If the Plan Isn't to Rebuild

[achtungbaby]

It's pretty hard to argue that this team isn't in need of a complete rebuild. Damien Cox said it best, "There is no other option than to strip these team right down to the foundation and build from scratch.

However, if the rebuild is going to be passed on there are at least two players I would move off of this team.

1) Trade Dion Phaneuf for a strong 1st line centre with size. I think I also read earlier this week that if you are going to win you have to be strong at centre. The Leafs lack depth at this position and haven't had a true No. 1 centre since Mats Sundin left town. It's also beneficial to have strong centres because they can be moved to the wings if needed. The same cannot be said of a talented winger.

2) Get rid of David Clarkson. Man has this guy been a flop. I don't care if we get a bag of used pucks and a washing machine for this guy. He's taking up way too much cap space for a player who is a 3rd liner at best. Get rid of him for whatever teams will give for him.

Sorry I don't really have more details. I can't see this ending in anything less than a complete rebuild.

Hard to see another team trading us their first line center for Dion. It's also hard to see us getting rid of clarkson without eating salary. We're probably stuck with him.

 

[pucky]

1. There will never be a true rebuild with this ownership, if it hasn't happend in the past 20 years what makes you think it will happen now? I expect nonis job is on the line if this team doesn't make the playoffs this season so I firmly expect him to make moves that will involve giving away picks and prospects for a short term shot to get us to the playoffs. I also expect this team doesn't make his playoffs and nonis is fired and a guy like hunter is named gm going forward, I expect the same thing from him too because he has to toe the line with ownership.

Everything above is true. They are probably more inept than most organizations, also. They know profits/revenues are coming in regardless of how much of a failure the hockey operations are.

Its a completely different ownership group?

The same mentality.

Gotta love this management's plan last off-season.

With the EPIC FAILURE that was last year, they still ****ing decide to stand pat .... I don't care what anyone says, that's what they did. Shuffling around the bottom-6 and flipping Gunnar for Polak is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the significant changes that this team needed. NONIS, SERIOUSLY MAN? Getting out-shot, out-possessed and outplayed every night and ending the year losing 12 of the last 14 games, was that really not enough to tell you that this team SUCKS??? God ****ing damnit man it's no wonder why your nickname is "Nonuts." Here's what's what, we better ****ing start selling by the trade deadline, there is literally NOTHING else that is a viable option.

'With the EPIC FAILURE that was last year, they still ****ing decide to stand pat '
Exactly.

This off-season is the perfect time to start the re-build.

You haven't committed to a coach beyond this year and you can easily justify a GM firing when they don't make the playoffs.

Then, the new GM has time to make his stamp on drafting, free agency and dismantling the roster.

Even though I'm all for a re-build, I don't think they should go full Oilers. They failed to surround their youngsters with talent and did a terrible job bringing players in outside of the 1st round and then you face situaions where you have to pay 4.5 mill a year to Nikitin.

'This off-season is the perfect time to start the re-build.' - Every off-season seems to be the 'perfect time' but they never do so.

According to Damien Cox of Rogers Sportsnet, Toronto Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan can boldly try to aggressively build this hockey team from the foundation up in the way that others, from Floyd Smith to Cliff Fletcher to Ken Dryden to Pat Quinn to John Ferguson Jr. to Brian Burke, refused to do. Or weren’t allowed to do. Or chose not to do.

Or he can pretend that there’s upside here to simply staying the course and trying to build upon the flawed foundation that currently exists.

The guess from here, folks, is that Shanahan knows he’s at a crossroads, understands there’s no easy way out and that there’s little or no real choice in what must be done.

Tear this thing right down and start over.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/why-shanahan-must-blow-up-the-maple-leafs/

Sportsnet/Rogers/Cox is going to give you the scoop?

Don't make any bets on it...

 

[Tak7]

If the plan isn't to rebuild then I have no idea wtf this franchise is doing.

This.

We've finally gotten to the point where rebuilding is the only solution long-term for this team.

 

[Ratboy]

i dont know about you guys, but ive missed almost half the games this year and i dont even care. things look pretty bleak and until management shows that they've accepted the need for tearing this thing apart my enthusiasm for hockey in general is wavering.

i derive no pleasure from this gong show. maple leafs sports and ENTERTAINMENT my ass.

 

[thewave]

This.

We've finally gotten to the point where rebuilding is the only solution long-term for this team.

They certainly need a 1/2 rebuild.

Meaning

Trade

Franson or Jake
Kessel or Dion
Lupul
Bozak
Santa
Winnik
Robidas
Clarkson (at all costs)
Reimer

32m represented above. (-7m) cap to facilitate this next year likely. +3m to cap ceiling so we could have about 24m to play with which is nice.

Players left

JVR Kadri Kessel
------- ------- --------
Komarov Holland Panik
------- ------- --------

Prospect pool

(((Brown, Leivo, Carrick, Frattin, Ashton, Nylander, Gauthier etc)))
+++
(((Acquisitions)))

If they get it to that we're in good shape.

 

[SeenSchenn2]

They're not going to be able to win with this core because there's such limited cap-space to improve (other than signing 1-year deals like last off-season - which is a good move). So if the plan isn't to rebuild, they'll just try to keep adding pieces via the draft and maybe our 6th+ pick every year will work out.

It's drastic and undoable, but I'd love to commit to a rebuild with Rielly/Nylander/Kadri/Gardiner/Bernier, etc. I didn't include Kessel because of what I said earlier, I don't think we'll be able to win a cup while he's here; especially with what he's surrounded by.

 

[mashedpotato]

They certainly need a 1/2 rebuild.

Meaning

Trade

Franson or Jake
Kessel or Dion
Lupul
Bozak
Santa
Winnik
Robidas
Clarkson (at all costs)
Reimer

32m represented above. (-7m) cap to facilitate this next year likely. +3m to cap ceiling so we could have about 24m to play with which is nice.

Players left

JVR Kadri Kessel
------- ------- --------
Komarov Holland Panik
------- ------- --------

Prospect pool

(((Brown, Leivo, Carrick, Frattin, Ashton, Nylander, Gauthier etc)))
+++
(((Acquisitions)))

If they get it to that we're in good shape.

No one wins through UFA anymore - anyone that's counting available capspace and trading to create cap room by trading is only trying to create a commodity that can be used for trades; though it's possible that buy prospects by taking on other teams' salary. To date, not one team is actively shopping capspace for prospects.

Drafting and developing is the only way you get out of the 7th level hell you've created for yourselves.

Who cares what we've got and especially at how much - they're not winning which is actually good for us.

 

[thewave]

No one wins through UFA anymore - anyone that's counting available capspace and trading to create cap room by trading is only trying to create a commodity that can be used for trades; though it's possible that buy prospects by taking on other teams' salary. To date, not one team is actively shopping capspace for prospects.

Drafting and developing is the only way you get out of the 7th level hell you've created for yourselves.

Who cares what we've got and especially at how much - they're not winning which is actually good for us.

That's why they need the cap space. So they can sign the guys they develop in the future.

My space is not for UFAs, I would say so if I meant that. The room must be made if they can for the future and for in the event someone comes available that we can get and want.

 

[Trapper]

If the plan isn't to rebuild, the only thing left is to select a new color of lipstick for the pig.

 

[ryno23]

The drafting has killed us for as long as I have been a Leaf fan and that is going on 40 years. I think Shanahan realizes the importance of keeping picks and we won't be seeing 2nd moved for players like Bolland before they re-tool, re-build,re-invent the team.

This year is the time to see if you can move Lupul for anything and remove him from the books same goes for Reimer.

Then you look at Bozak, Gardiner and Franson. If the right deal is there you move them.

 

[MapleLeaf4ever]

I was ready for the full scale rebuild back in 2008 when it became apparent that Sundin wanted go somewhere and win. Now, I'm not so sure. Kessel is an Elite goal scorer and I doubt anyone would argue that. Phanuef I see as a solid complimentary top pair defense man, hence I believe he is over paid. That said a 28 year old UFA top pair defense man coming off a 6.5m contract is going to break bank, props to Nonis for keeping the pay raise to a minimum. So we have two solid pieces both in there prime. We have some good young players in JVR,Kadri, Rielly and Gardiner if he calms down. Franson is a solid 2nd pair PP specialist and a rare RHS. Finally we have reliable goaltending in Bernier and Riemer. All this is not what we had when Sundin left, back then we had a series of overpaid players in Darcy Tucker, Brian McCabe, Pavel Kubina and Jason Blake; a group of players made for the dead puck era, and a revolving door of Knuckle busters and Horrid goaltenders. This is a totally different situation.

Now to answer your questions:

I expect Clarkson to be moved to a team such as Carolina, where they have a player signed to a horrid contract that has a better buyout than Clarkson, such as Semin who's buyout results in a 2 mil cap hit over 6 years. Carolina does not have the real $'s to buyout a player making ~$7m in salary but they do have the cap space for a player who has $1m in real salary left on his contract and the rest is bonus salary that they may or may not have to pay in full, plus they have the cap space. This is a deal I look at and expect to happen.

I also believe that the leafs pick in the 6-12 range. with that if Lawson Crouse is available I would go for him. He looked great at the WJC and brings that physical power forward game that we haven't seen since Roberts. Lupul and Bozak should be shipped out for cheaper options and picks. Keep Riemer for another season as goaltending depth is huge. Trade him at the end of next season like LAK did with Bernier. The next ~2-3 years may be as frustrating as this one but unless Kadri or Nylander has a major breakout year establishing himself as an Elite Centre in this league, gotta keep on just drafting developing, keeping cap to a minimum and retaining assets.

Another deal that I would get in on is for ROR. It would sure up the top 6 of this team and add diversity to the top 6. I personally don't feel he is leaps and bounds ahead of Kadri or Bozak, but he plays a different game from theirs and this team has too much of the same. If Gardiner is the asking price, I would go for it. At this point I think Jake has the potential to be a very good 2nd pair D but we have Percy who looks promising enough that he can replace him in the short term and Finn is another developing Dman that looks to be a bonafide NHLer.

Last point. Godla was just Godly in the WJC. He currently sits as a ~2-4th round draft pick. If he is still available when the leafs pick in the 3rd round, I would grab him and bring him over to his CHL team to develop some more. Keeps depth at the position and he's a guy who I would think could challenge Bernier for the #1 one day.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

i dont know about you guys, but ive missed almost half the games this year and i dont even care. things look pretty bleak and until management shows that they've accepted the need for tearing this thing apart my enthusiasm for hockey in general is wavering.

i derive no pleasure from this gong show. maple leafs sports and ENTERTAINMENT my ass.

Same here,I don't care either. I asked the wife if she wanted me to find a movie in the first period and didn't even wonder about the score lol. Repulsive team.

 

[Swayze*]

Where's all the rumours?

You'd think there would some trades heating up by now or at least some chatter

scary

 

[MapleLeaf4ever]

All this said, I think it may be possible to do a full rebuild as David Poille of NSH really likes Kessel and has made comments how he is astonished that the Toronto MSM would suggest trading a player of his ilk and how idiots like Feschuck are allowed to treat him as such. I doubt we get SJ as Poille like his yanks but maybe a couple firsts and a prospect could come back this way. As for moving Phanuef, well everyone says EDM but at the time BB picked him up from CGY and 29 other GM's and Coaches wanted nothing to do with him. Well guess what, KLowe and MacT are still there. CGY is another rumour that keeps popping up, and I doubt that happens as BB is a pretty straight shooter and he has said that there is trade interest between the leafs and flames for Phanuef. Finally him and Elisha live in P.E.I. and he has a LMNTC where he submits a 14 team list that he will go too. I doubt any of those are for western teams outside Cali, most are probably Eastern Conference teams or Cup Contenders which outside of ANA likely wouldnt go for him as they all have legit top pairing Defenders.

 

[Trapper]

All this said, I think it may be possible to do a full rebuild as David Poille of NSH really likes Kessel and has made comments how he is astonished that the Toronto MSM would suggest trading a player of his ilk and how idiots like Feschuck are allowed to treat him as such. I doubt we get SJ as Poille like his yanks but maybe a couple firsts and a prospect could come back this way. As for moving Phanuef, well everyone says EDM but at the time BB picked him up from CGY and 29 other GM's and Coaches wanted nothing to do with him. Well guess what, KLowe and MacT are still there. CGY is another rumour that keeps popping up, and I doubt that happens as BB is a pretty straight shooter and he has said that there is trade interest between the leafs and flames for Phanuef. Finally him and Elisha live in P.E.I. and he has a LMNTC where he submits a 14 team list that he will go too. I doubt any of those are for western teams outside Cali, most are probably Eastern Conference teams or Cup Contenders which outside of ANA likely wouldnt go for him as they all have legit top pairing Defenders.

Yeah it's funny how he opens his mouth about a player of his "ilk" until we asked for Jones and a 1st, then suddenly the "ilk" is not so ilky.

 

[FifthLine]

Its really not a difficult decision at this point. We are in a perfect time to do a rebuild on the fly like Columbus when they traded Nash. Trade Dion for a 1st and a prospect. Trade Phil for a young nhler now and a pick/prospect (Jones etc).

Then you build around Rielly, JVR, Jones, Naz, Bernier, Nylander, the top ten pick this year (Barzal) and our other first. We would still be a decent team with young guys ready to contribute and some good veterans still around like Polak and Santorelli.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Honestly I think you can build around Kessel and maybe Phaneuf.

Both the problem is we're capped out on albatross contracts (clarkson, bozak, lupul, robidas) to the point where you don't have the money to bring in guys to support/insulate kessel and dion.

Realistically, the only thing we can really do is blow it up. The sooner we start, the better off we'll be

 

[Mess]

All this said, I think it may be possible to do a full rebuild as David Poille of NSH really likes Kessel and has made comments how he is astonished that the Toronto MSM would suggest trading a player of his ilk and how idiots like Feschuck are allowed to treat him as such. I doubt we get SJ as Poille like his yanks but maybe a couple firsts and a prospect could come back this way. As for moving Phanuef, well everyone says EDM but at the time BB picked him up from CGY and 29 other GM's and Coaches wanted nothing to do with him. Well guess what, KLowe and MacT are still there. CGY is another rumour that keeps popping up, and I doubt that happens as BB is a pretty straight shooter and he has said that there is trade interest between the leafs and flames for Phanuef. Finally him and Elisha live in P.E.I. and he has a LMNTC where he submits a 14 team list that he will go too. I doubt any of those are for western teams outside Cali, most are probably Eastern Conference teams or Cup Contenders which outside of ANA likely wouldnt go for him as they all have legit top pairing Defenders.

Nashville and Toronto were the 2 teams interested and biding on Kessel when he was on the Market with Boston.

 

[bobber]

My Magic Eight Ball says Kessel an Phanuef gone at the deadline.

 

[Trapper]

Nashville and Toronto were the 2 teams interested and biding on Kessel when he was on the Market with Boston.

We have no idea who the 8? teams on the Kessel trade list are. Can't even speculate a return because we don't even know what teams we can deal with.

Out of 8 teams 4 could already be cap maxed or don't want Kessel.
Same goes for Phaneuf.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't think they whole thing has to be blown up

Move Lupul, Phaneuf, Franson, Reimer, Bozak, Winnik, Robidas

You still have Kessel, Kadri, Rielly, JVR, Komarov, Santorelli (hopefully), Gardiner to build around

 

[WilliamNylander]

I don't think they whole thing has to be blown up

Move Lupul, Phaneuf, Franson, Reimer, Bozak, Winnik, Robidas

You still have Kessel, Kadri, Rielly, JVR, Komarov, Santorelli (hopefully), Gardiner to build around

This is a perfect scenario. Keep all your good contracts and move the bad ones - lots of cap space to sign smart players and fix the holes in the roster

 

[Trapper]

My Magic Eight Ball says Kessel an Phanuef gone at the deadline.

Give it another shake then because as much as I would love a rebuild, I don't see it ever happening.

I really wish Shanahan would be the guy to start us off at the beginning. Even if it takes 5-10 years. Start stockpiling and building your NHL core and your AHL prospects. Please do.

 

[silentbob37*]

They need to find a way to shed 8-12 million and leave that space open.

The ONLY way this team is going to contend for a cup without blowing the current team up is by jumping the first opportunity they get to land a top tier talent (2, maybe 3 really). They can't afford to miss out on the rare chance to sign or trade for that kind of player because they don't have the cap room.

 

[thewave]

I would imagine the likelihood of kids born 2000 and on being Leaf fans in % is starting to dwindle. I imagine Kids don't like perennial losers as their team of choice and with the Internet following other teams is easy. They are going to lose a significant portion of a generation of leaf fans if they keep this up.

I did not conduct any studies or research to validate this claim. Call it a hunch.

They better get their **** together fast.