Speculation: IF Landy doesn't sign

[Pokecheque]

So let me get this straight...we have an offseason thread, a trade proposal/rumor/FA thread, an if Landy DOES sign thread, an if Landy DOESN'T sign thread...all discussing essentially the same thing?

You must mistake us with the coherent, organized, and rational Avs fanbase over there.

 

[Richard88]

This. Replacing Landy and being a better team will be incredibly difficult (not impossible). Both parties are within their rights and I don’t have issues with the process. My issues with this whole process lie in the Avs likely ending up worse off and not capitalizing on the window.

I guess one other problem, I think this could have been mitigated. Once Seattle can throw out crazy numbers to Landy, the numbers simply increase and change the negotiations. Settling earlier would have kept absurd 9-10m per ideas out of the negotiations. Now these numbers are real and out there as an option.

So which one is it? Do you have an issue or don't you?

 

[Avs425]

Gabriel Landesgone

 

[henchman21]

The way I'm reading it, the opposite is playing out. Landy and his camp are seeking a huge contract, and have been for a while, and Sakic is daring him to go out and find it. Basically he's betting that no team out there can really give him what he wants, at least not a team that has a legit shot at contending right now, and that he'll come back and take a discount.

My read on this is during the previous offseason, both parties threw out numbers of where they'd be. There was distance, but was close enough where both parties just put it aside for the season. We even heard Landy talk like that on Chiclets a few months back. But the situation changed from the end of the season. Makar furthered his breakout pushing up his number a million or two. Grubi had an excellent season where he pushed up by about a million. RNH took a sweetheart deal. Causing more cap issues to present at the feet of Sakic and a 'comparable' to reel in numbers from prior and/or dig into his previous numbers hard. Where Landy likely thought it would be reasonable to meet in the middle from where they were.

So which one is it? Do you have an issue or don't you?

Hey I'm typing between holes! The first part is I meant this process right now working back and forth and getting a bit ugly. Both sides are at fault and it is just part of the business. Not a good sign of things. The latter process is how this has been handled over the past year. If this was a foreseeable issue, Avs should have worked a shitload harder to win THIS year.

 

[Pokecheque]

Hey I'm typing between holes! The first part is I meant this process right now working back and forth and getting a bit ugly. Both sides are at fault and it is just part of the business. Not a good sign of things. The latter process is how this has been handled over the past year. If this was a foreseeable issue, Avs should have worked a shitload harder to win THIS year.

And that right there is my biggest gripe over all this. Sakic knew this could happen, he knew Landy wasn't settling for a team-friendly deal, otherwise it would've been over and done with 10 months ago like Landy said. The fact he half-assed it at the deadline and during the regular season and did the bare minimum to improve the team when the holes in the lineup were readily obvious just looks all that much more glaring now.

 

[Ararana]

Gabriel Landesgone

Gabriel O'Moneybags?

 

[Avs44]

This. Replacing Landy and being a better team will be incredibly difficult (not impossible). Both parties are within their rights and I don’t have issues with the process. My issues with this whole process lie in the Avs likely ending up worse off and not capitalizing on the window.

I guess one other problem, I think this could have been mitigated. Once Seattle can throw out crazy numbers to Landy, the numbers simply increase and change the negotiations. Settling earlier would have kept absurd 9-10m per ideas out of the negotiations. Now these numbers are real and out there as an option.

I kind of feel like these numbers were out there before the period to negotiate with Seattle opened...it was Seravalli or Friedman who mentioned over a week ago that Landeskog's camp feels he could get 9-10 million on the open market, no? Landeskog's agent seems to be aggressive and sharp.

 

[henchman21]

I kind of feel like these numbers were out there before the period to negotiate with Seattle opened...it was Seravalli or Friedman who mentioned over a week ago that Landeskog's camp feels he could get 9-10 million on the open market, no? Landeskog's agent seems to be aggressive and sharp.

These things are done via back channels all the time. A year ago, there was no certainty that 9-10m was on the plate. Hell, I got called crazy for suggesting it could happen. Once things start opening up, tampering start happening and things get slipped. I think it was the 16th when that leaked out... only the day before the expansion lists. Which I'd attribute to Wallen having his antenna up for what Seattle could do and shooting across Sakic's brow as a last ditch prior. Sakic called the bluff.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Gabriel Landesgone

Its going to be weird seeing him in Oiler threads. Very weird.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

And that right there is my biggest gripe over all this. Sakic knew this could happen, he knew Landy wasn't settling for a team-friendly deal, otherwise it would've been over and done with 10 months ago like Landy said. The fact he half-assed it at the deadline and during the regular season and did the bare minimum to improve the team when the holes in the lineup were readily obvious just looks all that much more glaring now.

I think the cap overage penalty they are dealing with this season kind of handcuffed what they could do at the deadline last year.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think the cap overage penalty they are dealing with this season kind of handcuffed what they could do at the deadline last year.

That's not an excuse--again, this was the last season before the cap crunch really began, and they were likely going to get screwed with bonuses from Makar no matter what. They should've just leaned into it, done what they could and dealt with it next season like everyone else.

If they were so concerned about bonus overages they could've bought out or traded an excess salary or two before the season started.

 

[Metallo]

Gabriel Landesgone

Looks like a teamate harpooned him on his way out.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

That's not an excuse--again, this was the last season before the cap crunch really began, and they were likely going to get screwed with bonuses from Makar no matter what. They should've just leaned into it, done what they could and dealt with it next season like everyone else.

If they were so concerned about bonus overages they could've bought out or traded an excess salary or two before the season started.

Well, it would’ve further compounded the issues we’re seeing now. I think it’s relevant.

Either way… I’m not a big fan of going crazy at the trade deadline. It usually results in what happened to the Leafs last season.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well, it would’ve further compounded the issues we’re seeing now. I think it’s relevant.

Either way… I’m not a big fan of going crazy at the trade deadline. It usually results in what happened to the Leafs last season.

That's fine, but then don't add three players who actually make the team worse.

I'm not asking for Sakic to send a first to Lumbus for five minutes of Nick Foligno, and it isn't so much the deadline as the fact that there were obvious flaws in the lineup going into the season both at center and in goal, and he did nothing to address the former (which didn't kill him in the regular season but it sure as hell got him in the postseason) and only addressed the latter when he absolutely had to.

 

[henchman21]

Well, it would’ve further compounded the issues we’re seeing now. I think it’s relevant.

Either way… I’m not a big fan of going crazy at the trade deadline. It usually results in what happened to the Leafs last season.

IMO the trick isn't necessarily with deadlines vs offseasons, but evaluating timeframes to add when players would be the most useful. Typically (with some notable exceptions) the adds that push over the top are filling a center spot or a top 4RD or an ace goal scorer. Finding the right players with the proper term to fill into the window on good deals is the best way to go. Right now the Avs should be looking to add in those guys with 2-4 seasons on their deals. When you're in 22-23 and MacK's deal is coming do, you might add some pure rentals, but looking at 3 year guys too. If you're in 24-25, and if the Avs are contending, you're loading full up on rentals.

Tampa is the easy example. They loaded up at the deadline 2020 for guys that would give them two runs. Realistically, that is all they could really push hard at. This year when they needed a bit more, they added a pure rental. Now they have to re-tool a bit. If they add from trades or free agency, they'll either be looking at cheap 2 year deals (through the Cirelli, Killorn, Serg, and Cernak range) or 4-6 for guys that can lock in with the full core.

Avs have large holes at center, wing, and right defense. Arguably on back up center. Those need to get filled.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

IMO the trick isn't necessarily with deadlines vs offseasons, but evaluating timeframes to add when players would be the most useful. Typically (with some notable exceptions) the adds that push over the top are filling a center spot or a top 4RD or an ace goal scorer. Finding the right players with the proper term to fill into the window on good deals is the best way to go. Right now the Avs should be looking to add in those guys with 2-4 seasons on their deals. When you're in 22-23 and MacK's deal is coming do, you might add some pure rentals, but looking at 3 year guys too. If you're in 24-25, and if the Avs are contending, you're loading full up on rentals.

Tampa is the easy example. They loaded up at the deadline 2020 for guys that would give them two runs. Realistically, that is all they could really push hard at. This year when they needed a bit more, they added a pure rental. Now they have to re-tool a bit. If they add from trades or free agency, they'll either be looking at cheap 2 year deals (through the Cirelli, Killorn, Serg, and Cernak range) or 4-6 for guys that can lock in with the full core.

Avs have large holes at center, wing, and right defense. Arguably on back up center. Those need to get filled.

I’m happy with the way Sakic has managed things the last few years.

This is a big off-season though. There’s likely to be a good amount of turnover on the roster. There’s a couple holes to fill, especially upfront. I’m a little more bullish on the defence than most, so I’d be ok with mostly the same group there.

Sakic needs another Toews trade this off-season for a forward though, ideally a centre.

 

[henchman21]

I’m happy with the way Sakic has managed things the last few years.

This is a big off-season though. There’s likely to be a good amount of turnover on the roster. There’s a couple holes to fill, especially upfront. I’m a little more bullish on the defence than most, so I’d be ok with mostly the same group there.

Sakic needs another Toews trade this off-season for a forward though, ideally a centre.

I think he's been good, but not great. The team has had holes, and the clock is ticking. He's great at patching and finding solutions that are fairly cheap. Not great at putting a team over the top (yet). He's used 2 of his mulligans, and we will see how this offseason shapes things. If the window slams shut, I don't think history will be too kind to those mulligan years. If it stays open, those years will be forgotten if they win a Cup.

I think the defense will be plenty fine, and if trade capital has to be used... it should likely come from there. I know most are down on G, but he's the best contract on this team outside of MacKinnon and he's still great. Toews/Byram would both be available for me. Toews would hurt a lot this year, but on a great deal and worth a lot. Byram hurts 3-4 years from now, but worth more. I think the Avs defense could survive one of them being sent packing with relative ease.

Right now, Sakic really has his work cut out for him. Basically a week away from a core forward piece walking and a Vezina finalist goalie walking... neither have internal replacements. That is on top of some other obvious holes. This offseason is likely the offseason that splits whether Sakic falls in the good but not great GM category, or the elite category. Sadly that answer isn't likely to be known until next summer at the earliest or summer of 2023 at the latest.

 

[ASmileyFace]

I swear to god. If Landy rides off into the sunset on a 8x9 + kind of deal after all the talk of "guys who want to be here" and ends up winning a cup before the Avs I'm done with this f***ing sport.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

LeBrun: Kraken's Carey Price decision? Gabriel Landeskog's contract demands? Kirill Kaprizov's KHL offer?

Landeskog/Kraken

There’s certainly time for the Kraken to circle back but there hasn’t been a firm contact offer yet as of Tuesday morning from Seattle on star UFA winger Gabriel Landeskog.

I’m told the two sides did chat Sunday when the window opened for the Kraken to do so but as of now, that conversation hasn’t been rekindled since and I suspect Seattle GM Ron Francis probably wasn’t interested in the number Landeskog’s camp put out there.

But man, talk about a stud winger and captain material walking through the door if Francis decides to make an offer before Wednesday’s deadline.

One thing to consider: Francis has full ownership backing to spend right to the salary cap but I believe he doesn’t plan to do that right away, that he wants to keep some of his powder dry for next summer as well, that the flat cap environment will give him more opportunities that he wants to fully explore over the next few years. So, there’s a sense he doesn’t want to cap out right out of the gates and that’s probably the right way to go.

Meanwhile, the Avs and Landeskog remain far apart. But the door is not closed there, there’s still lots of time before July 28. I think the Kings and Blues would be among several potential suitors if Landeskog goes to market.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Kings, just like the Rangers are always in on star players.

 

[21]

Maybe he shouldn't sign? Better to play for a team where he is appreciated and prove the critics they were wrong? A bit like O'Reilly.

If Colorado management and a lot of fans don't respect him then it's time to move on. I don't want to see Landy being humiliated even more, hopefully he has pride and strength now to move on.

A lot of "experts" including Colorado management is indirectly putting the blame on Landy for the last seasons failures, this has to hurt.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Maybe he shouldn't sign? Better to play for a team where he is appreciated and prove the critics they were wrong? A bit like O'Reilly.

If Colorado management and a lot of fans don't respect him then it's time to move on. I don't want to see Landy being humiliated even more, hopefully he has pride and strength now to move on.

A lot of "experts" including Colorado management is indirectly putting the blame on Landy for the last seasons failures, this has to hurt.

A lot of unfounded comments in this post.

Management doesn’t respect him?
Management blaming him for last seasons failures?

Are these just your interpretations of the events?

 

[Belgican]

Maybe he shouldn't sign? Better to play for a team where he is appreciated and prove the critics they were wrong? A bit like O'Reilly.

If Colorado management and a lot of fans don't respect him then it's time to move on. I don't want to see Landy being humiliated even more, hopefully he has pride and strength now to move on.

A lot of "experts" including Colorado management is indirectly putting the blame on Landy for the last seasons failures, this has to hurt.

Where did you see that the management put the blame at Landy ? Maybe the captain takes a part of the blame himself ?

I thought crying to the media was not the way to act as a captain, that’s for sure

 

[LTC Pain]

Where did you see that the management put the blame at Landy ? Maybe the captain takes a part of the blame himself ?

I thought crying to the media was not the way to act as a captain, that’s for sure

I thought it, I posted it, therefore it is. Rinse and repeat, over and over. That's how BS hockey rumors start!

 

[missionAvs]

I can see the expansion draft presser tonight. The lights dim. The curtains rise. In the darkness is the dark silhouette of a very handsome man. The lights turn on and it's Landy in a Kraken jersey with the C on his chest. Contract is 10 AAV for 7 years.