Post-Game Talk: Hutch gets 1st win

[nsleaf]

So I’ve been travelling for work and haven’t seen much of the games or team play.

Have we unplugged the toaster in the bathroom and started planning the parade now? Feels a little like that’s what’s happening

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Good on Hutch he made 3 big time breakaway saves to keep us in the game. More solid games from Matty, Hyman and Marner - now that is a powerful line. Willy and Kappy were off but they got their wake up calls. Dirty knee from AA really dirty hockey. Muzzy did nothing wrong. He made a clean hit and Mantha challenged him to a fight. He went like a good trooper should. When you are in a fight bad things happen man. Don't ask for one if you can take the heat. I always tell my kids when you make a decision to fight that's fine but be prepared to get knocked unconscious. If you can't handle that reality then don't dance. Saw Muzzy and Courtney at GolfTown on Queensway near Sherway yesterday picking up some XMAS swag. TaylorMade is moving away from the M series to a brand new driver. Going to wait to New Year to see it.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Look I'm not condoning slamming dudes to the ice but let's not pretend he's the first to do it...Most 'fights' these days in the NHL end in hugging matches where one guy gets wrestled down. Most of the time being grappled down is actually safer than getting punched in the head and accumulating CTE..

I understand, and wrestling someone to the ice is fine and normal. Muzzin's move was far more violent than your normal grapple though. It was more of a judo-style throw.

Either way, I don't like what Muzz did there and I don't think that's acceptable even in the realm of already-illegal fighting.

 

[willmma]

Intentional or not, Muzzin's wrestling move is dangerous. A suspension would not have been out of order.

Muzzin didnt put his leg behind AA. A put is leg in front of Muzzin when he put him in a headlock and started punching him.
Muzzin wasn't "kicking his opponent's feet from under him" nor did he have any "forward motion of his leg"

Muzzin was just pushing him off.

This is a slewfoot. don't conflate the two.

Better know a sports term: Slew-footing

 

[Commander Clueless]

Muzzin didnt put his leg behind AA. A put is leg in front of Muzzin when he put him in a headlock and started punching him.
Muzzin wasn't "kicking his opponent's feet from under him" nor did he have any "forward motion of his leg"

Muzzin was just pushing him off.

This is a slewfoot. don't conflate the two.

Better know a sports term: Slew-footing

I....didn't say any of that...

Did you quote the right person?

 

[TDotMassive]

Sure, but that mostly so that you look like your doing something. The actual effectiveness of the moves is another debate IMO. The only things people really wanted to see were things like Matthews and Marner. Or Matthews, Tavares and Marner which Babcock did after every PK btw.

I think Keefe tends to overindulged in this. I mean it's ended up with Hyman back with Matthews now and that was one of things Babcock was taken to task with most.

The biggest difference is Keefe dynamically sorts the lines, on the fly, to suite whatever is working best in that moment... some nights some guys got it, and some guys don't... Keefe's dynamic lines maximize playing the guys who got it that night, mixing and matching to optimize the lines at any particular moment...

Babcock had static lines, that failed when guys weren't playing well, and he didn't have the mind to dynamically adjust as quickly as Keefe does. So Hyman on the Matthews line made sense that game, but they won't be glued together no matter what happens as Babs would have. Keefe runs things in a way like Nick Nurse does with the Raps, a constant dynamic adjustment in positions, players and roles to optimize the team at any given moment.

Anyway... dynamic lines and positions with Keefe vs static lines and positions with Babs. I think the results speak for themselves.

 

[TDotMassive]

How did you infer this from my post?

It's called magic.

 

[willmma]

I....didn't say any of that...

Did you quote the right person?

Nope. Sorry.
Meant for @Kingstondude84 who quoted the definition

 

[TDotMassive]

Intentional or not, Muzzin's wrestling move is dangerous. A suspension would not have been out of order.

Seems like Muzzin was just defending himself after being attacked by a rabid animal for throwing a legal hit...

 

[Commander Clueless]

Seems like Muzzin was just defending himself after being attacked by a rabid animal for throwing a legal hit...

I agree entirely, he was defending himself from Mantha. That's not the problem I have with the event.

The problem was the method in which he defended himself.

Grappling Mantha to the ice is one thing, like you see happen all the time. Throwing him to the ice like that judo-style is taking things up a notch - too far in my books. That's all I mean, and it's why I think a suspension would have been justified. It's a move that has a high potential for serious injury as it results in a rapid and uncontrolled fall to the ice.

The NHL decided the unsportsmanlike conduct and roughing penalties sufficed. That's fine. I'm just saying were I Parros, both Muzzin and Athanasiou would be sitting a couple games.

If you think that style of wrestling is okay (within the confines of a fighting/roughing penalty of course), feel free to disagree.

Fortunately for the Leafs, the NHL saw it differently.

 

[TDotMassive]

I agree entirely, he was defending himself from Mantha. That's not the problem I have with the event.

The problem was the method in which he defended himself.

Grappling Mantha to the ice is one thing, like you see happen all the time. Throwing him to the ice like that judo-style is taking things up a notch - too far in my books. That's all I mean, and it's why I think a suspension would have been justified. It's a move that has a high potential for serious injury as it results in a rapid and uncontrolled fall to the ice.

The NHL decided the unsportsmanlike conduct and roughing penalties sufficed. That's fine. I'm just saying were I Parros, both Muzzin and Athanasiou would be sitting a couple games.

If you think that style of wrestling is okay (within the confines of a fighting/roughing penalty of course), feel free to disagree.

Fortunately for the Leafs, the NHL saw it differently.

I still think it was just a back and forth grapple... it's easy to sit back on your TV and say that, but when a guy is trying to take you down, if you can take him down first you do. If Muzzin didn't drop him first, then it would have been Muzzin on the ice. I maintain Muzzin did nothing wrong...

 

[ruaware41]

I understand, and wrestling someone to the ice is fine and normal. Muzzin's move was far more violent than your normal grapple though. It was more of a judo-style throw.

Either way, I don't like what Muzz did there and I don't think that's acceptable even in the realm of already-illegal fighting.

People really need to stop mentioning this judo nonsense.

Muzzin is a hockey player, he doesn't know what Judo is and constantly mentioning this judo crap to paint a worse picture on what Muzzin did implies that he spent time mastering it to make it as evil as possible.

You should also mention the fact that before most takedowns one player doesn't have the other in a head lock.

Take this example:
Fighting is a regular occurrence.
Fighting comes with risks.
Most fights don't end in knockouts
One NHL player inadvertently used his hips to generate power in his punch and knocked someone out so bad their career is ruined.

HFboards: omg yes fighting is dangerous and yes punching is part of the game but not like that! He punched too hard and it aligns with what I learned in taikwondo which means that this NHL player should feel more guilt for this punch than other NHL players because obviously he trained for this and knew exactly what would happen! Obviously if anything we should focus on the bigger issue here of what we permit instead of focusing on someone executing what we permit to perfection but nah f*** that"

Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? If an action is wrong, it's wrong. It doesn't only become much more wrong when it leads to a negative unexpected outcome by sheer unplanned luck.

It's like telling a kid to go pick berries from the trees for his friends with no oversight but when he ends up poisoning his friends everyone shouts bloody murder and goes after his head for that particular incident and acts like he should carry much more guilt than any other kid that picked berries for their friends with no oversight instead of criticizing the act of children picking random berries unsupervised.

All my life I've tried to be objective as possible and even conceded based on my review of the play that AA was probably not intentionally looking to knee Kerfoot but the way HFboards has ganged up on leaf fans over this incident that was a play that happens regularly without this unforeseen outcome has been nothing beyond pathetic and shocking. It's made me lose a lot of faith in the objectivity of these boards and just supports the idea of an anti leafs bias.

 

[Commander Clueless]

People really need to stop mentioning this judo nonsense.

I don't actually think he used martial arts on him intentionally.

What I'm saying is that is a dangerous move, even in the context of a normal hockey fight. So yes, I would have been entirely okay with Muzzin getting suspended for it.

The NHL has set a precedent of using suspensions to discourage dangerous behaviour with the blindside hit phenomenon. I'm saying I think this would be a similarly appropriate opportunity. I'm not suggesting they send him to jail or anything.

Obviously the NHL disagrees with me, which is fine.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I still think it was just a back and forth grapple... it's easy to sit back on your TV and say that, but when a guy is trying to take you down, if you can take him down first you do. If Muzzin didn't drop him first, then it would have been Muzzin on the ice. I maintain Muzzin did nothing wrong...

Oh sure, I don't blame Muzzin for wrasslin' Mantha.

I just think his method could easily have justified further discipline, even if he didn't intend to hurt Mantha.


The NHL disagrees, again, which is fine.

I just don't think we want those sort of throws to the ice in the game at all.