I don't Recognize this Malkin

[cheesedanish87]

So he declined rapidly in two months? Just poof, he’s a weaker and slower player after October? After putting up basically a 100 pt season last year? Injury prone Malkin is probably playing with an injury.

Lots of offensive players play well in October.

Teams aren't as structured in October.

As the season goes along teams become more structured and play with more urgency as the games become more important.

 

[Icarium]

Maybe he’s saving himself for the playoffs I don’t know. I do know that he hasn’t been the same player since he signed that contract. Unfortunately for us it is quite a bargain contract

Seriously? He had 42 goals and 98 points last season, you make it sound as if he became Toews or something.

 

[Doogle]

There's a lot of really dumb takes in this thread

 

[Jacob]

Does anyone recall a knee-on-knee collision against Columbus? Maybe I'm mis-remembering and thinking back to the Jenner one from years ago but I vaguely recall a hit earlier in the season where he got knocked down, looked like he was a little stung but continued the game. Might've even went to the locker but he came back.

Anyway, if there was one against Columbus, there seems to be a noticeable downturn in his play after the fact. In the following 3 games he went pointless and -7. In the next 5 games he had 3 points and was -3. Icetime looks about the same.

His October was some of the best hockey he's ever played. The wheels didn't just suddenly fall off in November.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

No, but he was hit in the head against Chicago (and hit his head on the ice) and Colorado, and tomahawked by Scandella. Never went to the room even though all three certainly meet those criteria.

At the beginning of the season he was asked if his knee was 100%, and said no. Asked to clarify afterward he said 1000%. Maybe an issue.

 

[treeni12]

unfortunately Malkin has had so many leg injuries maybe those are finally catching up to him

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Does anyone recall a knee-on-knee collision against Columbus? Maybe I'm mis-remembering and thinking back to the Jenner one from years ago but I vaguely recall a hit earlier in the season where he got knocked down, looked like he was a little stung but continued the game. Might've even went to the locker but he came back.

Anyway, if there was one against Columbus, there seems to be a noticeable downturn in his play after the fact. In the following 3 games he went pointless and -7. In the next 5 games he had 3 points and was -3. Icetime looks about the same.

His October was some of the best hockey he's ever played. The wheels didn't just suddenly fall off in November.

I don't remember that sequence, but don't forget he messed up his leg vs Philly in the playoffs. After that he looked like he does now

 

[Tom Hanks]

He’s had a couple bad games in a row yet still has 17 points in last 16 games. Overall heading for an 89 point season.

Yeah he has to tighten up his defensive game before the playoffs. Give him some steady wingers to get comfortable with and he should be good.

 

[StaalForOne]

Does anyone recall a knee-on-knee collision against Columbus? Maybe I'm mis-remembering and thinking back to the Jenner one from years ago but I vaguely recall a hit earlier in the season where he got knocked down, looked like he was a little stung but continued the game. Might've even went to the locker but he came back.

Anyway, if there was one against Columbus, there seems to be a noticeable downturn in his play after the fact. In the following 3 games he went pointless and -7. In the next 5 games he had 3 points and was -3. Icetime looks about the same.

His October was some of the best hockey he's ever played. The wheels didn't just suddenly fall off in November.

I don't recall that specific incident, but I do recall a few times this season where he was slow to get up after contact. Could be some minor nagging thing.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I don't recall that specific incident, but I do recall a few times this season where he was slow to get up after contact. Could be some minor nagging thing.

He might just need to adjust his game a little as he is getting older and is facing quicker players. Not as easy to go around players anymore. Got to use/trust his line mates more (still searching for the right wingers for him though). When hes having a bad game sometimes he'll keep trying to do things as if he was younger and that just adds to the goals going the other way.

 

[ronduguayshair]

We all have a right to an opinion, but damn. Yours deserves to be buried. I’m sure ‘Malkin doesn’t focus on the details of winning hockey’ is news to his trophy cabinet, and the team’s. Apparently a Calder, Hart Trophy, Pearson, two Art Ross’, a Conn Smythe, and three Stanley Cups is losing hockey. Leading the team many times when Crosby was injured or not playing his best, or when the other players had given up on the coach (Therrien, Bylsma, and Johnson all benefited from Malkin’s supreme play which enabled them to stick around after they had worn out their expiration date). Playing the best defensive hockey of his life in the critical games in all the Cup runs. Playing when he shouldn’t have, trying to help the team win.

One of the three best players of his generation and a certain Hall of Fame member. But you’re right, he’s a dumb hockey player who doesn’t focus on winning hockey.

Hey he’s a great player but he has his worts. All the penalties and the giveaways the last few years are unacceptable. He looks uninspired.

He has under performed this year. It’s ok to say so and appreciate his past achievements.

You just can’t say anything negative about said player. The fan base simply won’t allow it. It’s really fanboy and I don’t like it.

 

[LOGiK]

He might just need to adjust his game a little as he is getting older and is facing quicker players. Not as easy to go around players anymore. Got to use/trust his line mates more (still searching for the right wingers for him though). When hes having a bad game sometimes he'll keep trying to do things as if he was younger and that just adds to the goals going the other way.

He is 33 in 6 months. But I don't know if I'm sold that is would be the reason. Maybe, possibly, but I think it is some other issue.

 

[Icarium]

You just can’t say anything negative about said player.

Yes, those pages upon pages of "Malkin is terrible" after every loss are surely a figment of my imagination. People are bound to object when instead of saying " he needs to be better" posters go all dramatic and proclaim him finished and a total liability. Not least because we have been there with all of our stars. Many times in the last year alone. Maybe this time is the charm and the broken clock will turn out to be right. Or maybe it will be the usual "oops, I was so wrong to think he was finished" like the previous 437 times it happened with Sid, Geno, Phil, Letang, Murray or MAF.

 

[Strakanator]

Let Malkin play with Guentzel and he likely outscores Crosby this year. The wheels didn’t fall off Malkin. His linemates blow, and playing with 1-dimensional Kessel is really frustrating over time (3rd year now). Give Malkin 2 new good linemates and we see the Geno of old.

I think this should be #1 on our trade list. Fix the 2nd line. The Pens are an offense first team. Fix the offense and you mask a portion of the defensive problems. That has been the Pens m.o. for the 2 cup runs.

 

[turd]

Look, I realize that Malkin looks off and has looked so for a little while now, but the dude is still on pace for 89 points. I know he’s looked bad. I know his line has looked bad. I know he’s taken way too many penalties. But damn... there’s no less than 30 other teams who would be happy with this “this Malkin.”

 

[LOGiK]

Look, I realize that Malkin looks off and has looked so for a little while now, but the dude is still on pace for 89 points. I know he’s looked bad. I know his line has looked bad. I know he’s taken way too many penalties. But damn... there’s no less than 30 other teams who would be happy with this “this Malkin.”

Well I think his +/- speaks for this season pretty well. It's his worst +/- of his career.

-16 right now with 50 pts isn't terrible, but it is pretty rough. Especially since his best + was 18. So he is at the other end of his best +/-

 

[Tom Hanks]

Well I think his +/- speaks for this season pretty well. It's his worst +/- of his career.

-16 right now with 50 pts isn't terrible, but it is pretty rough. Especially since his best + was 18. So he is at the other end of his best +/-

Yeah it’s whats happening at the other end of the ice which is the main problem. I think the right winger from the outside could really help that. Maybe he needs more help than before.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Look, I realize that Malkin looks off and has looked so for a little while now, but the dude is still on pace for 89 points. I know he’s looked bad. I know his line has looked bad. I know he’s taken way too many penalties. But damn... there’s no less than 30 other teams who would be happy with this “this Malkin.”

His +/- reflects the reality of his play. Both ends of the ice count. Only part that's unfair is that the Penguins are incapable of not allowing an empty-net-goal when we go 6-on-5, but that affects a lot of players. It also doesn't incorporate the silly penalties he is taking.

Geno is my favorite player and I hope this turns around. But I'm really concerned.

 

[LOGiK]

His +/- reflects the reality of his play. Both ends of the ice count. Only part that's unfair is that the Penguins are incapable of not allowing an empty-net-goal when we go 6-on-5, but that affects a lot of players. It also doesn't incorporate the silly penalties he is taking.

Geno is my favorite player and I hope this turns around. But I'm really concerned.

I hope he turns it around too. My Geno autographed rookie card and stanley cup poster will lose value if he takes a nose dive now! The hell I went through to meet him will not have been for nothing!

 

[Jacob]

Kessel’s +/- is dog shit too.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I find it interesting that in hockey, we still go by the view that +/- is a pointless and horribly flawed stat.

Whereas basketball, by all accounts a more analytically rich sport, is actually using +/- as a trendy stat to point out the true effectiveness of players and lineups.

I do think that hockey needs a better way to weight special teams and empty-net situations in +/- but color me unconvinced by arguments that it's meaningless.

 

[LOGiK]

I find it interesting that in hockey, we still go by the view that +/- is a pointless and horribly flawed stat.

Whereas basketball, by all accounts a more analytically rich sport, is actually using +/- as a trendy stat to point out the true effectiveness of players and lineups.

I do think that hockey needs a better way to weight special teams and empty-net situations in +/- but color me unconvinced by arguments that it's meaningless.

The only reason it's rough to use +/- is because it's a team sport. Just because you have dog shit players on your line isn't fair to the lines that don't have dog shit players.
BUT, same with points in general. Different goalies, different line-mates, different roles. There are so many variables. So you can have 100 assists one year because everyone finishes, then the next nobody can finish and you lose 75% of your point production. Is that your fault?

In every sport, stats can be manipulated for any interpretation. Sports are not infallible with whatever stat method they use.

 

[Icarium]

Malkin and Kessel have been slacking defensively a lot this season, no doubt, but still it would be interesting how much they play with Letang-Dumo compared to Jake and Sid. The gulf in quality between our top D pairing and the other two is huge, and was even bigger before Petterson arrived. Again, this is not to say it's all the defence's fault, Geno and Phil need to be a lot better in our zone for sure but I don't think the difference in their defensive efforts compared to Crosby's is as big as +/- indicates.

Also, we seem to be allowing empty net goal every time we lose in regulation and those two are always on the ice when we need to score a goal and time is running out.

P.S. Guentzel is only +7 but Sid is +19? How did that happen?!?

 

[ChaosAgent]

The only reason it's rough to use +/- is because it's a team sport. Just because you have dog **** players on your line isn't fair to the lines that don't have dog **** players.
BUT, same with points in general. Different goalies, different line-mates, different roles. There are so many variables. So you can have 100 assists one year because everyone finishes, then the next nobody can finish and you lose 75% of your point production. Is that your fault?

In every sport, stats can be manipulated for any interpretation. Sports are not infallible with whatever stat method they use.

Yes, for sure. Points, especially secondary assists, are an arbitrary statistic as well. I'd have to look more into it but I'm pretty sure basketball has incorporated all sorts of little adjustments and variations into the +/- statistic to adjust to the quality of your teammates on the floor, etc.

To answer this question: Geno has been bad this season. Not only by his standards, but as a $9.5M player. If I were to be told that we'd get this version of Geno next year, I'd say that the Penguins team would be better off if he decided that it was time that he represent Magnitogorsk again (I do think he's going to do that after this contract is over) and we get $9.5M to spend elsewhere. But I'd love him for everything that he did here.

Having said that, I'm holding out hope he bounces back.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Malkin and Kessel have been slacking defensively a lot this season, no doubt, but still it would be interesting how much they play with Letang-Dumo compared to Jake and Sid. The gulf in quality between our top D pairing and the other two is huge, and was even bigger before Petterson arrived. Again, this is not to say it's all the defence's fault, Geno and Phil need to be a lot better in our zone for sure but I don't think the difference in their defensive efforts compared to Crosby's is as big as +/- indicates.

Also, we seem to be allowing empty net goal every time we lose in regulation and those two are always on the ice when we need to score a goal and time is running out.

P.S. Guentzel is only +7 but Sid is +19? How did that happen?!?

Sid plays with Letang approximately double the amount of time the Phil and Geno at ES