If Nashville wins the Cup which trade looks worse for the other team?

[ThirdManIn]

The difference in those cases is that those players WANTED out from their teams. Most of them demanded trades. Subban, on tbd other hand, seemed to love Montréal.

Gretzky sure as hell didn't want out of Edmonton.

 

[NickLidstrom]

Gretzky sure as hell didn't want out of Edmonton.

Did he not demand a trade because of his wife?

 

[ThirdManIn]

Did he not demand a trade because of his wife?

As far as I know he was taken by surprise by the whole thing, and it was a trade made as a business move since teams could trade cash back then. He didn't want out of Edmonton at all.

 

[NickLidstrom]

As far as I know he was taken by surprise by the whole thing, and it was a trade made as a business move since teams could trade cash back then. He didn't want out of Edmonton at all.

Gretzky orchestrated the trade. He DEFINITELY knew it was coming.

https://www.nhl.com/news/gretzky-trade-to-los-angeles-shocked-hockey-world/c-679887

 

[KCC]

The Subban/Weber deal is a wash (at least this season). Both were great. The Forsberg deal is what has really put over Nashville IMO.

 

[Hazu*]

This shouldn't even be a question.

Forsberg could have been a difference maker this year for the Caps and might even win the Cup with an extra elite forward in their team.

Montreal, in the other hand (and I say that as a Habs fan), might not even get past the Rangers with BOTH Subban and Weber.

This trade might look bad for the Habs if Subban ends up winning multiple Norris trophies or the MVP award in the playoffs, while the Forsberg/Erat trade is one of the worst trade in the recent years.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Montreal at least got a good player back. The Erat-Forsberg trade was dumb all around. With that said, does having Forsberg suddenly help the Caps win the cup all these years? Doubt it.

 

[habamillions]

Filip forsberg AINEC.

 

[Lshap]

The difference in those cases is that those players WANTED out from their teams. Most of them demanded trades. Subban, on tbd other hand, seemed to love Montréal.

But how does this support a supposed huge conspiracy by the Habs to discredit Subban? So an organization trades a star player and then, after the trade is done, colludes with the media in a covert plot to leak info and smear the player? It's totally ridiculous!

I understand fans are upset and emotional, but they've fabricated this dastardly fairy-tale of heroes, villains and victims to feed their biases. How can anyone seriously believe an organization is having secret meetings to concoct a plot against a player who they've already traded, and then using a complicit media to lie on its behalf. It absolutely amazes me that people will swallow this. They'll believe the idea of a uniquely convoluted, intricate, malicious campaign against Subban, but will refuse to accept the much simpler possibility that maybe the team found P.K. to be a pain-in-the-ass.

 

[nvn]

The Erat-Forsberg trade is embarassing.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

the forsberg trade will go down as one of the worst trades of all time

 

[Frank Drebin]

But how does this support a supposed huge conspiracy by the Habs to discredit Subban? So an organization trades a star player and then, after the trade is done, colludes with the media in a covert plot to leak info and smear the player? It's totally ridiculous!

I understand fans are upset and emotional, but they've fabricated this dastardly fairy-tale of heroes, villains and victims to feed their biases. How can anyone seriously believe an organization is having secret meetings to concoct a plot against a player who they've already traded, and then using a complicit media to lie on its behalf. It absolutely amazes me that people will swallow this. They'll believe the idea of a uniquely convoluted, intricate, malicious campaign against Subban, but will refuse to accept the much simpler possibility that maybe the team found P.K. to be a pain-in-the-ass.

Even more insane is that this "smear campaign" actually started late in the season, I mean why would an organization smear a player that they intend on shopping?

I have no doubts that PK became a huge pain in the butt his last season in Montreal, but I do think that could have been resolved with a change in coaching. ie the wrong half of the problem was removed.

PK is a good person - but he was a part of the reason why he was shipped out. He chose to butt heads with his coach - right or wrong - its a big reason why he was shipped out.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Gretzky orchestrated the trade. He DEFINITELY knew it was coming.

https://www.nhl.com/news/gretzky-trade-to-los-angeles-shocked-hockey-world/c-679887

Fair enough. I haven't spent much time reading about it to be honest. It still doesn't really solve the post below, though:

But how does this support a supposed huge conspiracy by the Habs to discredit Subban? So an organization trades a star player and then, after the trade is done, colludes with the media in a covert plot to leak info and smear the player? It's totally ridiculous!

Wouldn't it make more sense for organizations who were basically forced to trade their beloved stars to later run smear campaigns than for Montreal, a place Subban loved and where he wanted to stay, to run a smear campaign after trading him?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Fair enough. I haven't spent much time reading about it to be honest. It still doesn't really solve the post below, though:



Wouldn't it make more sense for organizations who were basically forced to trade their beloved stars to later run smear campaigns than for Montreal, a place Subban loved and where he wanted to stay, to run a smear campaign after trading him?

Which begs the question, why were they forced to trade their beloved star.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Must refrain from pointing out the misuse of "begs the question"

I'd imagine the reason for each trade mentioned was different. If you're only asking about Subban, I'm going to assume it was a conflict between player and coach as multiple Habs fans have discussed.

 

[Lshap]

Even more insane is that this "smear campaign" actually started late in the season, I mean why would an organization smear a player that they intend on shopping?

I have no doubts that PK became a huge pain in the butt his last season in Montreal, but I do think that could have been resolved with a change in coaching. ie the wrong half of the problem was removed.

PK is a good person - but he was a part of the reason why he was shipped out. He chose to butt heads with his coach - right or wrong - its a big reason why he was shipped out.

Fair points. A good leader can often resolve issues within the group. Therrien wasn't that guy. And yeah, I have no doubt PK is a good person. Thing is, I can also see that kind of outgoing, expressive type of guy being at odds with a locker room full of monotone jocks.

 

[Lshap]

Wouldn't it make more sense for organizations who were basically forced to trade their beloved stars to later run smear campaigns than for Montreal, a place Subban loved and where he wanted to stay, to run a smear campaign after trading him?

I think the whole idea of an NHL franchise creating a smear campaign to discredit one of their former athletes to be silly. Managers meeting after hours to script fake news and co-opting media figures into their dark mission... I mean really. The reality is you make a major trade that you know will **** off your fan base, and then you hope like hell that it disappears quickly as the summer begins. Instead, news about PK keeps cropping up on radio and in the press every frikkin day. It's a PR nightmare for the organization, and it gives rise to these wild conspiracies. I get people disliking GM Bergevin, but while they believe him to an incompetent boob when it comes to running a hockey team, they have no trouble imagining him to be a CIA mastermind when it comes to disinformation.

Enjoy having PK on your team. He's terrific for the game on every level. He's also a young guy who will probably mature and learn from whatever part he played in being traded.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Must refrain from pointing out the misuse of "begs the question"

.

blah

 

[LeafFever]

Most bad trades have people knocking it based on hindsight. The Forsberg trade was a very rare one where I don't recall anyone thinking that was a good idea the day it was announced. I am not sure why Erat was deemed so valuable he was worth a guy that good.

 

[Lshap]

Most bad trades have people knocking it based on hindsight. The Forsberg trade was a very rare one where I don't recall anyone thinking that was a good idea the day it was announced. I am not sure why Erat was deemed so valuable he was worth a guy that good.

This is true. I just assumed there was something secretly wrong with Forsberg, because otherwise it made no sense.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

If....

 

[jgatie]

This is an absolutely ridiculous post.

You realize that Subban isn't the first beloved player to be traded. Gretzky, Messier, Orr, Espo, Lafleur, etc, etc, were traded -- where were the organizational smear campaigns against them? Hell, Patrick Roy had a meltdown in mid-game in front of the whole fan base, and there was no conspiracy talk of the Canadiens "Spreading stories". This is conspiracy nonsense.

Orr was not traded! He was offered 18% ownership in the Bruins and his evil, disgraced criminal of an agent didn't tell him the offer and instead had him sign with Chicago because he had a backdoor deal with the company who had their concessions contract. That scum Alan Eagleson was later stripped from the Hall of Fame, and barely escaped jail for bilking the NHLPA insurance fund, and that was only due to his political clout.

 

[josra33]

Forsberg instead of nothing for the Caps or PK instead of Weber is a no brainer. AINEC

 

[Halakitlikethat]

More attention might be paid to the Subban trade, but there is absolutely no question that the Forsberg trade was much, much worse.

Montreal might hate losing Subban, but they got a star player in return...and they will have said player for years.

What's Erat doing these days?

Hate the subban trade for obvious reasons but agree with this post.

 

[HOPE]

its hard to say, they are as worst in my opinion for this reason:

Subban, Weber:

Montreal knew exacly what kind of talent they had in Subban and Weber was an obvious downgrade at the very moment and even more in the future ( i dont care what anyone thinks, its the truth, defensively + offensively Subban is superior.)

Forsberg, erat trade:

Obviously forsberg was just drafted and he had potential but it was still unknown at that moment and no one would have predict he would become this good. Washington were desperate for immediate help to support the group of foward for a playoff push, erat was obsiously not the best guy, but was probably their best option at that very moment and from what i heard the owner or someone in the organisation didnt like forsberg.

so yeah to be fair if you check Player for player right now the forsberg trade hurts more and its the worst of both. but if you consider just the trade, forsberg was nothing but a prospect and not proven, The Subban trade is worst because you knew what you were trading and what kind of contract and player you were getting. yes for some people its arguable, because some people see Weber as a god, but he isnt has relevant and useful like Subban in todays NHL where mobility and quick action matters more than pushing people in front of the net and having a big blast.( to be fair, Weber is not even ****ing physical! at least he isnt anymore.) so to me the the Subban trade is worst because you were suppose to have that knowledge.