If you were GM picking class of '03 now

[arnie]

How does Fleury deserve being mentionned among the best in this draft? What exactly did he do? Get to the NHL? With PIT goalies, they might have aswell picked someone off the street, so Fleury getting to the NHL doesn't mean much. I've said this somewhere before, but Fleury somewhat reminds me of a Montoya. Gets selected high based on his WJC, and then people start realizing that he wasn't what they thought he was. Sure Fleury has potential, but quite a few players selected in the 3rd 4th etc. rounds who have tons of potential but that means less and less as time passes after they have been drafted if they don't do much to atleast show progress. Guys like Lehtonen/Ward/Toivonen are blowing away the competition anywhere they play, Lunqvist is showing steady improvement in Europe and seems on the path to stardome, while Fleury keeps on dissapointing. Sure his AHL team wasnt that great, but Ward's Lowell was even worst and he took them to the playoffs and even won a round while playing amazing under pressure even though he was a rookie. Toivonen and Lehtonen duked it out in the semi-finals aswell, while Lunqvist won the SEL championship playing against NHL talent. Until Fleury shows us SOMETHING, there is no reason to mention him among the best in the draft.

Yiu have it exactly right. Fleury was so-so his last year of junior and less than so-so in the AHL. He wouldn't be in the top 10, let alone the top 3 at this point.

 

[AnThGrt]

Yiu have it exactly right. Fleury was so-so his last year of junior and less than so-so in the AHL. He wouldn't be in the top 10, let alone the top 3 at this point.

Yes he would because the potential is still there and he is still one of the quickest moving golies out there

 

[Jacob]

Kostitsyn is so underrated over here it's not even funny, give him time.I know, he hasn't produced quite well in stronger leagues.....but he still has a really big offensive upside.His offensive skills are unreals.

Some prospects take more time to developp.Especially european prospects.

You really don't make a convincing case for him. Just that his "offensive skills are unreal"? Not enough for me.

Lots of players in his draft class have equal skills and upside and HAVE produced more than Kostitsyn has so far.

 

[Chaos Giraffe]

Kostitsyn is so underrated over here it's not even funny, give him time.I know, he hasn't produced quite well in stronger leagues.....but he still has a really big offensive upside.His offensive skills are unreals.

Some prospects take more time to developp.Especially european prospects.

Potential after 2 years doesn't translate into retaining your draft position. Pavel Brendl still has all the offensive potential in the world, and yet, he's done nothing for like 6 years. Same deal with Fedor Fedorov.

Until Kostitsyn gets his points, he'll continue to fall.

 

[Puckhead]

This draft is proving to be so deep that it's in-evitable that players will be ranked too low in some people's eyes. Players that would be top 10 in other draft years maybe pushing the 2nd round in the '03 class!!! It's incredible at how deep this class was!!!

Your comments make a lot of sense when it comes to examining draft classes at draft time. This class could go down as the deepest in NHL history, right up there with the '79 draft. What people fail to see is that it will inevitably take 3-5 years to truly see how things play out. The '02 class was said to be 4 player deep, and so far that is not too far off the mark, but there will be some guys who reach their potential late, others who emerge out of nowhere and become stars. Let's give them time and enjoy the ride.

 

[hab 4ever]

I am a big fan of Patrice Bergeron. Still, I would not pick him in the top 5 of the 2003 entry draft. Top 10 ?? Definitely. IMO, you draft thinking : long-term and upside. I don't see any reasons to remove anyone of the top 4 (Fleury, Staal, Horton and Zherdev) out of the top 5. In fact, Dion Phaneuf would be the one rounding out my new top 5. Thanks to injuries, I understand that Michalek might lose a few spots, but I am still pretty high on him. Bergeron ranks from 6th to 9th IMO, depending on how you value Carter, Suter and Vanek. My top 9 would be :

1-Eric Staal
2-Nikolai Zherdev
3-Marc-André Fleury
4-Dion Phaneuf
5-Nathan Horton
6-Patrice Bergeron
7-Jeff Carter
8-Tomas Vanek
9-Ryan Suter

BTW, I really had a hard time choosing between Bergeron and Carter for no. 6.

 

[Bruwinz37]

So you'd take Bergeron over Crosby and Ovechkin ???

Of course not John. I was simply making the point that you cannot base everything on one playoff series. Bergeron has done more of proving himself at the NHL level. I have all the respect in the world for both Carter and Richards. I think they are terrific players, but of course I think very highly of Bergeron too. You made the argument that they owned him in the playoffs. First off, I didnt know this was the NBA and they were matched up against each other. Was someone shadowing Bergeron? Philly won the series of course, but they had a much, much better team. Providence had essentially one line, poor defense and a great goalie which is only why it was as close as it was. I am sorry I didnt get to see the series, but I was away on business at the time.

I think all three will be great players and only time will tell the truth. I still will contest that Bergeron's full year of great play in the NHL tells a lot more than one AHL playoff series.

 

[PanthersRule96]

Agreed yet i have to admit to what he said WJC's players get so overrated when doing good there

Rostislav Olesz? Perhaps the most underrated bluechip prospect out there, tore up the WJC and STILL isn't recognized as that great of a prospect.

 

[wedge]

He's played more games than Carter...


after his last surgery, they expect a full recovery. The past too times he did too much too soon and got himself in trouble.

yes, but what about the 2 years of development that are totally lost? at best, he is at the same level he was 2 years ago... while others have improved, Michalek didn't... simply because he didn'T play.

 

[Pure Rock Fury*]

I love threads like these. They always guarantee at least one good heated argument where guys stop making points and just start attacking each other. Fun to read, not fun to be in.

What's with the F for Bernier? From what I heard all last season, he didn't put up the points he did before, but he started playing a complete game. And in the playoffs he was a monster.

Dropping Michalek based on the injuries is a given. Even though he's supposedly completely healed now, there's no way anybody can have the same confidence in him now than they did before. Even the "almighty" Crosby would probably drop a couple spots if he had three knee surgeries and hasn't played in two years.

 

[McDeepika]

Of course not John. I was simply making the point that you cannot base everything on one playoff series. Bergeron has done more of proving himself at the NHL level. I have all the respect in the world for both Carter and Richards. I think they are terrific players, but of course I think very highly of Bergeron too. You made the argument that they owned him in the playoffs. First off, I didnt know this was the NBA and they were matched up against each other. Was someone shadowing Bergeron? Philly won the series of course, but they had a much, much better team. Providence had essentially one line, poor defense and a great goalie which is only why it was as close as it was. I am sorry I didnt get to see the series, but I was away on business at the time.

I think all three will be great players and only time will tell the truth. I still will contest that Bergeron's full year of great play in the NHL tells a lot more than one AHL playoff series.

How about 1 AHL playoff series and great seasons in junior. You make it sound like Richards and Carter only played well for this 1 series

 

[Kirk- NEHJ]

What exactly has Bergeron won or proven to be labelled "that winner that teams die for" other than a WJC championship with a stacked team, which is something that Zherdev has as well? It's not like he led Providence to the promised land or anything this season, despite playing in front of one of the AHL's best goaltenders.

Patrice Bergeron's reputation for being a big-game player began in junior, when his Bathurst Titan nearly knocked off the heavily favored Halifax Mooseheads in the '03 QMJHL semis, pushing them to 7 games and notching more than an assist per game in the postseason.

Bergeron was also a member of Team Canada's Mike Babcock-coached senior World Championship gold medal team in the spring of '04. So, that's two international gold medals (WC '04, WJC '05) under his belt and both before age 20. If that isn't praiseworthy, I don't know what is.

Reference your second point, Providence was the final team to even make the '05 AHL playoffs, so one could argue that by helping them to the conference finals before losing to the eventual Calder Cup champion Phantoms, Bergeron was indeed a clutch player who helped his team advance a lot farther than expected by eliminating two higher seeds in Lowell and Hartford.

I think trying to downplay Bergeron's winning credentials does him a major disservice. Sure- Zherdev on paper is a much bigger talent with a better draft pedigree, but get back to me on what he has accomplished compared to Bergeron since their draft year, and I'm not sure you'll have as much to talk about.

I'm not dissing Zherdev as much as I am saying that Bergeron has been a revelation and will only get better. Will he be better than Zherdev offensively? Probably not, but it isn't a stretch to compare the two favorably. The gulf between the two is not as wide as some would think.

 

[ZombieMatt]

What's with the F for Bernier? From what I heard all last season, he didn't put up the points he did before, but he started playing a complete game. And in the playoffs he was a monster.

I asked the same thing, no comment.

Bernier had a very good developmental season. People hear "Bernier" and get caught up in a weight issue from two years ago that is completely non-existent at this point and immediately judge. Or they look at the decline in point totals and don't realize the enormous change in coaching philosophy that had taken place, and the defensive-minded nature of the entire Wildcats team this past year.

In the playoffs, Bernier was an absolute beast. I know the rep he has from the playoffs on HF, mostly because I am the most likely source of that, and I'll stand by my assessment. His performance was Primeau-esque from the 2003-playoffs. Watching him and Guillame Latendresse go at it in the second round was an absolute treat to watch.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Rostislav Olesz? Perhaps the most underrated bluechip prospect out there, tore up the WJC and STILL isn't recognized as that great of a prospect.

HAHAH dude when will your Olesz love stop. Agree though is he a very nice prospect. It doesnt matter what we think of him but what he actually does.

 

[PanthersRule96]

HAHAH dude when will your Olesz love stop. Agree though is he a very nice prospect. It doesnt matter what we think of him but what he actually does.

lol, that was my first post in liek 3 months i believe at least, that ive talked about Olesz being good haha.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Am I the only one who thinks that Bergeron's great year was a bit of a fluke? Sure, based on performances thusfar, I would put him in the top 10 of 2003, but I can't shake the feeling that he's going to drop off a bit.
And, as a Sabres fan, I would like to say that I'd much rather have Vanek than Horton. I know that some of these players have had great junior years and stuff like that, but I cannot understand why Vanek is dropping as much as he is. He was second in the AHL in goals, which I think is more impressive than putting up great junior numbers.

 

[bonzaiman]

I gurantee you a guy like Eric Fehr will be a larger offensive force, then a guy like Bergeron. Its hillarious to see you all put Fehr so low when he has had two 50 goal seasons back to back, has been pretty much been the best WHL player, and is becoming a physical force. The guy has been putting on pounds and has the tools to be a premeir goal scorer in the league. By the way, Zherdev is not anywhere near a Kovalchuk, I'm an Ovechkin fan and I'm not even sure he is near Kovalchuk, and I know he is better then Zherdev. Anyway, talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Kaizer]

Brendl had better record than Fehr. It means nothing, Imo.

 

[bonzaiman]

I would argue Fehr is a more complete player than Brendl was. Fehr can play defense and can hit, something Brendl never showed. Besides that there is also the size factor, however this is just my opinion which I'm sure many differ with.

 

[Jacob]

I certainly don't think Fehr has shown enough to be ranked ahead of Bergeron, if that's what you're implying. But he definitely should have been picked a bit higher if the draft were done over again.

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

Am I the only one who thinks that Bergeron's great year was a bit of a fluke? Sure, based on performances thusfar, I would put him in the top 10 of 2003, but I can't shake the feeling that he's going to drop off a bit.
And, as a Sabres fan, I would like to say that I'd much rather have Vanek than Horton. I know that some of these players have had great junior years and stuff like that, but I cannot understand why Vanek is dropping as much as he is. He was second in the AHL in goals, which I think is more impressive than putting up great junior numbers.

I'm with you for Bergeron and his rookie season...I just can't see him having more then 60 points in a season...

 

[Archijerej]

I would take Wes Walz ahead of Zherdev. Walz is so much more complete player.

 

[ZombieMatt]

I would take Wes Walz ahead of Zherdev. Walz is so much more complete player.

And he's proven.

 

[Kaizer]

Only during 93-94 season Walz has the same PPG as Zherdev. But Zherdev played with weaker team, he was 4 years younger and it was his first season at N.A. that he spent without any preseason.

 

[Archijerej]

Only during 93-94 season Walz has the same PPG as Zherdev. But Zherdev played with weaker team, he was 4 years younger and it was his first season at N.A. that he spent without any preseason.

tssssst....Kaizer, we were joking