If you had to choose, who would you want? Gardiner or Myers?

[HonestHockey*]

Rielly makes better plays and smarter decisions than Gardiner, and then produces so much worse results? Makes sense, just like most of your posts.

No point in discussing with someone with such an obvious agenda though.

Worse results? Explain that.

 

[diceman934]

Lol here we go. Black and white and you still wanna say it's wrong.

No I am say that a player who plays more minutes in total has his percentage of his TOI used against top players reduced by the amount of his TOI on PP etc.

Ehrhoff played more PK, PP and ES minutes and has a higher QOC then Myers. Using percentages skews the data slightly as it is measure as a total of the amount of ice time.

I am also still waiting for your proof that I stated that I saw Nylander play several time.

 

[HonestHockey*]

No I am say that a player who plays more minutes in total has his percentage of his TOI used against top players reduced by the amount of his TOI on PP etc.

Ehrhoff played more PK, PP and ES minutes and has a higher QOC then Myers. Using percentages skews the data slightly as it is measure as a total of the amount of ice time.

I am also still waiting for your proof that I stated that I saw Nylander play several time.

Based on 5 on 5. So you're wrong.

I'll find the Nylander post. It was based on a published report that he feel entitled and your comment was along the lines of seeing him play lots and they are wrong.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Worse results? Explain that.

Well worse corsi numbers, much worse GA/60, very similar production, easier minutes (one of the highest numbers of off zone starts on team), similar PDO etc.

Worse results. Pretty self-explanatory.

 

[HonestHockey*]

Well worse corsi numbers, much worse GA/60, very similar production, easier minutes (one of the highest numbers of off zone starts on team), similar PDO etc.

Worse results. Pretty self-explanatory.

Are we cherry picking stats? Ok my turn. Gardiner had 7 more games and 3 and 1/2 more mins a game than Rielly. His QoT was the exact same as Rielly. His QoT forwards were first Raymond then Kessel. Riellys were Raymond then Kadri. Oh and did I mention Gardiner had 42 mins of PP times more than Rielly?

 

[diceman934]

Based on 5 on 5. So you're wrong.

I'll find the Nylander post. It was based on a published report that he feel entitled and your comment was along the lines of seeing him play lots and they are wrong.

QoC TOI% Measured by Total of on ice %

Look at some forwards and you will see a huge difference in their QOC and their QoC TOI% and where they rank league wise.

Here is the post that you think I said I watched him.....did you leave your glasses some where?
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I wanted Jake, but wow we got a beauty.

In my opinion he will play Center for us. Puck hog, not a chance, he likes to set up goals and score, against players his own age he dominated. Kid has some swagger and backs it up with skill. I would like to see him in the AHL this coming year and see what he can do after this first 30 games. He will be on the WJC team and it is there where we will all get to see him and his skill set on the world stage.

As for character issues that some on here spout off about, piff.....until we see them as part of the Leafs organization I dismiss them.....This kid has a very high compete level and at times it manifest it's self as attitude.

You posted this beauty.

You get to a lot of Swedish games huh?

I guess you have an issue with reading as well as making stuff up!

 

[HonestHockey*]

QoC TOI% Measured by Total of on ice %

Look at some forwards and you will see a huge difference in their QOC and their QoC TOI% and where they rank league wise.

Here is the post that you think I said I watched him.....did you leave your glasses some where?
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I wanted Jake, but wow we got a beauty.

In my opinion he will play Center for us. Puck hog, not a chance, he likes to set up goals and score, against players his own age he dominated. Kid has some swagger and backs it up with skill. I would like to see him in the AHL this coming year and see what he can do after this first 30 games. He will be on the WJC team and it is there where we will all get to see him and his skill set on the world stage.

As for character issues that some on here spout off about, piff.....until we see them as part of the Leafs organization I dismiss them.....This kid has a very high compete level and at times it manifest it's self as attitude.

You posted this beauty.




I guess you have an issue with reading as well as making stuff up!

Yes TOI 5 on 5. Not sure why you're missing the 5 on 5. Has nothing to do with PP or SH.

The bold part. How do you know? Stat lines? Lol. YouTube clips? Lol. Gimme a break. You always post like you've seen these guys a million times.

 

[diceman934]

Yes TOI 5 on 5. Not sure why you're missing the 5 on 5. Has nothing to do with PP or SH.

The bold part. How do you know? Stat lines? Lol. YouTube clips? Lol. Gimme a break. You always post like you've seen these guys a million times.

QOC TOI%-The quality of competition a player faces, as measured by the average time on ice of the opposing players he faced

You were wrong again....I never posted that I had saw him play.

Look at the players that I posted that I have see play a lot....they all have something in common. Some I have coached even.


Now either apologize or go away!

 

[HonestHockey*]

You were wrong again....I never posted that I had saw him play.

Look at the players that I posted that I have see play a lot....they all have something in common. Some I have coached even.


Now either apologize or go away!

Correct. Myers faces a greater quality of competition than any other Sabre defensemen 5 on 5.

Puck hog? Not a chance. Your words right there in black and white. How do you know this without seeing him play. Again you talk like this about tons of players. How in the flying .... Do you know?

And yeah I'm sure you've coached them

 

[Duffman955]

Bottom line , Myers the worst dman in the nhl when you factor in contract

 

[HonestHockey*]

How about Gardiner or Michael Del Zotto.

Identical player and nobody wants Del Zotto. Speaks volumes about the style of player. Leafs will wise up. Or sign Del Zotto lol.

 

[HonestHockey*]

Bottom line , Myers the worst dman in the nhl when you factor in contract

Stuck on the worst team in the NHL.

 

[diceman934]

Correct. Myers faces a greater quality of competition than any other Sabre defensemen 5 on 5.

Puck hog? Not a chance. Your words right there in black and white. How do you know this without seeing him play. Again you talk like this about tons of players. How in the flying .... Do you know?

And yeah I'm sure you've coached them

Wrong I posted the link that proved you were wrong...

As well as I'm still waiting for your proof that I posted that I watched Nylander play......

 

[HonestHockey*]

Wrong I posted the link that proved you were wrong...

As well as I'm still waiting for your proof that I posted that I watched Nylander play......

Wrong and I posted the link proving you wrong.

And I just told you that, in your words he's not a puck hog. Only way to know is if you've seen him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Leafs convert Gardiner back to fwd, then it is Gardiner and it will not be close. But as a D, it's a toss up. Both Myers and Gardiner are defensive sieves.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No to Tyler Myers, we do not need a soft giant. I watched him up close for a year and he was a soft D man then and still is today, add in his very limited hockey I Q and you have a big soft D man who does not think the game well at a very high Cap hit.....No thanks.....He is one Hound that I have little interest in.

You think Gardiner plays tough or are they both soft defencmen? Just want to see if you are being consistent in your arguments here. Me personally I think both play as soft as butter. Neither will ever be known for playing physical.

Also trying to follow along with you and Honest's discussion here, and the only defenceman on the Leafs to play softer competition last season was Ranger and Rielly.

Granberg
Dion
Gunnar
Franson
Gleason

All played a higher QOC than Jake did. This is a fact.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

 

[Menzinger]

How can anyone say Gardiner vs. Myers isnt close? There are some huge homer posts in this thread

They are the same age and both players have been very inconsistent. How can people say Gardiner is only going to get better but Myers has developed as much as he is going to. Yes Gards looked great the last month of the season but he struggled most of the rest of the season, Myers looked great for parts of the season and not so great other large parts of it just like Jake. Both have potential to be top pairing Dmen or the potential to plateau and stay where they are now.

Possession wise, Gardiner has a considerably higher corsi rating. Myers certainly may pull everything together, but I'm very happy with Gardiner is right now, and so the choice is clear.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Possession wise, Gardiner has a considerably higher corsi rating. Myers certainly may pull everything together, but I'm very happy with Gardiner is right now, and so the choice is clear.

I can see arguments for both, Myers has proven much more in his career to what Gardiner has at their both their best, both are 24 also.

So the choice is not clear, if Myers regains his form, he has played at a much higher level than what Gardiner has ever shown thus far in his career.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

The comparisons always have to be apples to apples.

Myers plays the most minutes for a defensemen against the highest QoC on his team. Any young player may struggle with that. Gardiner plays his mins against the second weakest QoC on the team and struggles with that.

And Gardiner is no-where near good defensively.

Both are different type of defenceman as well. Myers is more of an all-round type while Gardiner is more of a potential top flight offensive defenceman. I'm thinking he could develop that the Campbell/ Yandle-level endurance. Nevertheless, I'd say that Myers has an edge over Gardiner due to previous production.

We'll see, though.

 

[rumman]

Bottom line , Myers the worst dman in the nhl when you factor in contract

followed very closely by Phaneuf................

 

[agropop]

The choice is very clear.

 

[TMLegend]

I'd take Gardiner right now. Myers has the potential to surpass him though. If Myers ever puts it all together he'll be a do it all #1D. Gardiner likely caps out as a puck moving #3D.

 

[diceman934]

You think Gardiner plays tough or are they both soft defencmen? Just want to see if you are being consistent in your arguments here. Me personally I think both play as soft as butter. Neither will ever be known for playing physical.

Also trying to follow along with you and Honest's discussion here, and the only defenceman on the Leafs to play softer competition last season was Ranger and Rielly.

Granberg
Dion
Gunnar
Franson
Gleason

All played a higher QOC than Jake did. This is a fact.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

I have not commented on Gardiner so debate away with yourself.....

 

[Todd Skill]

Got a good look at Myers internationally last year, not a player I'm interested in.

This