If the Habs decided and managed to get Paul Stastny

[Miller Time]

He doesn't have the emotional make-up?

What?

some guys just flat out compete, regardless of who they play with, how the coach uses them et. Some guys, not so much.

Judging from what we've seen from Patches since he turned pro, at this point he's on the more emotionally fragile side of the equation. Pouts when things don't go his way, and generally doesn't play with a consistent compete level.

it sounds perhaps worse than it is... very few players compete the way a gallagher or even Plekanec do on a nightly basis.

Patches, to be the asset we need him to be, needs to be well surrounded. He's not in the same category as a guy like Subban, who delivers at a consistently high base level wether he plays with Markov or Bouillion.

doesn't have the emotional make-up to be depended on to produce regardless of who he lines up with... heck, as we saw in the playoffs, even with his favorite C, we can't really count on him to produce when the pressure/intensity ramp up... not such a crazy statement imo.

 

[djpass]

So let's trade Subban instead of Gorges 'cause we'll get more.

And why get Sastsny who's also not a number one center? Why not just try Galchenyuk in the role and see what he can do? If we're going to get a player, get a winger because that's what we really need.

Using Subban as an example is ridiculous. Subban is essential to this team, not Plekanec.

Stastny + another good asset......is better than simply keeping Plekanec with nothing else.

No matter how you'd like to twist your thinking, replacing Plekanec with Stastny is an improvement, even if not a gigantic one.

If you really want to try Galchenyuk at center, then that's fine cause you're still better with Stastny rather than Plekanec anyways. Would you rather have Plekanec - Galchenyuk - Eller....or Stastny - Galchenyuk - Eller ?

To improve your team you have to deal something decent and if Stastny is willing to come over while not costing any asset in return, you bet your ass it's time to make a move with Plekanec to get a decent return.

Two good top 6 players instead of only one ? Any day.

 

[Miller Time]

of course he will given the lineup you posted, Patches and DD, and probably most of the o-zone starts... compared to the Plekanec treatment it's night and day...


now picture this
Prust / Stastny / Gionta

how many more points than Plekanec do you think Stastny get on usch a line (cause THAT is the Plekanec treatment)? I mean, considering he put up 60 on a top 6 of Duchesne, Landeskog, ROR, PAP (or MacKinnon) Tanguay at the beginning of the season, and Stastny himself...


as for your second lineup, yeah sure, we'll sign Stastny and Vanek on top of getting a Sharp trough trade

get what you're saying, and even agree in part... but it also misses a big part of the equation

it's not that Stastny is an upgrade on Pleks (i'd argue it's a wash, maybe even a slight edge to plekanec given salary + character + comfort level in motnreal)...

it's two parts:
1- making sure that our #1 offensive weapon (Patches) is playing next to a guy he feels comfortable with/remains content even after we deal away his security blanket(DD).

2- cost zero assets to add Stastny, while Plekanec should return some quality/needed assets via trade.


in that sense, it's not a matter of the team being better simply by swapping Stastny for Pleks, it's the team being better by making a relatively neutral swap at C AND adding quality pieces at other spots, W in particular.


Yes, we could simply keep Pleks and try to sign UFA wingers... but the market for those are thin (vanek we should steer clear of, Iginla and Gaborik aren't coming here, heatley's done, guys like vrabata/kulemin/hemsky are/should be targets either way).
Stastny, ostensibly, could have interest in playing in Montreal given his heritage/ties to the province (pure speculation) and his proven chemistry/relationship with Patches from their Team USA forrays.

of the UFA players out there, i'd be most comfortable "overpaying" on him than pretty much any other player out there right now, and if we did, then it would make sense to turn the asset that Plekanec is at C to assets at other positions of need.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Using Subban as an example is ridiculous. Subban is essential to this team, not Plekanec.

Stastny + another good asset......is better than simply keeping Plekanec with nothing else.

No matter how you'd like to twist your thinking, replacing Plekanec with Stastny is an improvement, even if not a gigantic one.

If you really want to try Galchenyuk at center, then that's fine cause you're still better with Stastny rather than Plekanec anyways. Would you rather have Plekanec - Galchenyuk - Eller....or Stastny - Galchenyuk - Eller ?

To improve your team you have to deal something decent and if Stastny is willing to come over while not costing any asset in return, you bet your ass it's time to make a move with Plekanec to get a decent return.

Two good top 6 players instead of only one ? Any day.

you think it's realistic that we'd sign a C just so we can trade one of ours ?

considering our needs are at wings, you think it's better to sign a C who's not much better, trade one of ours for assets, assets that we may have to use as bait to lang a winger (cause that's where the needs are in case you didnt know)

you think it's more or less realistic than simply signing one of the UFA wingers available (cause that's where the needs are in case you forgot) ?
-

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Using Subban as an example is ridiculous.

If you completely ignore the context in which it was brought up? Sure...

Subban is essential to this team, not Plekanec.

Stastny + another good asset......is better than simply keeping Plekanec with nothing else.

No matter how you'd like to twist your thinking, replacing Plekanec with Stastny is an improvement, even if not a gigantic one.

If you really want to try Galchenyuk at center, then that's fine cause you're still better with Stastny rather than Plekanec anyways. Would you rather have Plekanec - Galchenyuk - Eller....or Stastny - Galchenyuk - Eller ?

To improve your team you have to deal something decent and if Stastny is willing to come over while not costing any asset in return, you bet your ass it's time to make a move with Plekanec to get a decent return.

Two good top 6 players instead of only one ? Any day.

Why get rid of Plecs to begin with?

And Stastny is slight upgrade on Plecs? Their numbers are identical except for this season when Plecs was used almost exclusively in a checking role... so I don't even know if he is. And even if he is a slight upgrade... that warrants a 7 million dollar (or whatever its going to take) deal to get him? Why?

We DON'T NEED THIS GUY. He's not a number one. Its like Gomez all over again except we wouldn't be losing a great prospect. And again, Plecs isnt' the guy who we should get rid of, DD is. Give Galchenyuk the number one and have Eller and Plecs behind him. We need wingers not number centers pretending to be number ones and being paid like a number one.

If it was a real number one? Okay sure. But even then I'd keep Plecs and get rid of DD. DD can handle the checking role better than anyone else. There's a role for him. DD is offense only and he only produces by being sheltered to ****. No reason - none - to hang onto him over Plecs.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

some guys just flat out compete, regardless of who they play with, how the coach uses them et. Some guys, not so much.

Judging from what we've seen from Patches since he turned pro, at this point he's on the more emotionally fragile side of the equation. Pouts when things don't go his way, and generally doesn't play with a consistent compete level.

it sounds perhaps worse than it is... very few players compete the way a gallagher or even Plekanec do on a nightly basis.

Patches, to be the asset we need him to be, needs to be well surrounded. He's not in the same category as a guy like Subban, who delivers at a consistently high base level wether he plays with Markov or Bouillion.

doesn't have the emotional make-up to be depended on to produce regardless of who he lines up with... heck, as we saw in the playoffs, even with his favorite C, we can't really count on him to produce when the pressure/intensity ramp up... not such a crazy statement imo.

He might pout a bit but that's a long way from being too fragile to handle having a new center. And if this really is a concern, all the more reason to deal DD right from the start. Get rid of him so he's not an option. It's not like Max is going to run away from the team if we do this...

 

[Miller Time]

you think it's realistic that we'd sign a C just so we can trade one of ours ?

considering our needs are at wings, you think it's better to sign a C who's not much better, trade one of ours for assets, assets that we may have to use as bait to lang a winger (cause that's where the needs are in case you didnt know)

you think it's more or less realistic than simply signing one of the UFA wingers available (cause that's where the needs are in case you forgot) ?
-

yes, i think it is realistic that a GM would manage his existing assets in a way that leads to a better overall lineup from one season to the next.

yes, we have needs at W. We also have needs at C unless DD is upgraded on.

Yes, i think it is more realistic that the team would be improved by signing Stastny, removing DD from the equation (and putting Galch at his natural position), and trading one of Pleks/Eller for a quality return of NHL assets.

 

[Frozenice]

If you completely ignore the context in which it was brought up? Sure...


Why get rid of Plecs to begin with?

And Stastny is slight upgrade on Plecs? Their numbers are identical except for this season when Plecs was used almost exclusively in a checking role... so I don't even know if he is. And even if he is a slight upgrade... that warrants a 7 million dollar (or whatever its going to take) deal to get him? Why?

We DON'T NEED THIS GUY. He's not a number one. Its like Gomez all over again except we wouldn't be losing a great prospect. And again, Plecs isnt' the guy who we should get rid of, DD is. Give Galchenyuk the number one and have Eller and Plecs behind him. We need wingers not number centers pretending to be number ones and being paid like a number one.

If it was a real number one? Okay sure. But even then I'd keep Plecs and get rid of DD. DD can handle the checking role better than anyone else. There's a role for him. DD is offense only and he only produces by being sheltered to ****. No reason - none - to hang onto him over Plecs.

Why would he be replacing Pleks when he could be replacing DD? I don't have a problem keeping him and Pleks, trading Pleks should be when we're comfortable with our other centres.

If we get a true #1 centre we can trade Stastny, then. If Gomez and Stasny are comparable's then PK and Luke Schenn are comparable, too. I mean they play the same position, hold their stick in a similar way and are getting paid a similar amount.

 

[Miller Time]

He might pout a bit but that's a long way from being too fragile to handle having a new center. And if this really is a concern, all the more reason to deal DD right from the start. Get rid of him so he's not an option. It's not like Max is going to run away from the team if we do this...

trading DD as a start is a given imo (even while anticipating that the brain thrust behind the MT 4-year extension is more likely to keep the status quo).

certainly would not be crazy to hope/expect Patches to be just fine lined up to any one of Eller-Pleks-Galch, in theory... in practice, I'm skeptical. Pairing him with Galch would strike me as the most likely spot for success, pairing him with Stastny gives us/him a proven successful match.

Would be happy to be proven wrong. Patches certainly is young enough to continue improving/evolving as a player.

 

[djpass]

If you completely ignore the context in which it was brought up? Sure...


Why get rid of Plecs to begin with?

And Stastny is slight upgrade on Plecs? Their numbers are identical except for this season when Plecs was used almost exclusively in a checking role... so I don't even know if he is. And even if he is a slight upgrade... that warrants a 7 million dollar (or whatever its going to take) deal to get him? Why?

We DON'T NEED THIS GUY. He's not a number one. Its like Gomez all over again except we wouldn't be losing a great prospect. And again, Plecs isnt' the guy who we should get rid of, DD is. Give Galchenyuk the number one and have Eller and Plecs behind him. We need wingers not number centers pretending to be number ones and being paid like a number one.

If it was a real number one? Okay sure. But even then I'd keep Plecs and get rid of DD. DD can handle the checking role better than anyone else. There's a role for him. DD is offense only and he only produces by being sheltered to ****. No reason - none - to hang onto him over Plecs.

At this point, we need the best possible top 6 players, without necessarily identifying them to precise roles such as 1st line or 2nd line. Some guys are top 6 and others are bottom 6.

Yes Stastny is an upgrade to Plekanec, albeit not huge, but still evidently better. Costs aside, he does bring more to a team and at 28 instead of 32 for Plekance in October, we get a guy that can be here longer. Plekanec will not get any better and he will not give you the offense that this team needs anyways. Other guys can combine their efforts in a checking role. He is far from being essential.

You keep bringing DD up for nothing. Obviously we'd rather keep Plekanec over DD but the fact is Plekanec has value and DD doesn't.

At some point, like or not, if we want to get better, we'll have to move assets, hence possibly using Plekanec to improve. We don't have many good players to move in order to get good assets in return and not hurt in the process once losing them.

If you do get Stastny at center, you don't lose anyone while doing so and now you have the opportunity to deal someone to continue improving. And you have to be kidding to compare him to Gomez...lol

If you have Stastny, Galchenyuk and Eller already on hand, moving Plekanec is the logical move (value wise outside the young ones) and where you'd hurt less in the process in order to get better elsewhere.

This has nothing to do with hanging on to DD over Plekanec....

It's all about getting better and that's the end goal after all.

 

[Monctonscout]

Why would he be replacing Pleks when he could be replacing DD? I don't have a problem keeping him and Pleks, trading Pleks should be when we're comfortable with our other centres.

If we get a true #1 centre we can trade Stastny, then. If Gomez and Stasny are comparable's then PK and Luke Schenn are comparable, too. I mean they play the same position, hold their stick in a similar way and are getting paid a similar amount.

...and what if you sign Stastny for 7 years at 49 mil and he slides into a #2 center, then you're stuck with him unless you are willing to keep 2-3 mil of cap hit.

Stastny is only a slight upgrade over Plekanec and would cost a pile more money, around 2 mil more/year plus 6-7 years of commitment. Typical UFA overpayment.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why would he be replacing Pleks when he could be replacing DD? I don't have a problem keeping him and Pleks, trading Pleks should be when we're comfortable with our other centres.

If we get a true #1 centre we can trade Stastny, then. If Gomez and Stasny are comparable's then PK and Luke Schenn are comparable, too. I mean they play the same position, hold their stick in a similar way and are getting paid a similar amount.

Why bother with Stastny to begin with? Give Galchenyuk a chance. We've got Plecs who's just as good as Stastny and we've got Eller who should be given more opportunity.

Go get wingers to help the centers we already have.

trading DD as a start is a given imo (even while anticipating that the brain thrust behind the MT 4-year extension is more likely to keep the status quo).

certainly would not be crazy to hope/expect Patches to be just fine lined up to any one of Eller-Pleks-Galch, in theory... in practice, I'm skeptical. Pairing him with Galch would strike me as the most likely spot for success, pairing him with Stastny gives us/him a proven successful match.

Would be happy to be proven wrong. Patches certainly is young enough to continue improving/evolving as a player.

I think you are being overly skeptical here. He'll be fine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

At this point, we need the best possible top 6 players, without necessarily identifying them to precise roles such as 1st line or 2nd line. Some guys are top 6 and others are bottom 6.

Paying a guy like Stastny (a number two) as a number one doesn't make sense. Esp when we have several number two centers already here and a young guy who should get his shot.

Yes Stastny is an upgrade to Plekanec, albeit not huge, but still evidently better. Costs aside, he does bring more to a team and at 28 instead of 32 for Plekance in October, we get a guy that can be here longer. Plekanec will not get any better and he will not give you the offense that this team needs anyways. Other guys can combine their efforts in a checking role. He is far from being essential.

Their numbers are identical over the past few years man... And Plecs is solid defensively. I don't think Stastny's better. He's younger but...

You keep bringing DD up for nothing. Obviously we'd rather keep Plekanec over DD but the fact is Plekanec has value and DD doesn't.

At some point, like or not, if we want to get better, we'll have to move assets, hence possibly using Plekanec to improve. We don't have many good players to move in order to get good assets in return and not hurt in the process once losing them.

If you do get Stastny at center, you don't lose anyone while doing so and now you have the opportunity to deal someone to continue improving. And you have to be kidding to compare him to Gomez...lol

If you have Stastny, Galchenyuk and Eller already on hand, moving Plekanec is the logical move (value wise outside the young ones) and where you'd hurt less in the process in order to get better elsewhere.

This has nothing to do with hanging on to DD over Plekanec....

It's all about getting better and that's the end goal after all.

If you want to get better, you address the areas that need addressing. Moreover, you don't waste cap space on players who aren't worth it.

There's only so much we can do with the cap. We need help on the wings. Getting what we already have (at more dollars) doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Frozenice]

Why bother with Stastny to begin with? Give Galchenyuk a chance. We've got Plecs who's just as good as Stastny and we've got Eller who should be given more opportunity.

Go get wingers to help the centers we already have.

I think you are being overly skeptical here. He'll be fine.

Why not give Galchenyuk a chance to ripen slowly? I'm not convinced he'll be a centre anytime soon and I'm fine with that. I'd rather give Pacioretty a chance at centre first, as long as he had a playmaking winger not named DD, tbh.

 

[djpass]

Paying a guy like Stastny (a number two) as a number one doesn't make sense. Esp when we have several number two centers already here and a young guy who should get his shot.

Their numbers are identical over the past few years man... And Plecs is solid defensively. I don't think Stastny's better. He's younger but...

If you want to get better, you address the areas that need addressing. Moreover, you don't waste cap space on players who aren't worth it.

There's only so much we can do with the cap. We need help on the wings. Getting what we already have (at more dollars) doesn't make any sense at all.

I'll respectfully disagree with you in the sense that I won't change my opinion when saying Stastny is a better offensive weapon than Plekanec, while being also a decent 2 way player in general. I think in terms of top 6, not #1 or #2.

I'm not a statistics guy because I tend to think they don't necessarily say everything but in this case, even if Paul somewhat struggled the last few years, he still has good offensive hockey left in him compared to Pleky.

Here are the stats up to date :

STASTNY = 538 160 298 458 = .85pts / game

PLEKANEC = 679 176 263 439 = .65pts / game


Where I do agree with you is on the financial aspect and year term. If the guy can get a minimum of 7 million for at least 7 years, I would obviously pass. If somehow we could get him for around 6-6.5 for 5 years, then I'm on board. We'll see how the market shapes up this summer.

Bottom line and money aside, at this point in their respective careers, I do believe that Stastny is an upgrade to Plekanec.

So if you do get him, hypothetically, then it's at center that you can manage to unleash in order to improve yourself without affecting your team too much.

We do need help on the wing but I think it won't come from this year's crop of UFAs...it'll come from a trade, hence using Pleky into consideration based on present value.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Why can't we have Stastny and Pleks together? Just need to shed salary by dumping Briere, Bourque, Moen,DD, etc. Stastny is here to take DD's spot, not Plek's. We can have Stastny-Patch on 1st line. Galchenyuk can play LW on 2nd line with Eller and have Pleks center the 3rd line playing defensive situations. We would be much stronger with Stastny centering Patch than DD wouldn't we?

Besides, Pleks' contract runs out in 2 years. By then, we can place Galchen as a center and bump down Eller to the third line.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

I just don't see this happening, if Stastny plays with MacKinnon as well as Landeskog. While Galchenyuk is a promising player, Stastny already has a great situation where he is. I can easily see him coming to terms with the Avalanche rather than coming to Montreal.

Also, if I were he, I would also having misgivings about trading in a coach like Roy for Therrien.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why not give Galchenyuk a chance to ripen slowly? I'm not convinced he'll be a centre anytime soon and I'm fine with that. I'd rather give Pacioretty a chance at centre first, as long as he had a playmaking winger not named DD, tbh.

He'll be a 60+ point guy this season if they give him the minutes. He won't need to slowly ripen.

I'll respectfully disagree with you in the sense that I won't change my opinion when saying Stastny is a better offensive weapon than Plekanec, while being also a decent 2 way player in general. I think in terms of top 6, not #1 or #2.

I'm not a statistics guy because I tend to think they don't necessarily say everything but in this case, even if Paul somewhat struggled the last few years, he still has good offensive hockey left in him compared to Pleky.

Here are the stats up to date :

STASTNY = 538 160 298 458 = .85pts / game

PLEKANEC = 679 176 263 439 = .65pts / game


Where I do agree with you is on the financial aspect and year term. If the guy can get a minimum of 7 million for at least 7 years, I would obviously pass. If somehow we could get him for around 6-6.5 for 5 years, then I'm on board. We'll see how the market shapes up this summer.

Bottom line and money aside, at this point in their respective careers, I do believe that Stastny is an upgrade to Plekanec.

So if you do get him, hypothetically, then it's at center that you can manage to unleash in order to improve yourself without affecting your team too much.

We do need help on the wing but I think it won't come from this year's crop of UFAs...it'll come from a trade, hence using Pleky into consideration based on present value.

What do you think Stastny would sign for? 7 mil?

And if he produces 60 points a year... you think we can deal him down the road? No way. I think we're signing up an albatross. And I might even be okay with that if he was on the wing... but its more of what we have. We don't need a stopgap either.

Why can't we have Stastny and Pleks together?

Why?

Just need to shed salary by dumping Briere, Bourque, Moen,DD, etc. Stastny is here to take DD's spot, not Plek's. We can have Stastny-Patch on 1st line. Galchenyuk can play LW on 2nd line with Eller and have Pleks center the 3rd line playing defensive situations. We would be much stronger with Stastny centering Patch than DD wouldn't we?

Besides, Pleks' contract runs out in 2 years. By then, we can place Galchen as a center and bump down Eller to the third line.

That's why.

 

[S Bah]

Stastny is the top UFA at center and shares top billing with Vanek OV. The Habs won't get another opportunity at this player, Ryan O'Reilly is an RFA that would cost assets and he won't be a UFA for two yrs. By then the Habs will have;

Eller- #1
DD -#2
Plekanec -#3

I believe that O'Reilly is a great #2 center behind the play of Stastny the Avs #1 until MacKinnon usurps him or the Habs sign him, giving the Habs;

#1 - Stastny
#2 - Eller/ DD
#3 - Plekanec/JDLR

The Habs at that point two premier LW's in Pacioretty & Galchenyuk, two premier RW's in Vanek & Gallagher / Gionta (aging but great behind Vanek) receiving second line minutes. The Habs would have three very good lines, a top nine as deep as the LA Kings. Playing Bourque LW, Gionta RW with Plekanec as a 3rd line instead of in their checking mode against opposing 1st lines. They should be a dominating 3rd line, able to play 2nd line mins., each line able to play one above. Gives the coach the ability to use one line as the primary unit one night and the other the next game, as the Habs did in the Dynasty era.

 

[Kojo]

I believe that O'Reilly is a great #2 center behind the play of Stastny the Avs #1 until MacKinnon usurps him or the Habs sign him, giving the Habs;

That's true, except that Duchene is their 1C.

 

[FF de Mars]

S Bah. You might be the first HF poster to envision Galchenyuk as LW.

Thing is Galchenyuk is slow. Not as slow as Vanek, but definitly not fast. Guys like Thornton and Kopitar and Stastny play center because they are slow too and it fits their game. But hence... I don't want Stastny for that same exact reason : speed. And if we're gonna have Galchenyuk as LW, we might as well trade him for Evander Kane !

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

S Bah. You might be the first HF poster to envision Galchenyuk as LW.

Thing is Galchenyuk is slow...

Let Galchenyuk work on his skating then. It should be his #1 priority in the summer. These guys are motion pictures, not snapshots. The players that work on their weaknesses the hardest do the best job of maximizing their talents.

Surrounding him with a power skating coach and a decent strength trainer who can increase his explosiveness does not seem like that much of a stretch for MB.

 

[Miller Time]

I think you are being overly skeptical here. He'll be fine.

I hope ur right...

Though I don't want patches to be " fine" moving forward... I want him to excel... Can he do that without DD, sure... Can he do that with any C? Not so sure

 

[S Bah]

That's true, except that Duchene is their 1C.

Wouldn't it be a treat to have a half dozen great centers like Colorado does! People think the Habs are loaded with centers far from it. Colorado's top six are all centers, or were before getting drafted there.

 

[S Bah]

S Bah. You might be the first HF poster to envision Galchenyuk as LW.

Thing is Galchenyuk is slow. Not as slow as Vanek, but definitly not fast. Guys like Thornton and Kopitar and Stastny play center because they are slow too and it fits their game. But hence... I don't want Stastny for that same exact reason : speed. And if we're gonna have Galchenyuk as LW, we might as well trade him for Evander Kane !

Funny thing that posters & coaches don't agree on many things, especially what's best for the prospects/young players, after all the team must discuss what's best for their #1 prospect don't you think?