Gardiner and Liles (offensive minded D that are great skaters) were put into the line-up. Gardiner pretty much went beast mode in the playoffs and not just with his offensive chances but he was making great defensive plays. I can assure you, that the Gardiner you saw was easily the best Gardiner has ever played and it was a reminder to all of us of the kind of special player he can be.

Thank you; that was a very informative explanation and much easier to understand than someone yelling on TSN.

Injuries happen, taking a concussion slow is smart on the organization's behalf; rush those guys back and you maybe ruin the player.

I was not aware it was a motivational benching; definitely something we've seen Babcock do with our young players in Detroit if they start to wander/refuse to play defense.

I will say; I only saw him for 4 games basically but he looked like a 5 year all star in those 4 games. I hope for the city's sake he's really that guy going forward because *that* Gardiner could win a Norris some day imo.

Thanks again.

 

[SportsballChic]

Every player has his price. How many coupons? Medium or large pizzas?

He's definitely not huge - 6'2 and fairly light right now - will probably end up around 200 or a bit over. Otherwise, your assessment of his play is pretty accurate.

Carlyle doesn't hate him by any stretch, though. He's just not going to give anyone a free ride. Gardiner was initially moved down to the minors to play himself back into game shape after a concussion. When he first came back, he struggled, so Carlyle went with other guys.

Some on these boards say that he only got in the lineup because of an injury to Kostka in game one, but that simply isn't true. Gardiner was coming in regardless, and both he and Franson were given important roles from game two on. Carlyle also stuck with Jake as he struggled a bit early in his first game back.

Medium, but you get two! We can afford this somehow by not giving you a 7 cent pizza box. Not to worry however my good friend as the pizza tastes like cardboard anyways so you will not miss the box!

Thanks for the explanation; with a player that talented I can see not wanting to spoil him. (or at least as talented as he looked to me).

I like Franson too, that was #4 right? He was pretty good, but he didn't make me salivate and want to steal him

I'm looking forward to the season and intend to buy my Gardiner jersey with confidence. Thanks

 

[Rielly4]

I would trade Gardiner for a guy like Bobby Ryan, Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane or Matt Duchene. But hes basically untouchable. Morgan Rielly is completely untouchable in my opinion and i believe Nonis has the same opinion.

 

[7even]

I would trade Gardiner for a guy like Bobby Ryan, Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane or Matt Duchene. But hes basically untouchable. Morgan Rielly is completely untouchable in my opinion and i believe Nonis has the same opinion.

3 of those guys are wingers. We're stacked on wing. Duchene in a heartbeat though.

 

[pucci2001]

No.
No.
Yes.

Top 5 or 7 pick I might be thinking yes.

 

[hullsy47]

Top 5 or 7 pick I might be thinking yes.

if its true edmonton might move RNH package him hell ya .....some trades are gonna surprise people ,and edmonton will have to pay some crazy salaries in the near future .

 

[JackJ]

Not actively.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

3 of those guys are wingers. We're stacked on wing. Duchene in a heartbeat though.

If you could get someone like Evander Kane, you take him. Heck, I'd him as a centre or even have JVR play in that role. You can never have enough guys like Kane IMO.

 

[613Leafer]

In terms of centres from this draft... Assuming MacKinnon/Barkov are out of our realistic range to trade to..

I would trade Gardiner to get Lindholm. In a second. This kid is BETTER than Niklas Backstrom was at his age. He's a really really well rounded young centre. He would be a top 2-3 pick in most drafts, and for whatever reason, very few people are really talking about him.

For Monahan? Tougher choice. Assuming that would be Edmontons pick, id expect them to throw in one of their B level Defencemen prospects in with the pick, something like 7th + Musil for Gardiner.