I Think I Figured Out Marc Bergevin's Strategy...

[overlords]

Yeah, I guess so...

I was busy trying to find the stupid link and hadn't read your post.

Interesting to see Subban's numbers here too. I realize it's just basically plus minus stats but he really seems to have had a hard year this season. Really too bad because he started the year so well.

He's still really good, but he's not been at his usual norris worthy level. Everyone dropped off around the 10 game mark when we completely changed how we play. With the return to a smarter playstyle, we might see a more confident, creative subban come back.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's still really good, but he's not been at his usual norris worthy level. Everyone dropped off around the 10 game mark when we completely changed how we play. With the return to a smarter playstyle, we might see a more confident, creative subban come back.

And if we do this, I will not bash MT as much. He's still stubborn, still plays favourites, still makes wrongheaded decisions... But at least last year we played a style that allowed us to outshoot and outchance our opponents. This year its almost like MT doesn't think you need to score to win.

This roster is better than its shown. The system doesn't work. We have another gear and this team can play a hell of a lot better than it did this year. All that has to happen is MT gets out of the way and lets us play our way and not be a "grinding team."

 

[S Bah]

I believe his strategy involves winning the Stanley Cup without Crosby, Datsyuk or Ovechkin!

 

[Kriss E]

Yeah, I guess so...

I was busy trying to find the stupid link and hadn't read your post.

Interesting to see Subban's numbers here too. I realize it's just basically plus minus stats but he really seems to have had a hard year this season. Really too bad because he started the year so well.

Anyways, I don't get how people keep trying to defend Murray when its so clear from just watching the games that he's awful. All the stats do is confirm just how awful he is. He's absolutely terrible.

I don't understand this either. He's absolute garbage. I get it, people like his big body presence, but I don't get why they try to argue that he's actually good. I like is big presence too, it's cool to see him throw people around, and as much as I don't like to see anybody get hurt, it was somewhat refreshing to see us not the on the bad side of a dirty hit. But man, he's just a bad hockey player.

 

[Kriss E]

ITT people are realizing that Bergevin is more fit to be the GM of the Montreal Canadiens than the people of hfboards, what a shock.

Pretty sure there are better qualified people here actually.
General Manager is a position every big business has. Bergevin would never have gotten a GM position anywhere else, why? Because he isn't really qualified for a GM position. He has no administration, finance, or management degree, not even a minor.

It's always easy to criticize from the safety of your home. You have nobody to answer to and have nothing to consider. Things could be very different when you have someone asking results and giving your some directives. That being said, I'm pretty sure some guys here could do a good job managing. Not everybody here is a 15yo teenager.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Pretty sure there are better qualified people here actually.
General Manager is a position every big business has. Bergevin would never have gotten a GM position anywhere else, why? Because he isn't really qualified for a GM position. He has no administration, finance, or management degree, not even a minor.

It's always easy to criticize from the safety of your home. You have nobody to answer to and have nothing to consider. Things could be very different when you have someone asking results and giving your some directives. That being said, I'm pretty sure some guys here could do a good job managing. Not everybody here is a 15yo teenager.

And the whole "Bergevin is more fit to be the GM of the Montreal Canadiens than the people of hfboards" is nonsense to begin with. Its simply a tactic that some posters use to try to prevent criticism of a GM.

Bottom line: Every GM is going to make some good moves and some bad. Some are good GMs and some aren't. You don't actually have to be a GM to see this. Do you need to be an NHL coach to see that Tremblay was awful? No. Just like you don't need to be an NHL coach to see that MT is terrible. A HF poster doesn't have to be an NHL coach to be able to see this. We can see that there are better NHL coaches out there than the one we have now.

As for MB, too soon to know how good he's going to be. Some good, some bad. Let's see how he does in this offseason.

 

[Monctonscout]

And the whole "Bergevin is more fit to be the GM of the Montreal Canadiens than the people of hfboards" is nonsense to begin with. Its simply a tactic that some posters use to try to prevent criticism of a GM.

Bottom line: Every GM is going to make some good moves and some bad. Some are good GMs and some aren't. You don't actually have to be a GM to see this. Do you need to be an NHL coach to see that Tremblay was awful? No. Just like you don't need to be an NHL coach to see that MT is terrible. A HF poster doesn't have to be an NHL coach to be able to see this. We can see that there are better NHL coaches out there than the one we have now.

As for MB, too soon to know how good he's going to be. Some good, some bad. Let's see how he does in this offseason.

The problem with listening to people on here is they only look at the surface of the onion, not the 4-5 layers below.

When a move is made there are many layers to it. On here all you here is about age, size and stats. Just look at the reaction when MB added Weaver, how many of the armchair QB's touted it as a great trade? Yet so far it's one of the better deadline moves.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The problem with listening to people on here is they only look at the surface of the onion, not the 4-5 layers below.

When a move is made there are many layers to it. On here all you here is about age, size and stats. Just look at the reaction when MB added Weaver, how many of the armchair QB's touted it as a great trade? Yet so far it's one of the better deadline moves.

Trades involving unknowns like Weaver do sometimes pan out. We saw that with Josh Gorges.

Even with that move though, Cube is still in the lineup over Beaulieu. And that doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[Fozz]

Moneyball is such a scam. The reason the As won in 2002 is because of 3 guys that are never mentioned in the movie: Barry Zito, Mark Mulder and Tim Hudson. Best starting rotation in baseball. Period.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Moneyball is such a scam. The reason the As won in 2002 is because of 3 guys that are never mentioned in the movie: Barry Zito, Mark Mulder and Tim Hudson. Best starting rotation in baseball. Period.

Apart from Zito though, none had overpowering stuff. None were big strikeout guys who would've commanded big dollars. They flew under the radar as control pitchers.

Zito was the exception and he had serious control issues for most of his career.

 

[Habnot]

Pretty sure there are better qualified people here actually.
General Manager is a position every big business has. Bergevin would never have gotten a GM position anywhere else, why? Because he isn't really qualified for a GM position. He has no administration, finance, or management degree, not even a minor.

It's always easy to criticize from the safety of your home. You have nobody to answer to and have nothing to consider. Things could be very different when you have someone asking results and giving your some directives. That being said, I'm pretty sure some guys here could do a good job managing. Not everybody here is a 15yo teenager.

To think that people on this board would do a better job as GM of an NHL team proves the delusional world some of you live in.

- Bergevin played over 1000 NHL games
- Worked as an amateur and pro scout with the Hawks and Penguins for 5 years
- Appointed Director of Player Personnel with the Hawks in 2009
- Appointed Assistant GM with the Hawks in 2011

I couldn't imagine someone better trained to become an NHL GM - he's touched every facet of hockey operations.

Is your point that you need to have a professional designation to be an NHL GM? Hogwash - you can hire lawyers and business people to handle the contracts. If anything he has proved to be very shrewd managing contracts and the cap.

BTW Does Sakic or Shanahan or Linden have professional designations to be named President of Hockey Operations? Or were they hired for their experience in the game?

 

[Teufelsdreck]

If Bergevin is in over his head, what accounts for the Habs' promising start to the season? Is it pure luck? I doubt it.

 

[Scintillating10]

When I was a kid Sam Pollock had a deep and most talented front office in the league. Guys like Ron Caron, Claude Ruel, Scotty Bowman, Cliff Fletcher, etc... Now, Bergs has done same thing surround himself with best front office money can buy. Talent like Timmons, Waite, Rick Dudley, etc... Limited what we can spend on players, but not on front office staff. That's the new moneyball advantage. He's got the best pro-scout, best amateur scout and best goaltending coach.

 

[S Bah]

I believe his strategy involves winning the Stanley Cup without Crosby, Datsyuk or Ovechkin!

As I said above, Bergevin is going to win the Stanley Cup in Montreal as their GM! Pretty straight forward and clear objective, from all the moves he's made, win the SC as quickly as time permits, without jeopardizing the future as time permits! Oh and as often as possible, forgot that one.

 

[Habssince89]

Bergevin to me is trying to build a lockerroom free from drama and free from egos, not only because that will make us successful now, but now any draft picks coming up will be indoctrinated into the burgeoning culture that is developing in Montreal. So as much as we joke about character being a buzzword, I think it actually sums it up nicely

 

[S Bah]

Bergevin to me is trying to build a lockerroom free from drama and free from egos, not only because that will make us successful now, but now any draft picks coming up will be indoctrinated into the burgeoning culture that is developing in Montreal. So as much as we joke about character being a buzzword, I think it actually sums it up nicely

As it has for all the Habs Stanley Cup Championship teams in the past!

 

[Brainiac]

As it has for all the Habs Stanley Cup Championship teams in the past!

Dude, stop it. Your optimism is just too much. I sort of want to punch you in the face, but I know I would feel bad right after.

I can't be the only one here thinking that way? Who here wants to punch S Bah in the face?

...anyone... guys?

 

[NobleSix]

Bergevin has been the only GM that I've put my trust in since Serge Savard. I honestly think he's the man who will build us the best team we've seen in 20+ years. He's done a good job so far, but I think his plan is far from realized.

 

[Scintillating10]

Bergevin has been the only GM that I've put my trust in since Serge Savard. I honestly think he's the man who will build us the best team we've seen in 20+ years. He's done a good job so far, but I think his plan is far from realized.

The team is a good now, in top 6-8 in NHL and should be for next 10 years or so. We are one top player away from being top 1-3 clubs in the league. In the future that player maybe a Schebak or a McCarron, or combo of both. But for the present we need to package 2 average players, with a prospect for an all-star with a couple of top years left. An Eller/Elemin/Lehonen type package.

 

[Brainiac]

The team is a good now, in top 6-8 in NHL and should be for next 10 years or so. We are one top player away from being top 1-3 clubs in the league. In the future that player maybe a Schebak or a McCarron, or combo of both. But for the present we need to package 2 average players, with a prospect for an all-star with a couple of top years left. An Eller/Elemin/Lehonen type package.

Sorry, but that package is just not getting you an all-star player. Typical quantity for quality proposal that gets destroyed on the main board. Please, don't even try.

And McCarron or Scherback won't likely be good enough to put us over the top. But who knows, it's still soon to say much about them.

 

[Scintillating10]

Sorry, but that package is just not getting you an all-star player. Typical quantity for quality proposal that gets destroyed on the main board. Please, don't even try.

And McCarron or Scherback won't likely be good enough to put us over the top. But who knows, it's still soon to say much about them.

Can't go by main board, its not accurate. For fans are always over rating their players. Waste of time to go there. For example, last season I purposed a Vanek trade offering much more then we later on would give up...was laughed off the board. The season before I offered a first and top prospect for Ignila...again was laughed at, only for player to be traded later for much less.

 

[phoque taupe]

I think his strategy is :

-signing CHaracter players.
-thanking the old management for Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk
-dancing in the playoffs

 

[Brainiac]

Can't go by main board, its not accurate. For fans are always over rating their players. Waste of time to go there. For example, last season I purposed a Vanek trade offering much more then we later on would give up...was laughed off the board. The season before I offered a first and top prospect for Ignila...again was laughed at, only for player to be traded later for much less.

Well, the problem is not the main board, it's the posters all over these forums overrating their players big time. We're no different.

However, I do get what you mean with you two examples. Rentals were trending down big time in the last few years.

Your package would definitely have some value, but then again, it's not even a good deadline package. A team that is more or less tanking will want picks and prospects, not average but established players. And a team that is in playoffs contention won't trade a star player.

So you're back to a sort of 'regular' trade (i.e. not rental, but longer term). And for that, your package isn't worth much. Arguably, the other side can say that it's a 3rd line center, a #4 dman and a prospect that hasn't proven much. And you're asking the other team to take on almost 8M in salary. You won't get an 8M player back for that.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

I don't know where the comparison comes from. Moneyball was predicated on a tight low budget, as was the case in Oakland. Bergevin isn't hampered by a Molson who won't spend money to get talent.

 

[Richiebottles]

I don't know where the comparison comes from. Moneyball was predicated on a tight low budget, as was the case in Oakland. Bergevin isn't hampered by a Molson who won't spend money to get talent.

Literally the same exact thing my brother and I were saying about a week ago...

Thank you !