If you were GM picking class of '03 now

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Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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Vlad The Impaler said:
That should prove to be your best contribution.

Hey, you've actually graduated from emoticons to actual text. Good job big guy!

Still no actual points to prove though I see.
 

Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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Epsilon said:
Find me one GM or scout that had Bergeron further ahead on their draft board than Zherdev. The fact that nearly every team in the NHL passed on him at least once, most of them several times, makes it fairly clear that no one regarded him that highly at the time. And I highly doubt anything has changed since then.

You highly doubt that teams wish they didnt regard Bergeron higher? That is a pretty odd thing to say.
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
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Bruwinz37 said:
You highly doubt that teams wish they didnt regard Bergeron higher? That is a pretty odd thing to say.

Oh, I'm sure they do. I just don't think any of them would have him regarded higher than Zherdev at any point. Not then, and not now.
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
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Epsilon said:
Find me one GM or scout that had Bergeron further ahead on their draft board than Zherdev. The fact that nearly every team in the NHL passed on him at least once, most of them several times, makes it fairly clear that no one regarded him that highly at the time. And I highly doubt anything has changed since then.
first off, the last thing I want to do is put Zherdev down- he's a good bet for 40 goals a season under the recent hook/grab/impede game last seen. I'd take him in a heart beat. 30 teams passed on Tom Brady atleast 4 or 5 or more times- 198 picks. Everybody with a pick in the first round passed on Dan Marino. How many rounds did it take before Luc Robitaille went?

Skillwise- Zherdev is clearly worthy of a neon light. However, Bergeron has a complete game right now. He can bang, check, kill penalties, one of best passers I've seen since Oates, take faceoffs- Marty Lapointe said last year he's never seen anyone with this hockey sense at this age. Thornton said 'he is learning stuff from Bergeron'.

It's sort of like Hejduk and Drury with Colorado. We'll table this one until further date but as gifted as Zherdev is Bergeron is that winner that teams die for.
 

Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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Epsilon said:
Oh, I'm sure they do. I just don't think any of them would have him regarded higher than Zherdev at any point. Not then, and not now.

I understand what you mean. I dont know if I agree 100% or not, but you are probably right. Its impossible to know who will be better overall, but IMO Bergeron is a tough one to beat because of his unreal hockey sense, his maturity, and an incredible work ethic. The game he played as an 18 year old is unheard of in terms of maturity, hockey sense, and responsibility at both ends of the ice.
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
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DKH said:
We'll table this one until further date but as gifted as Zherdev is Bergeron is that winner that teams die for.

What exactly has Bergeron won or proven to be labelled "that winner that teams die for" other than a WJC championship with a stacked team, which is something that Zherdev has as well? It's not like he led Providence to the promised land or anything this season, despite playing in front of one of the AHL's best goaltenders.
 

Patty Ice

Straight to the Banc
Feb 27, 2002
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Bruwinz37 said:
I do know the truth and Patrice Bergeron is a better hockey player. The other truth is that you are about as mature as a 5 year old and couldnt formulate a solid argument to back up your point.

Where is your proof to backup your claim if ya wanna call people out? My only point is that you wouldn't be jocking Bergeron if he wasn't on the Bruins. My proof...one only has to look at your name and posting style. Now how is Bergy better than Staal? And remember your previous post...numbers aren't everything.

EDIT: and I'd like to point how Pejorative Slured it is to call some on out to "formulate a solid argument" in a post when in the same message you spew out "Patrice Bergeron is a better hockey player" with no evidence to support it. Have fun in fantasy Bruins' land.
 

Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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Patty Ice XXX said:
Where is your proof to backup your claim if ya wanna call people out? My only point is that you wouldn't be jocking Bergeron if he wasn't on the Bruins. My proof...one only has to look at your name and posting style. Now how is Bergy better than Staal? And remember your previous post...numbers aren't everything.

EDIT: and I'd like to point how Pejorative Slured it is to call some on out to "formulate a solid argument" in a post when in the same message you spew out "Patrice Bergeron is a better hockey player" with no evidence to support it. Have fun in fantasy Bruins' land.

He is a more physical player, he is better defensively, his hockey sense is better and his first year NHL numbers were better. I have seen them both play many times and Bergeron is the better player.

You obviously havent read enough of my posts to know me either way. Get off your high horse and act like an adult. I am in no way in a "Bruins fantasy land". If you disagree with me, then make some valid points. If you can't do that then stay out of the discussion.

Quick question, did you become a mod so you could post the way you do? Without fear of being reprimanded? I could see how someone with low self esteem and self confidence would do something so weak. I doubt your posts would be so inflamatory if you werent hiding under the guise of a mod.
 

Hawker14

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Bruwinz37 said:
He is a more physical player, he is better defensively, his hockey sense is better and his first year NHL numbers were better. I have seen them both play many times and Bergeron is the better player.

You obviously havent read enough of my posts to know me either way. Get off your high horse and act like an adult. I am in no way in a "Bruins fantasy land". If you disagree with me, then make some valid points. If you can't do that then stay out of the discussion.

Quick question, did you become a mod so you could post the way you do? Without fear of being reprimanded? I could see how someone with low self esteem and self confidence would do something so weak. I doubt your posts would be so inflamatory if you werent hiding under the guise of a mod.

ouch
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
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Epsilon said:
What exactly has Bergeron won or proven to be labelled "that winner that teams die for" other than a WJC championship with a stacked team, which is something that Zherdev has as well? It's not like he led Providence to the promised land or anything this season, despite playing in front of one of the AHL's best goaltenders.
I could care less about the WJC and AHL, I'm talking about the NHL. I'm not going to argue with you. You can think I'm wrong, I'll think your wrong and end it at that. There's no point discussing further.
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
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DKH said:
I could care less about the WJC and AHL, I'm talking about the NHL. I'm not going to argue with you. You can think I'm wrong, I'll think your wrong and end it at that. There's no point discussing further.

You are simply making cliched arguments full of buzzwords but lacking in any substance. What makes Bergeron a "winner"? In particular, why should I think he is more of a "winnner" than Zherdev? Can you not back that statement up with any sort of evidence?
 

Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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Epsilon said:
You are simply making cliched arguments full of buzzwords but lacking in any substance. What makes Bergeron a "winner"? In particular, why should I think he is more of a "winnner" than Zherdev? Can you not back that statement up with any sort of evidence?

I dont want to speak for DKH, but I think what he meant was that Bergeron is more the type of player teams look for when the going gets tough. He plays great in the high traffic areas, he will lay the big hits, steps up his game even more when the stakes are higher. Not a knock against Zherdev at all and I think it is a pretty fair assesment of the two players. I guess you can think of it this way, Zherdev will always be the big time point producer, but Bergeron will be a good point producer but more importantly he will be all the other little things that helps a team win.
 

Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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Patty Ice XXX said:
Still waiting. You are making simple statements with no reasoning. Then personally attack me (while telling me to grow up)...shows me exactly where you are at.

What is your problem? Grow up, I made a full post where I laid out why I thought Bergeron was a better player. If you cannot find it after spending so many years on this board then that says a lot about your basic computer skills.

Stop baiting me.
 

Gags1288

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Bruwinz37 said:
I dont want to speak for DKH, but I think what he meant was that Bergeron is more the type of player teams look for when the going gets tough. He plays great in the high traffic areas, he will lay the big hits, steps up his game even more when the stakes are higher. Not a knock against Zherdev at all and I think it is a pretty fair assesment of the two players. I guess you can think of it this way, Zherdev will always be the big time point producer, but Bergeron will be a good point producer but more importantly he will be all the other little things that helps a team win.
I think you guys fail to realize things like upside and potential. Is Patrice the better two-way player right now? sure he is, but that doesn't mean Zherdev won't develop a two way game. And their offensive talents aren't even close. 61 points in the AHL isn't anything to write home about, even R.J. Umberger (a professional rookie) managed to score 65 points on a comparable team. Bergeron will deliver the big hit? let's be real here, Bergeron has never and will probably never deliver a game changing hit, he's not that type of player. He's not an exceptional penalty killer (i.e. Mike Richards) and while his hockey sense is very good for someone his age, it's not significantly better than Zherdev's, if at all.

Zherdev's offensive talents can't be denied. He has great speed, stickhandling ability, and a very good arsenal of shots. He's an elite offensive player and already capable of scoring close to a point per game in the NHL. He was exceptional in the second half of the season and like has already been mentioned scored just 5 fewer points in 15 fewer games (i.e. he has a better PPG). Add to the fact that Zherdev played with significantly weaker linemates and I think it's pretty difficult to argue that Bergeron is Zherdev's equal offensively. I just don't see Bergeron as this great intangible player that you make him out to be and I've seen him play plenty of times.

BTW- Start a poll, see how many people would pick Bergeron before Zherdev and don't allow Bruins and Blue Jackets fans to vote.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Feb 27, 2002
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Montreal
Bruwinz37 said:
Hey, you've actually graduated from emoticons to actual text. Good job big guy!

Still no actual points to prove though I see.

Wasting too much text on a guy who is blindly pimping a player from his favorite team is not something I do very often anymore. The emoticons are an excellent time saver sometimes.

You've seen Bergeron play. You seem to have watched several players from the 2003 crop. No point will make you change your mind if you really want to believe Bergeron should be 1st overall.
 

Patty Ice

Straight to the Banc
Feb 27, 2002
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Bruwinz37 said:
What is your problem? Grow up, I made a full post where I laid out why I thought Bergeron was a better player. If you cannot find it after spending so many years on this board then that says a lot about your basic computer skills.

Stop baiting me.

"He is a more physical player, he is better defensively, his hockey sense is better and his first year NHL numbers were better. I have seen them both play many times and Bergeron is the better player."

Well laid out. Come on buddy?

If that's the case...I saw Cheechoo score many times therefore he is going to be a 50 goal scorer next year.
 

Bruwinz37

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
27,429
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Patty Ice XXX said:
"He is a more physical player, he is better defensively, his hockey sense is better and his first year NHL numbers were better. I have seen them both play many times and Bergeron is the better player."

Well laid out. Come on buddy?

If that's the case...I saw Cheechoo score many times therefore he is going to be a 50 goal scorer next year.

Refute what I said. Tell me where Staal excels and where Bergeron doesnt.
 

scout46

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Jun 2, 2002
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Still too soon. Still a good group. You could have pulled a name from the hat and come out with a good player that draft.
 

Hawker14

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Oct 27, 2004
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seems like the argument laid out is (excuse the terrible comparisons):

zherdev = lecavalier
bergeron = richards

to me, it's a personal preference of the type of player you'd prefer.
 

Bruwinz37

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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I think you guys fail to realize things like upside and potential. Is Patrice the better two-way player right now? sure he is, but that doesn't mean Zherdev won't develop a two way game.

Please dont misunderstand, I think Zherdev is a great player, dont let that fact get lost here. It is my opinion that Bergeron will be the better defensive forward throughout his career.

And their offensive talents aren't even close. 61 points in the AHL isn't anything to write home about, even R.J. Umberger (a professional rookie) managed to score 65 points on a comparable team

Comparable team? Sorry, but no where close. Also, Bergeron played the point on the PP for the P Bruins as they really didnt have a true PP QB. Umberger also played 12 more games. Again, I conceeded a long time ago that Zherdev will be the much better point producer.

. Bergeron will deliver the big hit? let's be real here, Bergeron has never and will probably never deliver a game changing hit, he's not that type of player

Well this is an easy way for you to say: "I have never really seen Bergeron play". Ask the Ottawa Senators if they think he lays big hits. The kid lays some big time body shots and plays a very physical game.

. He's not an exceptional penalty killer (i.e. Mike Richards) and while his hockey sense is very good for someone his age, it's not significantly better than Zherdev's, if at all.

He is a good PK guy who will get better. He killed penalties in the NHL, Richards hasnt so we will see.

Zherdev's offensive talents can't be denied. He has great speed, stickhandling ability, and a very good arsenal of shots. He's an elite offensive player and already capable of scoring close to a point per game in the NHL.

He may well be, but he hasnt yet. I will not deny, and never have, his offensive prowess. Please keep in mind I am not bashing Zherdev.
He was exceptional in the second half of the season and like has already been mentioned scored just 5 fewer points in 15 fewer games (i.e. he has a better PPG). Add to the fact that Zherdev played with significantly weaker linemates and I think it's pretty difficult to argue that Bergeron is Zherdev's equal offensively. I just don't see Bergeron as this great intangible player that you make him out to be and I've seen him play plenty of times.

Never said Bergeron was better offensively. Never even hinted at it.

BTW- Start a poll, see how many people would pick Bergeron before Zherdev and don't allow Bruins and Blue Jackets fans to vote.

I am sure Zherdev would win. Thats ok though. I do not deny what a great player he is, I just will take my chances with Bergeron.
 
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