Proposal: I Came to Trade Gardiner Not to Bury Him

[al secord]

"Overthink?" Did he ever "UNDERthink?"

 

[francis246]

Matt frattin has nothing to do with this conversation so why are you bringing him up?

because he is who i blame for the 2013 loss, not jake gardiner

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

because he is who i blame for the 2013 loss, not jake gardiner

Lol I’ve now heard every excuse to defend the analytics darling Jake Gardiner.

 

[francis246]

Lol I’ve now heard every excuse to defend the analytics darling Jake Gardiner.

IF HE SCORED THAT WITH 3:20 left, they would not have came back. That is what changed the tide. You need to go back and watch the tape.

 

[Morgs]

Lol Gardiner was great until game 7. No desire to trade him from me unless he's a piece to get a clear top-pairing RHD.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Lol Gardiner was great until game 7. No desire to trade him from me unless he's a piece to get a clear top-pairing RHD.

All i can do is attempt to detail a well thought out rational argument, i guess i dont have a reply to "lol" tho.

 

[Beleafer4]

"Overthink?" Did he ever "UNDERthink?"

Have you ever heard of ''analysis paralysis"?

 

[CanadasTeam]

He stayin' -- just sayin'

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Thank God our management and coaches aren't dumb enough to give up on a great player over a bad game

 

[Community]

He stayin' -- just sayin'

Reasons like this is why Babcock is awesome in my opinion. By saying what he did I think he did a good job taking away some of the mental problems it would cause Gardiner while saying that he needs to use this loss to motivate him.

Whether or not Gardiner stays (he probably stays), Babcock looks at every outcome as how to motivate him and the rest of oir team, but he's smart enough to know when it can hurt them.

A guy like Carlyle had no problem throwing a single player under the bus for a loss like this.

 

[JGuardz]

As a huge Jake Gardiner fan, I think I'm okay with trading Jake because we have very good options on the left side without him.

Rielly - ???
Dermott - zaitsev
Borgman - hainsey

Trade Jake for a 4th line centre (Brian Boyle?) and some picks, package the picks for an upgrade on RD. Or, trade Jake for an equivalent RD (unlikely).

 

[Gallagbi]

Lol I’ve now heard every excuse to defend the analytics darling Jake Gardiner.

For a guy who is hanging on every play of that game you can't tell me you forgot Frattin's breakaway miss with ~3 min left and a 2 goal lead.

 

[New User Name]

Why haven't they tried Jake playing forward?

 

[Gallagbi]

Why haven't they tried Jake playing forward?

Because it's dumb?

 

[PromisedLand]

Rielly wasn't on that team yet. He was sent back to Junior.

What I meant was that Burke did draft Rielly

 

[RoadWarrior]

I can't be the only person here who thinks Jake should be converted to play left wing.

 

[Kiwi]

Unless Gardiner is going for a top 4D of equal ability with more term on his deal (highly unlikely) I've got zero interest in moving him

I like Dermott but he's still a kid and the last thing I want is to drown him hurting his development in the process playing his second season in the league, especially when his partner will probably be Zaitsev who's significantly worse than Gardiner

I'd like us to settle Gardiner's future before next season starts, preferably his resigning

 

[RoadWarrior]

Unless Gardiner is going for a top 4D of equal ability with more term on his deal (highly unlikely) I've got zero interest in moving him

I like Dermott but he's still a kid and the last thing I want is to drown him hurting his development in the process playing his second season in the league, especially when his partner will probably be Zaitsev who's significantly worse than Gardiner

I'd like us to settle Gardiner's future before next season starts, preferably his resigning

Jake will never be allowed to play again on the leafs blueline. The fans will destroy him. He needs to be moved either to another position on the team or to another team.

 

[Kiwi]

Jake will never be allowed to play again on the leafs blueline. The fans will destroy him. He needs to be moved either to another position on the team or to another team.

Doing stupid **** because good portion of the fan base don't have a clue what there talking about isn't exactly a strategy I'm keen on following

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Let's face it, Gardiner is not going the a Leaf in 2019/20. If he's good his price will be too high for the Leafs to retain when he's a UFA. But if Gardiner continues with his erratic play at age 28, the Leafs will move on from him.
Leafs can go with Reilly, Dermot and hopefully Borgman in 2019/20 at LHD.
But in 2018/19 the Leafs might need Gardiner but likely not past next year.

 

[7even]

I'd be down to swap him for Tanev. The problem with trading Jake Gardiner is that it's going to be a hard trade to win, and if you're moving as big a piece Jake is on this team, you need to win that trade.

 

[ToneDog]

If you assume Stamkos means no one will ever sign with us I don't know what to tell you that won't be deleted by Mods. Actually I can probably get away with saying that suggestion is foolish and built on negativity. When are people going to grasp their psychic predictions have no value in a debate? Only little kids think this is any kind of argument and eventually the out grow it.

We could actually afford a 10 million D-man if he is replacing Gardiner.

I never said they were better than Gardiner, I'm sorry to burst your bubble but you don't seem to make many rational statements in your post.

Generally speaking you are not going to have many meaningful dialogues if you invent things people say and then argue against it. I have to wonder how that has worked for you in real life?

Funny just heard Babs on Overdrive and he ended with "I don't care who you are, you want to play in Toronto". Went on to say how much he loves it here and that free agents will want to sign here. I wonder what he was hinting at.

 

[Trapper]

The issues with your proposal is that it is ridiculous, see the Leafs need a top 4 D man, trading Jake Gardiner does not address that need, in fact trading Jake Gardiner makes that need bigger, unless he goes in a blockbuster deal to bring in an impact guy

If the plan is to let Gardiner walk for free next summer that is a major, major fail. I am forgiving to a point, the JVR situation is over but I will be highly critical of management if they allow this to happen for a 2nd year in a row.
Had we moved JVR last summer, we could possibly have an extra 1st + Gardiner to make an impactful deal moving forward now but that ship has sailed.
Either sign Jake to a deal or move him now.

 

[drewjenks]

“It’s a knee jerk reaction,” “let’s not have our judgement clouded by one bad game,” these will be the arguments in defense of Jake Gardiner, I’m not here to bury Jake Gardiner I’m here to try and trade him, and to convince you that it is the rationale sober minded option. Even if we forgive that in the biggest game of his life he folded like a cheap-nay a turn of the century train hopping hobo’s-suit (a pretty damn big concession that some of the sunshine, lollipop and rainbow members of the fan base will make) he still needs to go.

The biggest problem with Gardiner is his contract status and his position on the LHS depth chart. I want you to go along with me and entertain a couple of thoughts here:

(1) Travis Dermott will be a top 4 d man, I don’t think it’s unreasonable this happens next year(hear me out before panicking about that last point.)

(2) Jake will seek a contract worth an excess of 4 million and not stay on as a third pairing powerplay specialist and if he did…

(3) By the time the Leafs are contending a top 4 RHD will have been added or developed and he will likely be capable on the powerplay (ie/ Carlson or Liljiegren) and between this mystery d man, and Rielly, Jake’s hypothetical roll would be superfluous.

(4) Burning more assets in the fashion likely done with JVR isn’t ideal unless they make noise in the playoffs next year and frankly the team won’t look hugely different and will still be in the division from Hell. The Leafs will have many cracks at this if they play their cards right, I think they must look at the long game this offseason and build towards a permanent fix on D. So even if Dermott isn’t ready to be thrown to the wolves in the top 4(although his underlying numbers against low end competition suggest he is ready for a bigger role) this is a bullet the Leafs should bite next year if the Gardiner move is for futures.

The biggest issue with trading Gardiner is that ideally he would be swapped for a RHD, so who is available? Pretty much no one, there are pipe dreams about including Gardiner in a Doughty proposal but if the Kings trade their Norris winning defenseman it will hurt a lot more to acquire him then Jake and a couple lottery tickets. Speaking of lottery tickets however:

Scenario 1: They can try and trade Gardiner for a top 10 pick (think the Stepan deal last season), now a Stepan(or before that Schneider) type trade requires a perfect storm and the two biggest possibilities here involve the Oilers(pick #9) and the Islanders(pick #10). However, even these are imperfect; the Oilers would be overstocked at LHD with Nurse, Klefbom and Sekera, the latter two they could look at flipping afterwards, as Gardiner fills a dire need for them as an offensive option on the back end. And the Islanders could be looking at a full scale youth movement if Tavares walks, wherein parting with a top 10 pick looks unwise, but they badly need any help they can get on defense as well.

If the Leafs make this deal they hope one of the highly touted right RHD prospects Noah Dobson or Evan Bouchard are still on the board. Alternatively Brady Tkachuk (although his ranking fluctuates all over the top 10) would be a wonderful addition he can play left wing, if there was ever going to be a player who could knock Hyman off the top line he is the man, or center where he would solve the Leafs center issue once and for all not to mention he’d bring some much needed grit to this roster. This is definitely a move for the long game but if you pull it off you simply try to sign either a stop gap RHD or a player like Carlson, if you get Carlson you may argue the Leafs become too deep on RHD between players (include immovable object Nikita Zaistev) and prospects, to which I would ask: is there such a thing?

Scenario 2: Trade him for an LHD who plays a different roll. Nicklas Hjalmarsson has a lot of mileage on him but he’s still only 30 and he would be a massive improvement to the roster of serviceable DFD’s. He’d help out on the penalty kill and if Hainsey finds himself on the third pairing next year these two could be relied on in key situations *cough*holding a third period game seven lead*cough* and he would be a good fall back if Dermott struggles in the top 4 since he can play up and down the lineup. Arizona GM John Chayka does this because his calculator tells him to. Hjalmarsson has a year left as well but would likely be more affordable to extend and as a shutdown defenseman would fill a roll long-term.

Alternatively, and bear with me a second, you try to get Klefbom out of Edmonton. I know, I know, LHD depth chart, Dermott, everything else I said, etc. etc. But this is a guy who played like a number one defenseman during the 2016-2017 season and is signed long-term to just over 4 million (there is a risk here since he played very poorly this year and the Leafs would have 8 million tied up in two defensemen who fit that bill) if he regained his form the Leafs could pull off the next great fleecing of Peter Chiarelli and he does play a different style from Jake Gardiner. This is just another situation where the team ends up with a surplus of defensive talent, and maybe moves past someone at some point, but the Leafs aren’t on the clock to lose a player for nothing by this time next year so it’s certainly an improvement.

The Oilers either make this move for the reasons listed in the first trade proposal involving them or they don’t do it because they don’t want to sell low on Klefbom...I’m kidding obviously, selling low is Chiarelli’s favorite pastime. Oilers also might be concerned about locking Gardiner up, especially at potentially a higher cap hit then Klefbom but I think between their desperation for a powerplay quarterback and Gardiner’s opportunity to light it up with McDavid the stars could align here.

Scenario 3: Flip him for similarly aged oft-injured RHD Chris Tanev. Tanev, apparent inability to stay healthy notwithstanding, would be the perfect fit for the Leafs but I’m not sure this deal makes much sense for the Canucks who, without Tanev, would lack a high end defensive defenseman themselves and are still in their pseudo rebuild wherein it makes the most sense to part with Tanev for picks…I think…I can’t really get into the mind of Jim Benning…he is a rare breed and outside of my psychoanalytic capabilities.

There it is my long winded, clear headed assessment of Gardiner’s future or lack thereof with the Maple Leafs. Gardiner had one of the worst big game performances ever in game 7 and it wasn’t just the one game, that was a culmination of a career of making the occasional bad play that was often overlooked in favor of the good he brings, but in the biggest pressure situation he simply could not be trusted and the Bruins had the book on him and applied the right amount of pressure to turn that “occasional bad play” into a series losing debacle. I looked at this from as objective a view point I could and I think this is the right decision, let me know if you agree.

Gardiner needs to move back to LW....where he played in college....so he can become the 75 point playmaker & Selke nominee he was meant to be.

Gardiner - Kadri - Kappy/Brown = pretty damn good shut down line.

And DeHaan should replace him on LD (if we can sign him)....he's young & his game should help stabalize the back end....2 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Gallagbi]

Gardiner needs to move back to LW....where he played in college....so he can become the 75 point playmaker & Selke nominee he was meant to be.

Gardiner - Kadri - Kappy/Brown = pretty damn good shut down line.

And DeHaan should replace him on LD (if we can sign him)....he's young & his game should help stabalize the back end....2 birds with 1 stone.

He was a D in College. He hasn't played forward since HS.