If you were GM picking class of '03 now

[Bruwinz37]

See my PM...I won't do the work for you. You made the statement, its your job to convince us.

I have told you why I view him as a better player. If you do not wish to comment on any of that then I will assume you either agree with me or you have nothing to refute me with.

 

[McDeepika]

I don't know why everybody is so down on Fleury. He was great in the game against Edmonton last year. Now I know it is only one game, but you can't expect him to be super consistant at the age of 20. He would still be in the top 5 for me.

 

[Patty Ice]

I have told you why I view him as a better player. If you do not wish to comment on any of that then I will assume you either agree with me or you have nothing to refute me with.

You've said he was a better defensive player but you never explained why he is a better defensive player. You've said you seen each many times so I expect something more in-depth than a dry statement. Like I wrote in my PM, I'll take Staal's frame and vision. Nothing you have posted has lead me to think otherwise

 

[hockeyfan125]

Bergeron is closer to his upside then Zherdev and Staal, imo. He is a great player, but his peak is not as high as the others, even if he is a bit better right now at this point in time.

Staal displays flashes of brilliance that Bergeron doesn't, and same with Zherdev.

 

[Hawker14]

I don't know why everybody is so down on Fleury. He was great in the game against Edmonton last year. Now I know it is only one game, but you can't expect him to be super consistant at the age of 20. He would still be in the top 5 for me.

i think fleury will be a very good goalie, but my own personal philosophy is to not draft any goalie in the top 5 overall ... i'd rather go quantity, select 2-3 goalies per draft, and hope i luck out. it seems alot of the elite goalies have been late first and later round draft picks.

 

[Epsilon]

i think fleury will be a very good goalie, but my own personal philosophy is to not draft any goalie in the top 5 overall ... i'd rather go quantity, select 2-3 goalies per draft, and hope i luck out. it seems alot of the elite goalies have been late first and later round draft picks.

If you had a top 5 pick in 2002 and had passed on Lehtonen, it would be one of the worst moves in the history of the NHL draft. Making absolute rules for drafting is pretty stupid.

 

[Hawker14]

If you had a top 5 pick in 2002 and had passed on Lehtonen, it would be one of the worst moves in the history of the NHL draft. Making absolute rules for drafting is pretty stupid.

thanks for the heads up. i'll be sure to let mike milbury he was "smart" to select rick dipietro ahead of dany heatley and marian gaborik.

i would have selected bouwmeester and pitkanen ahead of lehtonen. i happen to think cam ward will be just as capable as kari lehtonen.

here are the goalies drafted in the top 10 during the past 20 years:

montoya, fleury, lehtonen, leclair, blackburn, dipietro, krahn, finley, luongo, storr, thibeault, and waite.

with the exception of luongo and thibeault, and possibly dipietro, none are #1 goalies.

i will stand behind my philosophy as i believe it has merit.

 

[Hedberg]

Why has this thread turned into a Zherdev vs. Bergeron debate?

 

[Epsilon]

thanks for the heads up. i'll be sure to let mike milbury he was "smart" to select rick dipietro ahead of dany heatley and marian gaborik.

Where on earth did I say that? That being said, not taking Dipietro in the top 5 would be almost as dumb. I guess you would prefer a 3rd line grinder like Torres to a potential franchise goaltender?

i would have selected bouwmeester and pitkanen ahead of lehtonen.

That's reasonable enough.

i happen to think cam ward will be just as capable as kari lehtonen.

Based upon what exactly?

here are the goalies drafted in the top 10 during the past 20 years:

montoya, fleury, lehtonen, leclair, blackburn, dipietro, krahn, finley, luongo, storr, thibeault, and waite.

with the exception of luongo and thibeault, and possibly dipietro, none are #1 goalies.

Some of them have hardly had the chance yet. You are penalizing Lehtonen, Fleury, and Montoya because they arn't starters yet? I see 9 other goalies, 3 of whom are NHL starters. That's seems like a pretty good number to me.

i will stand behind my philosophy as i believe it has merit.

Thankfully you will never be running an NHL team.

 

[Hawker14]

Thankfully you will never be running an NHL team.

i guess if you can't accept other people's opinions, one avenue available is to try to insult them. although i probably shouldn't even comment on mild flaming such as your comment.

 

[salty justice]

i think fleury will be a very good goalie, but my own personal philosophy is to not draft any goalie in the top 5 overall ... i'd rather go quantity, select 2-3 goalies per draft, and hope i luck out. it seems alot of the elite goalies have been late first and later round draft picks.

Id agree with that. Theres just so much that can go right or wrong in a goalie's progression to the NHL that is almost doesnt matter at all where you draft them. And most scouts would agree that they are impossible to read early on.

There's a reason no one ever took a goaltender at #1 before Mad Mike.

 

[King'sPawn]

Ademittedly, I was a little hard on the Kings, (probably b/c I'm an Oil fan), as they put themselves in position to draft a nucleus that could have made them a contender for a decade. Bottom line, I think they could have done better. Don't pay too much attention to the letters for people at the top or bottom of the first round. Someone like Boyle and Tambellini, who I had falling only slightly, to the top of round two, automatically got F's for falling to NR. Just a silly and arbitrary system. With the improvement of Bergeron, Weber and company, a few first rounders had to be knocked out and they were my picks. Others might be Eaves, Pouliot, Belle etc..

As for Brown, I don't have him falling that far, just to 18. I just happen to like guys like Perry, Getzlaf and Parise more.

All right, if that's your rationale. I still feel you're selling the Kings short, but that's beside the point. You took the time to make the list, so that's appreciated either way... even if I have to strongly disagree with it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond in spite of my somewhat harsh critique

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Interesting that not one person I've seen has "drafted" Pouliot higher than Parise. If you'll remember, Oil fans were crying for them to pick Parise at 17 but they traded down with NJ to pick Pouliot. Also picked up a 3rd rounder, JF Jacques, who is pretty solid. What do you think, good move/ bad move?

Even as an Oiler fan at this point I would not have Pouliot over Parise. That said, Jacques IMO would be a 2nd rounder if the draft were re-done and would possibly even be a late 1st rounder in a lesser draft. He has done nothing to drop his stock, and he actually improved his stock quite a bit with a great year in the QMJHL. He is big "6-4 220lbs." hits like a truck, and had over 30 goals while leading his team in regular season scoring and by collecting 3 first star selections in a 6 game play-off series loss. He ended up with 4 three star selections and over a ppg. in that series. He didn't score in his first 5 or 6 games at the AHL level after his QMJHL team was eliminated, but he showed that his physical game translates to the pro's. He will likely be a 3rd liner who could possibly develop into a 2nd liner. All-in-all I like this trade better now than at the draft with the emergence of Jacques as a legit pro prospect. Pouliot's pro success will be found out soon enough, IMO we have yet to see the best that he has to offer considering how much time he's missed over the past 2 years with injuries that occurred during the season and drug on to recovery in the off-season.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

All right, if that's your rationale. I still feel you're selling the Kings short, but that's beside the point. You took the time to make the list, so that's appreciated either way... even if I have to strongly disagree with it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond in spite of my somewhat harsh critique

This draft is proving to be so deep that it's in-evitable that players will be ranked too low in some people's eyes. Players that would be top 10 in other draft years maybe pushing the 2nd round in the '03 class!!! It's incredible at how deep this class was!!!

 

[hab 4ever]

Even as an Oiler fan at this point I would not have Pouliot over Parise. That said, Jacques IMO would be a 2nd rounder if the draft were re-done and would possibly even be a late 1st rounder in a lesser draft. He has done nothing to drop his stock, and he actually improved his stock quite a bit with a great year in the QMJHL. .

Actually, Jacques WAS a selected in the second round, although with the last pick in this round (68th) . (I know you are not the first to consider him as a third round pick in this thread). On the other side, I completely agree with your arguments. To me, Jacques has already exceeded his draft ranking and would most likely be gone by the 45th or 50th selection if the draft was held today. I believe Parisé is a better player than Pouliot at this time, but whenever both will have a few nhl seasons under their belt, the gap will not be very large between both former first-round picks. All in all, I feel like this trade was good for both teams, depending on what kind of players Lowe or Lamoriello were seeking at the time.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Actually, Jacques WAS a selected in the second round, although with the last pick in this round (68th) . (I know you are not the first to consider him as a third round pick in this thread). On the other side, I completely agree with your arguments. To me, Jacques has already exceeded his draft ranking and would most likely be gone by the 45th or 50th selection if the draft was held today. I believe Parisé is a better player than Pouliot at this time, but whenever both will have a few nhl seasons under their belt, the gap will not be very large between both former first-round picks. All in all, I feel like this trade was good for both teams, depending on what kind of players Lowe or Lamoriello were seeking at the time.

I think that Jacques will be a player, and luckily the Oilers were able to get Schremp in last years draft so in essence the Oilers got their 1st line center "Schremp" they got a 2nd line center "Pouliot" and a 2nd/3rd line Power Forward "Jacques". So IMO it looks even rosier when you throw Schremp into the mix "even though Schremp's addition has squat to do with Parise". At this point I like this trade, however until we see what Pouliot can do at the AHL level, it will be difficult to compare him to Parise. NJ seems to be happy with the trade, and I know that I'm liking it more day after day, so it seems to have helped both teams.

 

[EroCaps]

I'm not sure the logic behind Eric Fehr dropping on all these lists. WHL POY, has improved notably each year.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I understand what you mean. I dont know if I agree 100% or not, but you are probably right. Its impossible to know who will be better overall, but IMO Bergeron is a tough one to beat because of his unreal hockey sense, his maturity, and an incredible work ethic. The game he played as an 18 year old is unheard of in terms of maturity, hockey sense, and responsibility at both ends of the ice.

..and Mike Richards outplayed him in the recent Phantoms-Bruins series, and Carter was better than both.

I like Bergereon a lot, and he's a guy I'd love to have on my team, but he's not one of the top 5 players from the 2003 draft.

 

[Bruwinz37]

..and Mike Richards outplayed him in the recent Phantoms-Bruins series, and Carter was better than both.

I like Bergereon a lot, and he's a guy I'd love to have on my team, but he's not one of the top 5 players from the 2003 draft.

And Philly was a stacked team vs a pretty weak Providence team. Until Carter and Richards do something in the NHL they have accomplished what Bergeron has.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

And Philly was a stacked team vs a pretty weak Providence team. Until Carter and Richards do something in the NHL they have accomplished what Bergeron has.

Yes, Bergeron has done more at an NHL level ..

and after the 2000 draft Justin Williams had a very nice 2000-01 season, while Dany Heatly was still playing for Wisconsin ... just because you get there first doesn't mean you'll be the best.

 

[Bruwinz37]

Yes, Bergeron has done more at an NHL level ..

and after the 2000 draft Justin Williams had a very nice 2000-01 season, while Dany Heatly was still playing for Wisconsin ... just because you get there first doesn't mean you'll be the best.

Its about as good of an argument as you using a set of 6 games to determine a which player will be better. Dont get me wrong, I like Carter and Richards a lot, but until you have done, you havent.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Its about as good of an argument as you using a set of 6 games to determine a which player will be better. Dont get me wrong, I like Carter and Richards a lot, but until you have done, you havent.

So you'd take Bergeron over Crosby and Ovechkin ???

 

[FearTheFlyers]

And Philly was a stacked team vs a pretty weak Providence team. Until Carter and Richards do something in the NHL they have accomplished what Bergeron has.

This is such a joke of an argument. Richards and Carter owned Bergeron in a series they played against each other and Bergeron is still better because he has played in the NHL?

 

[Hawker14]

I'm not sure the logic behind Eric Fehr dropping on all these lists. WHL POY, has improved notably each year.

for me, watching fehr at the canadian junior selection camp playing against other elite prospects, he didn't do anything that made him stand out. he's a great talent, no doubt about it, but i'm not sure he should have been more than a top 15-20 overall pick.

 

[CH Wizard]

Kostitsyn is so underrated over here it's not even funny, give him time.I know, he hasn't produced quite well in stronger leagues.....but he still has a really big offensive upside.His offensive skills are unreals.

Some prospects take more time to developp.Especially european prospects.