Proposal: If W.Nylander was on the market.

[GIN ANTONIC]

Wrong...... they will try for alex... this is common knowledge around leafs inside world...
Shultz has been mentioned.
Brodie is high on radar.
Tanev as well. Leafs know one or maybe 2 forwards are gone for room here ..while alex seems like a dream it is possible with some reorganization. Shultz would be a great 4/5 guy but they cant afford both. Honestly brodie seems like the best fit

1. How in the hell can Toronto even consider adding AP? First off, he probably wants to stay in STL and they have no reason not to pay him. STL is a top team coming off a cup win. This isn't Tavares and the Isles where he wanted to come home and the team has shaky ownership, arena problems, middling roster. Secondly, in what world can TOR afford to pay him? He's getting like $9 million or so isn't he? You're going to have 5 players making almost $50 million? That's ludicrous. You'd have to gut the rest of the team more than you already will need to this offseason. Leafs don't have the depth to support that. Even if you could afford it for 1 year, Freddie needs a new deal in a year. Rielly needs a new deal the year after. Both will get raises or you let them walk and then you need to find a top 10 starting goalie and another first pairing defenseman? It makes no sense at all.

2. Leafs need a top pairing defenseman to play with Rielly. Schultz isn't that. He's not close.

Rielly - ????
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Sandin

3. Brodie is an LHD who can play the right side but to me that's not an ideal fit. Calgary likely lets Hamonic walk (I see him going to WPG for obvious fit and personal preference) so I would think they look to keep Brodie.

4. Tanev I mentioned as the number 1 target the leafs should be looking at so.... what was your point of mentioning him?

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

Still think Minnesota needs to add a first round pick at the very least a second

Haha is this serious? Minnesota isn't even a fit. Minnesota doesn't need another winger or have room for one unless they trade parise or Zuccarello which isn't happening.

Minnesota isn't trading Dumba for Nylander, another winger. The Minnesota fan who said Minnesota is a match needs to stop. Minnesota has no room in top 4.

Dumba or brodin are being used for a top d

 

[Nolan11]

Lmao. You'd be extremely lucky to give away Burns for free at this point.

Wow, that is uncalled for. Burns is still a beast and would garner several suitors if he were on the block. One of which, is apparently not you.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

Minnesota makes a lot of sense. Dumba is the right age and his game has matured the proper way. He could play with Reilly or Muzzin. Obviously he has his cannon of a shot and plays with grit.

Pateryn would also shore up that right side, especially if there are still questions about Holl. He is solid enough to play PK and also bigger 5v5 minutes for periods of time, although you don't want him in your top-4 for a full season.

If Leafs need a scoring wing back for Nylander, Donato is cheap and currently buried in Minnesota, despite having strong analytics and 5v5 points. He plays both wings.

To make it work, Toronto should send back a bigger forward contract to drop cap and maybe a middling D prospect for Minnesota's farm. Wild could even retain some of Pateryn's salary.

Nylander + Johnsson + middling D prospect

Dumba + Pateryn (1 million retained) + Donato

Did you even do any research about wild? On top of Nylander, you have Minnesota accepting Andrea's Johnson . Minnesota has only 15 to 20 mil in cap room & isn't taking on anymore wingers especially a 3 mil one like Andreas Johnson to play 4th line.

Minnesota already needs to move out 1 player, either of Hartman, donato or Greenway

Minnesota WInger lines will be
Fiala, Kaprizov
Parise, Kaprizov
Kunin, Foligno
Greenway, donato/ Hartman

 

[Dekes For Days]

Burns is still a beast and would garner several suitors if he were on the block.

He's 35, declining, and signed for 8m until he's 40. Any team that traded for him would instantly regret it.

 

[rent free]

Minnesota makes a lot of sense. Dumba is the right age and his game has matured the proper way. He could play with Reilly or Muzzin. Obviously he has his cannon of a shot and plays with grit.

Pateryn would also shore up that right side, especially if there are still questions about Holl. He is solid enough to play PK and also bigger 5v5 minutes for periods of time, although you don't want him in your top-4 for a full season.

If Leafs need a scoring wing back for Nylander, Donato is cheap and currently buried in Minnesota, despite having strong analytics and 5v5 points. He plays both wings.

To make it work, Toronto should send back a bigger forward contract to drop cap and maybe a middling D prospect for Minnesota's farm. Wild could even retain some of Pateryn's salary.

Nylander + Johnsson + middling D prospect

Dumba + Pateryn (1 million retained) + Donato

Not that good of an offer but much better than the offers from avalanche fans. That's for sure.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

Not that good of an offer but much better than the offers from avalanche fans. That's for sure.

Again read the board. Minnesota doesn't need another winger so not happening with Minnesota taking on one let alone 2

 

[Dekes For Days]

Rantanen quite clearly is on another level.

This season? How about last 3 years? Rantanen blows nylander out of the water in everything.

Marner is at a similar level to Rantanen's. Nylander is a step below.

Rants is comparable or slightly better than Marner. Nylander is not at the same level.

Now Nylander is better than Rants?

NHL Careers:

ES P/60

Rantanen: 2.18
Nylander: 2.15

ES P1/60

Rantanen: 1.66
Nylander: 1.63

PP P/60

Rantanen: 5.77
Nylander: 5.39

PP P1/60

Rantanen: 4.26
Nylander: 4.30

Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear.

 

[McVespa99]

Nurse + 1st?

Although Oilers would have to move salary

You have got to be kidding. Im not a big Nurse fan but that is waaaaay too much for Nylander. In a cap world I would not give up the 1st and a crappy prospect for Nylander let alone a top 4 dman.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

NHL Careers:

ES P/60

Rantanen: 2.18
Nylander: 2.15

ES P1/60

Rantanen: 1.66
Nylander: 1.63

PP P/60

Rantanen: 5.77
Nylander: 5.39

PP P1/60

Rantanen: 4.26
Nylander: 4.30

Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear.

There has to be a point where Leafs fans simply start watching hockey again right? These posts are so beyond infuriating at this point. Every single player comparison leads to responses like this from Leafs fans as if it’s the answer to all success. The Leafs have all these analytics mastered and yet have not one a playoff series since the invention of high definition television.

Come on. I’m a huge advocate of using stats to gauge projections but William Nylander couldn’t hold Rantanen’s jockstrap. Nylander has a career high 61 points (in a full 82 game season too). Rantanen had 87 points in 74 games last year lol. Plus an 84 point season the year prior. He’s also a phenomenal defensive player.

Nylander’s a great player but this is like comparing Matthews to Boeser. It just isn’t close.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There has to be a point where Leafs fans simply start watching hockey again right?

Leaf fans watch hockey just fine, thanks.

Nylander has a career high 61 points (in a full 82 game season too). Rantanen had 87 points in 74 games last year lol.

Yes, issues with how you phrased this aside, Rantanen does get a ridiculous amount of PP time. That doesn't make him a better player.

Nylander’s a great player but this is like comparing Matthews to Boeser. It just isn’t close.

It is nothing like that. Matthews blows Boeser out of the water in everything, while as you can see, Nylander is in fact quite close to Rantanen.

 

[1865]

I'd kick the tyres on Ghost and Frost, but i don't think the dollars would work anyway.

 

[TFHockey]

Leaf fans watch hockey just fine, thanks.

Yes, issues with how you phrased this aside, Rantanen does get a ridiculous amount of PP time. That doesn't make him a better player.

It is nothing like that. Matthews blows Boeser out of the water in everything, while as you can see, Nylander is in fact quite close to Rantanen.

I'd have Nylander on my team for sure, and his contract is much more favorable than Rantanens. However if you had to choose between the two I *think* most hockey fans outside of Toronto would choose Rantanen. Just my opinion.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Leaf fans watch hockey just fine, thanks.

Yes, issues with how you phrased this aside, Rantanen does get a ridiculous amount of PP time. That doesn't make him a better player.

It is nothing like that. Matthews blows Boeser out of the water in everything, while as you can see, Nylander is in fact quite close to Rantanen.

What do you mean “as you can see Nylander is close to Rantanen”? All you did was post 5v5 p/60 numbers lol. If that was the one and only metric to determine how good a hockey player was I would tell you that Andre Burakovsky is better than Matthews but I’m not delusional enough to do that.

2019/20 5v5 points/60
Burakovsky: 2.55
Matthews: 2.34
Kadri: 2.33
Nylander: 2.32

Over the last three combined seasons:
Nylander: 147 points in 204 games.
Rantanen: 212 points in 197 games.

This is beyond laughable. Especially when Mikko is far, far, far superior defensively.

 

[Jerkbait]

1. How in the hell can Toronto even consider adding AP? First off, he probably wants to stay in STL and they have no reason not to pay him. STL is a top team coming off a cup win. This isn't Tavares and the Isles where he wanted to come home and the team has shaky ownership, arena problems, middling roster. Secondly, in what world can TOR afford to pay him? He's getting like $9 million or so isn't he? You're going to have 5 players making almost $50 million? That's ludicrous. You'd have to gut the rest of the team more than you already will need to this offseason. Leafs don't have the depth to support that. Even if you could afford it for 1 year, Freddie needs a new deal in a year. Rielly needs a new deal the year after. Both will get raises or you let them walk and then you need to find a top 10 starting goalie and another first pairing defenseman? It makes no sense at all.

2. Leafs need a top pairing defenseman to play with Rielly. Schultz isn't that. He's not close.

Rielly - ????
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Sandin

3. Brodie is an LHD who can play the right side but to me that's not an ideal fit. Calgary likely lets Hamonic walk (I see him going to WPG for obvious fit and personal preference) so I would think they look to keep Brodie.

4. Tanev I mentioned as the number 1 target the leafs should be looking at so.... what was your point of mentioning him?

Well not really. We know there has been interst from the leafs camp about looking at AP come July. This came up at trade deadline time. This may be why the leafs didnt look to upgrade D then. Alex as far back as October has expressed he was less than thrilled about signing justin Faulk. Toronto is his home town. Alot could depend if playoffs are canceled all together. They would dump a forward or 2 not named AM marner or tavares to make this work..

Justin Schulz would be a very good addition to the leafs . Can play up a and down lineup. Is he a true #2 , NO. He would be the best PP guy the leafs have though. Right handed. Cup winner. Great 3/4/5 guy.

Brodie. Very realistic. There was already a trade for Brodie from the leafs. They wanted him. They will peruse him in off season. Calgary agreed to trade him then why not now?

 

[Dekes For Days]

What do you mean “as you can see Nylander is close to Rantanen”? All you did was post 5v5 p/60 numbers lol.

Actually, I posted ES and PP production and primary production over significant samples...

To which you have replied with raw points...

If that was the one and only metric to determine how good a hockey player was I would tell you that Andre Burakovsky is better than Matthews

Ah yes; small samples in specifically one stat that doesn't even account for all ES scoring, featuring a select few individuals with inflated OISH%s. What a great measure of a set of stats.

NHL careers:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.71
Burakovsky: 2.09

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.34
Burakovsky: 1.53

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.47
Burakovsky: 3.80

PP P1/60

Matthews: 4.91
Burakovsky: 2.31

Not even remotely close.

Especially when Mikko is far, far, far superior defensively.

He's not.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Well not really. We know there has been interst from the leafs camp about looking at AP come July. This came up at trade deadline time. This may be why the leafs didnt look to upgrade D then. Alex as far back as October has expressed he was less than thrilled about signing justin Faulk. Toronto is his home town. Alot could depend if playoffs are canceled all together. They would dump a forward or 2 not named AM marner or tavares to make this work..

Justin Schulz would be a very good addition to the leafs . Can play up a and down lineup. Is he a true #2 , NO. He would be the best PP guy the leafs have though. Right handed. Cup winner. Great 3/4/5 guy.

Brodie. Very realistic. There was already a trade for Brodie from the leafs. They wanted him. They will peruse him in off season. Calgary agreed to trade him then why not now?

AP is all speculation right now. Maybe the Leafs get him but there are quite a few hurdles in making that happen as I mentioned in my last reply which you didn't address at all.

Schultz isn't a true #2... or a 3. He had a very bad season this year. Yes, he was injured for some of it but when he did play he was bad. He also missed a ton of time last year... and the year before. He's a huge question mark with regards to his on ice ability as well as his ability to stay healthy. Also wasn't Toronto like a top 5-10 team in the league for power play goals and conversion rate? Do they really need to acquire someone to bolster that or should they instead look for someone who can defend and improve their bottom 10 penalty kill?

Brodie... sure maybe the Leafs get him. I think Tanev is still a better fit and a safer bet even despite injury concerns. Brodie also like, almost died on the ice this year in practice so I dunno if that's super comforting. Either way, Brodie is inconsistent to say the least and is someone who absolutely needs to mesh well with his partner to succeed. When he was with Gio he's a good player, when he was away with him he could be awful. Tanev is a safer bet in terms of playing style and really more of what Toronto needs I would think. Tanev is from Toronto as well right, so if you want to play that hometown angle for AP and Brodie it probably works better for Tanev who actually grew up IN the city.

Anyway, there's a ton of uncertainty at this point with just about everything hockey related. You can put a million players on your wish list but if you look critically at which ones make the most sense then the list shortens a fair bit. You might be right in your guesses. Maybe I will be in mine, but you can't say that my points aren't valid.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Actually, I posted ES and PP production and primary production over significant samples...

To which you have replied with raw points...

Ah yes; small samples in specifically one stat that doesn't even account for all ES scoring, featuring a select few individuals with inflated OISH%s. What a great measure of a set of stats.

NHL careers:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.71
Burakovsky: 2.09

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.34
Burakovsky: 1.53

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.47
Burakovsky: 3.80

PP P1/60

Matthews: 4.91
Burakovsky: 2.31

Not even remotely close.

He's not.

If you are trolling, I applaud you.
If you are serious, I applaud you further.

 

[Chayos]

You have got to be kidding. Im not a big Nurse fan but that is waaaaay too much for Nylander. In a cap world I would not give up the 1st and a crappy prospect for Nylander let alone a top 4 dman.

It's really a moot points since the Leafs don't need a LD. I do agree that a 1st is to much to add, but you are greatly undervaluing Nylander. He would be a great deal at under 7 million and would sit nicely on the wing with one of our great centers. The issue is our defence is just getting it's head above water after years of being bad while we waited for them to mature. In a couple of years maybe we can relook at things, but right now Klefbom is too injury prone to part with Nurse.

 

[Jerkbait]

AP is all speculation right now. Maybe the Leafs get him but there are quite a few hurdles in making that happen as I mentioned in my last reply which you didn't address at all.

Schultz isn't a true #2... or a 3. He had a very bad season this year. Yes, he was injured for some of it but when he did play he was bad. He also missed a ton of time last year... and the year before. He's a huge question mark with regards to his on ice ability as well as his ability to stay healthy. Also wasn't Toronto like a top 5-10 team in the league for power play goals and conversion rate? Do they really need to acquire someone to bolster that or should they instead look for someone who can defend and improve their bottom 10 penalty kill?

Brodie... sure maybe the Leafs get him. I think Tanev is still a better fit and a safer bet even despite injury concerns. Brodie also like, almost died on the ice this year in practice so I dunno if that's super comforting. Either way, Brodie is inconsistent to say the least and is someone who absolutely needs to mesh well with his partner to succeed. When he was with Gio he's a good player, when he was away with him he could be awful. Tanev is a safer bet in terms of playing style and really more of what Toronto needs I would think. Tanev is from Toronto as well right, so if you want to play that hometown angle for AP and Brodie it probably works better for Tanev who actually grew up IN the city.

Anyway, there's a ton of uncertainty at this point with just about everything hockey related. You can put a million players on your wish list but if you look critically at which ones make the most sense then the list shortens a fair bit. You might be right in your guesses. Maybe I will be in mine, but you can't say that my points aren't valid.

Sure lots of uncertainty. I know they will make a stab for AP. They may get lucky ...they can and will make room. Chances?? Maybe 25 percent
..brodie seems like best fit and they wanted and had him already if it wanst for kadri... tanev not a bad fit either... Shultz if price is right would be solid . Great PP guys. Underrated in his own end. Had a bad year but he has swings he can play... maybe they get 2 d men....one thing is for sure the D situation will be addressed at some point

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Actually, I posted ES and PP production and primary production over significant samples...

To which you have replied with raw points...

Ah yes; small samples in specifically one stat that doesn't even account for all ES scoring, featuring a select few individuals with inflated OISH%s. What a great measure of a set of stats.

NHL careers:

ES P/60

Matthews: 2.71
Burakovsky: 2.09

ES P1/60

Matthews: 2.34
Burakovsky: 1.53

PP P/60

Matthews: 6.47
Burakovsky: 3.80

PP P1/60

Matthews: 4.91
Burakovsky: 2.31

Not even remotely close.

He's not.

I really don’t see an argument for Nylander being, as good, or better than Rantanen.

With no injuries, Rantanen was on pace for his 3rd consecutive 80 to 80+ point season. Nylander was drafted a year before Rantanen and hasn’t touched that, even in his best season this year.

Mikko’s style of play is also conducive to playoff success. Elite size and vision allow him to find ways to produce in that kind of tight-checking hockey. Believe it, or not, it was Rantanen, not MacKinnon who led the Avs in playoff scoring last year.

That being said, Nylander is an excellent top-6 forward, who I’d love to have on the Avalanche. And as I said previously in the thread, I’d give up a lot to get him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I really don’t see an argument for Nylander being, as good, or better than Rantanen.

I just showed you one. I can't imagine Nylander is a candidate to be traded at this point.

With no injuries, Rantanen was on pace for his 3rd consecutive 80 to 80+ point season. Nylander was drafted a year before Rantanen and hasn’t touched that, even in his best season this year.

Rantanen gets a ridiculous amount of PP time, especially in comparison to Nylander, which creates significant differences in raw points.

Mikko’s style of play is also conducive to playoff success. Elite size and vision allow him to find ways to produce in that kind of tight-checking hockey.

I thought the Nylander myths ended when he was a league leader in net front shots and goals this season. Nylander has extremely underrated strength.

 

[Chayos]

You have got to be kidding. Im not a big Nurse fan but that is waaaaay too much for Nylander. In a cap world I would not give up the 1st and a crappy prospect for Nylander let alone a top 4 dman.

It's really a moot points since the Leafs don't need a LD. I do agree that a 1st is to much to add, but you are greatly undervaluing Nylander. He would be a great deal at under 7 million and would sit nicely on the wing with one of our great centers. The issue is our defence is just getting it's head above water after years of being bad while we waited for them to mature. In a couple of years maybe we can relook at things, but right now Klefbom is too injury prone to part with Nurse.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I just showed you one. I can't imagine Nylander is a candidate to be traded at this point.

Rantanen gets a ridiculous amount of PP time, especially in comparison to Nylander, which creates significant differences in raw points.

I thought the Nylander myths ended when he was a league leader in net front shots and goals this season. Nylander has extremely underrated strength.

I never said Nylander wasn’t strong, just that Mikko’s style of game has proven to be effective in the playoffs.

Listen, none of what I’m saying is a knock against Nylander. I like him a lot.

But, given the choice as to who I would take on my team, it would be Rantanen.

 

[Dekes For Days]

But, given the choice as to who I would take on my team, it would be Rantanen.

That's fine. He's just not "on another level", as some suggested.

The main takeaway is that these players are viewed similarly by their teams. Leafs aren't letting Nylander go, especially after this past year, if they aren't getting great value and filling a big need.