HF Habs: HuGo moves approval rates

[ReHabs]

Neither Nicholas or Belfry can either. It's simply not a legitimate argument.

Belfry isn’t a typical skills coach. He claims to leverage his observation ability and offers a “unique” approach— he’s an alternative and a feel-good story.

Nicholas played Div3 college, which is rather high compared to MPP.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6216140

Losing 8-0 to a teenage boy’s hockey team says it all.

Stop trying to force me into a corner and paint me as some sexist. I think I’ve been fair so far so I’ll leave it at that.

MPP isn't the main skills coach though, that isn't why she was hired, the one with the track record is Nicholas. How many elite coaches want to be under other elite coaches ? It's normal to hire based on potential and interest. They've been interested in Poulin for a while, so clearly they saw something. Like Kent Hughes, no managerial experience, but Gorton clearly saw something there. The organization has been hiring people in key positions with no experience since Gorton was hired, but it seems pretty obvious the hires have a rationale behind them.

If she was hired for anything to do off-ice or even tactics coach I wouldnt call this a stunt. But alas, it is her first job as a hockey consultant and it’s with the fkn MTL Canadiens. You don’t think this is a stunt? Be my guest.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I really wonder why some people didn't like the hiring of Marie-Philip Poulin.

Her name isn't Mary-Phillip Poultry

 

[Andrei79]

Belfry isn’t a typical skills coach. He claims to leverage his observation ability and offers a “unique” approach— he’s an alternative and a feel-good story.

Nicholas played Div3 college, which is rather high compared to MPP.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6216140

Losing 8-0 to a teenage boy’s hockey team says it all.

Stop trying to force me into a corner and paint me as some sexist. I think I’ve been fair so far so I’ll leave it at that.

Im not painting you into anything, I'm offering you legitimate counterpoints. Why are you interpreting this ?

Your point about MPP was there was a massive difference between levels of play, which only became more massive from college and on. Neither Belfry or Nicholas can do anything close to what these NHLers can do, which is your argument, not mine. Belfry isn't a feel-good story anymore than any successfully person. If you look at his methods, he's very analytical, but he still teaches every basic mechanic that he's not supposed to be able to (according to you). For some reason, you keep doubling down on this notion, why ?

Belfry isn’t a typical skills coach. He claims to leverage his observation ability and offers a “unique” approach— he’s an alternative and a feel-good story.

Nicholas played Div3 college, which is rather high compared to MPP.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6216140

Losing 8-0 to a teenage boy’s hockey team says it all.

Stop trying to force me into a corner and paint me as some sexist. I think I’ve been fair so far so I’ll leave it at that.


If she was hired for anything to do off-ice or even tactics coach I wouldnt call this a stunt. But alas, it is her first job as a hockey consultant and it’s with the fkn MTL Canadiens. You don’t think this is a stunt? Be my guest.

Was the MSL hire a stunt ?

 

[Runner77]

True. No one knows how much influence he had on the ultimate draft decisions adopted by either the Rangers or the Canadiens. The only thing we know is what his opinion was on this year’s draft and how well he articulated same. But he is now an important part of a now competent and insightful team that is clearly steering the team out a long phase of irrelevancy and towards the promised land of competitiveness. The NHL, like many businesses, adopts a copy cat mentality. Couple that imperative with the difficulty of finding good leaders and other teams will start poaching members of our management team. If the Canadiens’ turn around is successful as most forecast it will be, I suspect Boborov will be a very desirable target by other teams similarly looking to reverse their fortunes. Its the Belichick syndrome.

Belichik is on a whole other level of success and has a track record to prove it, which Bobrov does not have.

Some stuff we’re just not privy to as it’s happening behind the scenes. We also have a shared responsibility in the amateur scouting dept between Bobrov and Lapointe — who’s doing what and who should be credited?

All we have right now is Bobrov’s spotty record with the Rangers and a video that shows Bobrov making a pitch to draft Slaf. It’s going to take a lot more than that to put him on a pedestal.

And of course, the fallout from this draft is years away, so how are we going to know today, what kind of job he’s done?

 

[ReHabs]

Im not painting you into anything, I'm offering you legitimate counterpoints. Why are you interpreting this ?

Your point about MPP was there was a massive difference between levels of play, which only became more massive from college and on. Neither Belfry or Nicholas can do anything close to what these NHLers can do, which is your argument, not mine. Belfry isn't a feel-good story anymore than any successfully person. If you look at his methods, he's very analytical, but he still teaches every basic mechanic that he's not supposed to be able to (according to you). For some reason, you keep doubling down on this notion, why ?



Was the MSL hire a stunt ?

The MSL hire was a no-risk move in a lost season. He was an interim hire, if it didn't work out that would've been just fine for the tank. It worked out, so they extended him.

MPP is an inconsequential hire -- she has no coaching experience and has never played at even half this level. If she is somehow value-added that's another feather in HuGo's cap -- but I don't see why anybody needs to be estatic and cheering for this hire. She's an unknown figure in coaching and has next to no experience.

If you want to hang your hat on the fact that the Belfry guy exists and Barb Underhill is a known skating coach be my guest -- both are exceptional (very few examples exist) and had nevertheless long track records before being known as NHL-level coaches. MPP has no track record and it's not like you can point to her losing to a boys hockey team 8-0 as good experience either.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Belichik is on a whole other level of success and has a track record to prove it, which Bobrov does not have.

Some stuff we’re just not privy to as it’s happening behind the scenes. We also have a shared responsibility in the amateur scouting dept between Bobrov and Lapointe — who’s doing what and who should be credited?

All we have right now is Bobrov’s spotty record with the Rangers and a video that shows Bobrov making a pitch to draft Slaf. It’s going to take a lot more than that to put him on a pedestal.

And of course, the fallout from this draft is years away, so how are we going to know today, what kind of job he’s done?

Time will tell.

 

[Runner77]

Time will tell.

Exactly.

 

[BLONG7]

They had to make a ton of changes and hires, to reset the organization. Picking a direction for the first time in 10 years, was a great start.
So far so good.......................but in all honesty they are going to need 3 years, before being judged in my opinion.
The heavy lifting with the rotten cap situation IS the heavy lifting, and we are still in tough with that.

The main reason I like this new regime is there are TWO of them, running the show. Mol$on has taken a step back thank god, and the former GM was sent packing.......

Better days ahead.....building a team requires some brain power, this new group will NOT lay it all on their goalie, with the hope to make the playoffs, and anything can happen......Sustainable is the new plan. Not hope.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Exactly.

But if he played any determinative role in our avoidance of the mediocrity that is Wright, then he has earned my approbation.

 

[Runner77]

But if played any determinative role in our avoidance of the mediocrity that is Wright, then he has earned my approbation.

That's just the thing. We don't know what Wright will be. Nor Slafkovsky.

Remember when most despised Tkachuk on this forum? How did that turn out?

 

[Andrei79]

The MSL hire was a no-risk move in a lost season. He was an interim hire, if it didn't work out that would've been just fine for the tank. It worked out, so they extended him.

MPP is an inconsequential hire -- she has no coaching experience and has never played at even half this level. If she is somehow value-added that's another feather in HuGo's cap -- but I don't see why anybody needs to be estatic and cheering for this hire. She's an unknown figure in coaching and has next to no experience.

If you want to hang your hat on the fact that the Belfry guy exists and Barb Underhill is a known skating coach be my guest -- both are exceptional (very few examples exist) and had nevertheless long track records before being known as NHL-level coaches. MPP has no track record and it's not like you can point to her losing to a boys hockey team 8-0 as good experience either.

I'm not sure why you're trivialising a much more consequential hire. It's the head coach of the MTL fkn Canadiens.

You're the one here saying it's an ineffective way to bring in women. It feels like a minor role like you're describing as the underling of a top skills coach an excellent way to slowly bring in women in the organization. Examples like Belfry and Underhill aren't inconsequential, they're two of the very best and completely dismantle your point. The new management seems to target specific people and Poulin was someone they've wanted from the beginning.

Of course, there's a whole other debate here as well. The one being about women athlete not being able to teach concepts, which is what a skills coach is. It's a preposterous idea, but another debate altogether.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Too early to tell, Bergevin looked great his first three years. This board was in love with him back then. Lock Bergevin up to long term contract these posters wanted. Before another team steals him. not fair judge of time has passed.

No he didn’t. He hired Therrien and signed Douglas Murray. At no point in time did he look great or know what he was doing. Bridged Subban etc, the red flags were there from day 1.

He hired an analyst who was shitting on his number 1 dman on air every chance he got.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm not sure why you're trivialising a much more consequential hire. It's the head coach of the MTL fkn Canadiens.

You're the one here saying it's an ineffective way to bring in women. It feels like a minor role like you're describing as the underling of a top skills coach an excellent way to slowly bring in women in the organization. Examples like Belfry and Underhill aren't inconsequential, they're two of the very best and completely dismantle your point. The new management seems to target specific people and Poulin was someone they've wanted from the beginning.

Of course, there's a whole other debate here as well. The one being about women athlete not being able to teach concepts, which is what a skills coach is. It's a preposterous idea, but another debate altogether.

Belfry and Underhill had track records to justify their exceptional status as atypical skills coaches. Poulin has zero track record. You can dodge the fact all you want, I'm bored of this.

As for interim coaches, there have been many and will be many interim coaches who are thrown in a sink-or-swim situation. MSL was also one of the best hockey players of all time and can look players in the eye and say "you do this like I want you to, because I know works" and have him be heard and believed.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I'm surprised so many approve of Lecavalier. I'm. Not sure what he contributes, but I resent the Lecavalier affair from 2007.

I’m indifferent towards it. I like most of what HuGo has done to date. A few disagreements on pick selection and that’s about it, however, if MB made some of these hires, ie a bunch of his friends etc we would be all over him, but with HuGo most blindly accept it.

I’m not sure what Vinny does either other than collect a paycheque.

 

[Andrei79]

Belfry and Underhill had track records to justify their exceptional status as atypical skills coaches. Poulin has zero track record. You can dodge the fact all you want, I'm bored of this.

It's interesting how you're trying to reverse the situation here. You made a disingenuous points about how skills coaches either had to have played at a high level or had to be male for biomechanical reasons, both of which are factually false, as evidenced by these two examples. Now, you're claiming it's about track record, even though clearly, this isn't something that's stopped Gorton or Hughes. Who's dodging what here ?

 

[BLONG7]

That's just the thing. We don't know what Wright will be. Nor Slafkovsky.

Remember when most despised Tkachuk on this forum? How did that turn out?

Can you imagine if the dud Bergevin had taken the BPA and not from a perspective of a need?
We would have Brady T instead of KK...

 

[ReHabs]

It's interesting how you're trying to reverse the situation here. You made a disingenuous points about how skills coaches either had to have played at a high level or had to be male for biomechanical reasons, both of which are factually false, as evidenced by these two examples. Now, you're claiming it's about track record, even though clearly, this isn't something that's stopped Gorton or Hughes. Who's dodging what here ?

They're exceptions to the normative situation. Both had experience elsewhere before working with NHL-level teams.

Notice you quickly stopped mentioning Nicholas as soon as I reminded you how much lower MPP's level is from his?

Hughes, Gorton, and Molson signed a rookie skills coach who has never coached professionals and never played at even half of this level. I'm supposed to be cheering for this? No. Not complaining about it either -- I think it's an inconsequential hire that doesn't move the needle whatsoever. Maybe it will be revealed that she's an exceptionally good coach. I'm rooting for her.

 

[BLONG7]

I’m indifferent towards it. I like most of what HuGo has done to date. A few disagreements on pick selection and that’s about it, however, if MB made some of these hires, ie a bunch of his friends etc we would be all over him, but with HuGo most blindly accept it.

I’m not sure what Vinny does either other than collect a paycheque.

Taking on the role of an advisor always cracks me up............it seemed Hughes was the guy driving the bus on this hire.
As for what Vinny does.............stay tuned. Hopefully he can help with the kids, and teach them a thing or two.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Taking on the role of an advisor always cracks me up............it seemed Hughes was the guy driving the bus on this hire.
As for what Vinny does.............stay tuned. Hopefully he can help with the kids, and teach them a thing or two.

I’m not saying he can’t provide value, just that I don’t know what it is.

 

[Runner77]

Taking on the role of an advisor always cracks me up............it seemed Hughes was the guy driving the bus on this hire.
As for what Vinny does.............stay tuned. Hopefully he can help with the kids, and teach them a thing or two.

That looked to me like a friend helping a friend hire, since Lecavalier was Hughes’ very first client (and as he says himself, Lecavalier played a huge role in Hughes continuing as an agent as he was at the crossroads at the time).

Fair is fair, we have to call it what it is. As @BehindTheTimes stated, we would have lambasted Bergevin over a nepostic hire if this had happened in the prior regime.

The difference of course is that the new guys despite hiring a few friends, have shown rigor and professionalism in most of their appointments, so they’re getting rope right now and people are seeing Lecavalier at pressers or practices and probably thinking, « well yeah, he deserves to be here — he’s a hunk. »

 

[WeThreeKings]

That looked to me like a friend helping a friend hire, since Lecavalier was Hughes’ very first client (and as he says himself, Lecavalier played a huge role in Hughes continuing as an agent as he was at the crossroads at the time).

Fair is fair, we have to call it what it is. As @BehindTheTimes stated, we would have lambasted Bergevin over a nepostic hire if this had happened in the prior regime.

The difference of course is that the new guys despite hiring a few friends, have shown rigor and professionalism in most of their appointments, so they’re getting rope right now and people are seeing Lecavalier at pressers or practices and probably thinking, « well yeah, he deserves to be here — he’s a hunk. »

I'm never a fan of hiring an ex NHLer just because they are an ex-NHLer and yeah we'd have roasted MB for the same thing. But, MB got the benefit of the doubt in the beginning to bring in people he knew/worked with in the past.. as any of us would do, you would bring in some people you are familiar with and see things the way you do.

The problem was that time and time again the people MB brought in were unskilled grinders with dinosaur philosophy, so it was a group think of the worst level and some of his nepotistic moves were bringing in Carriere's son who was a terrible Div 3 coach with no track record of developing anyone.

Vinny's role is advisory and I've warmed more to it because we've brought in some players/prospects who would benefit from Vinny's mentorship. I do think it is important to have someone who successfully managed the pressure of being a #1 pick and in other ways, carried an expansion franchise into relevancy with all those expectations. Understanding those pressures and navigating that, as well as being a local star in Montreal despite not playing for the team. This will help insulate players which is something MB put no emphasis on then marred the character of someone like Galchenyuk when they didn't support them.

 

[domiwroze]

Approved of pretty much everything except :

- Adam Nicolas
There must have been a better option out there. Or maybe I just don't know him as well as they do.

- Dach/Romy trade
Love the idea of going after Dach, but the price was just too heavy for my approval.

- Engstrom pick
Don't know the guy enough and none of the report convinced me. But like every pick, time will tell.

Everything else i'm happy with. I know we could have gotten more for Toffoli with a bit of patience, but the tank was on and we still got "good" value anyway.

 

[the]

Gave up Bo Horvat for Cory Schneider…

Of course we will do a bad trade or two. Uncle Lou’s career spans over 30 years.

 

[Vachon23]

Approved of pretty much everything except :

- Adam Nicolas
There must have been a better option out there. Or maybe I just don't know him as well as they do.

- Dach/Romy trade
Love the idea of going after Dach, but the price was just too heavy for my approval.

- Engstrom pick
Don't know the guy enough and none of the report convinced me. But like every pick, time will tell.

Everything else i'm happy with. I know we could have gotten more for Toffoli with a bit of patience, but the tank was on and we still got "good" value anyway.

He’s considered as one of the best in the business, that was an home run hired

 

[domiwroze]

He’s considered as one of the best in the business, that was an home run hired

Thank you for the heads up i'll have to read about it then.