HF Habs: HuGo moves approval rates

[Scintillating10]

Too early to tell, Bergevin looked great his first three years. This board was in love with him back then. Lock Bergevin up to long term contract these posters wanted. Before another team steals him. not fair judge of time has passed.

 

[abo9]

I'm gonna abstain from voting to not skew the results - since I'm not informed enough on the personel

I liked the TDL trades. Returns were as expected from what we sold, and by far my favorite TDL trade was the Lehkonen one since Barron fits in a "plan" and is not simply value for the sake of value.

MSL seems promising, but lets give him a full year.

Weber/Dadonov trade came out of left field for me and it was a pleasant surprise. Weber simply has no value, but Dadonov could have some under the right circumstances, hopefully they fall in place.

Petry/Matheson trade: No comments yet, but it does look like a solid one. Cheaper contract, one more year but the player is 6 years younger and from all accounts was decent with the Pens. Poehling I'm a little surprised he went, I wonder if he'll develop further under the Pens leadership group.

Romanov/13thOA/Dach trade still rubs me the wrong way a bit. I dont think Romanov has as high a ceiling as Dach, but he's an NHLer at least. And now we have to hope that Dach + our defense prospects step up. Passing up the 13th pick too - but if it truly ends up a week draft then the 13th pick might be forgotten.

Monahan trade I likey just for the free pick.

Extensions were all meh (Wideman's) to good (Primeau). Habs had no significant player to extend really.

Overall, I liked most of Hughes moves. And the one I don't love, i also don't heavily dislike them. I understand the reasoning behind the mkves and there seems to be a vision a cohesion behind the moves that were made.

Hopefully that vision comes to fruition in the near future !

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

That lis is long but mostly good my 2 negatives are ,
The romanov trade is bad.
Slaf is not the good choice for a 1st oa and i won't change my opinion on that one.

 

[Runner77]

That lis is long but mostly good my 2 negatives are ,
The romanov trade is bad.
Slaf is not the good choice for a 1st oa and i won't change my opinion on that one.

Way too early to tell unless one is proficient in the divination arts.

We’ll probably need 3-5 years to appreciate how Slaf and Wright stack up.

More importantly, how does Slaf fit within the roster building strategy that HuGo is implementing?

And then we have Romanov vs. Dach. Yes, there are red flags with Dach and some of them are not his doing (how the Hawks rushed him) and some just outright bad luck (injuries). But there are some real intriguing tools here and getting this type of C at 21 years old doesn’t happen often.

We dealt from a position of depth in dealing Romanov. Loved the player and his brand of physicality but we have others coming up who can take on that role, with better offensive instincts. We just didn’t have anyone with Dach’s profile.

Plus, this smallish roster got an infusion of size with both Slaf and Dach, but not coke machines as @WeThreeKings would call players with size and not much else — these guys both bring a lot of talent to the table.

You’re making a very early call and that’s your prerogative. However, it is way too early for me to tell other than seeing upside in both players and waiting to see how much of it can be realized.

 

[Runner77]

I really wonder why some people didn't like the hiring of Marie-Philip Poulin.

Makes me wonder if any posters confused Marie-Philip Poulin with Kevin Poulin? Poll just says “Poulin”.

Timeline would not fit for Kevin Poulin anyways, since he was a training camp invite on Sept. 21, 2021 while Bergevin was still GM. All HuGo did with him, was to re-sign him.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

To me, getting rid of the Weber contract was something I call incredible. He still handcuffed the Habs with Dadonov's one yr 5 million dollar caphit, but the Habs are clear winners. No draft picks were part of the deal and no retention was required. Why the Nights did this trade still perplexes me, but Weber is their problem now.

Getting firsts and seconds for impending UFAs like Kulak and Chiarot was amazing. He certainly fooled GMs and got us fans falling in love.

I am not really impressed with the Petry, Romanov and Dach trades. Drafting Slaf over Wright was also a big mistake in my mind. If Matheson can become another Petry, than it's fair to say it was a good deal. Romanov was becoming a top 4 D, which the Habs are seriously lacking right now and Dach hasn't proven much. They could of kept Romanov, draft Wright and call it a day instead.

Overall, he certainly has a vision unlike BargainBin, who preferred plaster like bandaid solutions. The Monahan trade emphasized just that.

Most of his success was actually facilitated by BargainBin. He managed to get maximum returns on assets previously obtained by his predecessor. Whether all these prospects become dominant NHL players remains to be seen.

He still has lots to do. Price, Hoffman, Drouin, Byron, Armia, Savard, Gallagher are costing a fortune......

 

[Heffyhoof]

I really wonder why some people didn't like the hiring of Marie-Philip Poulin.

Subtle eh? Just come out and say what you want to say, may even get a like or two.

 

[ReHabs]

I really wonder why some people didn't like the hiring of Marie-Philip Poulin.

I don't approve of stunts.

The level ECHLers perform is higher than that of MPP's peak. Unfortunately, this is not a rare dichotomy in professional or competitive sports between men and women. No disrespect to MPP but I don't see the point of shoehorning a skills coach who hasn't played remotely close to this level of competition. If she was a tactician or video coach or something that didn't require on-ice or physical training then I wouldn't mind either way. But hiring a skills coach who, at her peak, would lose to any team of college players is an ineffective way to incorporate women into pro hockey coaching and management, in my opinion.

Now we both know you made this one-off comment to suggest no-so-subtly that you're very hip with it and many else are dinosaurs resistant to change and possibly also misogynist. Nothing I can say will deter you, so I won't bother convincing you of my personal respect and admiration of women as professionals.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

So many moves and so little time to discuss same. Generally, the trend of these varied transactions can be characterized as being ‘coordinated competence’. A refreshing change of direction after years of misguided incompetence. The move that I find the most underrated among the many positive ones was the hiring of Boborov. The man is impressive and destined for much higher office in this league within the next few years. And that will be a great loss to this team.

 

[Runner77]

The move that I find the most underrated among the many positive ones was the hiring of Boborov. The man is impressive and destined for much higher office in this league within the next few years. And that will be a great loss to this team.

What is it about Bobrov’s record that inspires so much confidence? We’ve seen how persuasive he can be in draft meetings — conceivably, he was also that commanding voice in the room when the Rangers made several questionable first round picks.

Will Slaf raise his stock? Bobrov’s a polished talker but how sound is his judgment?

 

[ChesterNimitz]

What is it about Bobrov’s record that inspires so much confidence? We’ve seen how persuasive he can be in draft meetings — conceivably, he was also that commanding voice in the room when the Rangers made several questionable first round picks.

Will Slaf raise his stock? He’s a polished talker but how sound is his judgment?

To me, that he was able to shift the team’s direction from the usual, and in many cases irresistible, path of consensus, inspired my confidence.

 

[Runner77]

To me, that he was able to shift the team’s direction from the usual, and in many cases irresistible, path of consensus, inspired my confidence.

We have a great sequence from him in that behind the scenes draft video. I’d humbly suggest that we’re going to need more evidence, before we know how much influence he’s had on this year’s draft crop, on an overall basis, not just for his take on Slaf.

 

[salbutera]

What is it about Bobrov’s record that inspires so much confidence? We’ve seen how persuasive he can be in draft meetings — conceivably, he was also that commanding voice in the room when the Rangers made several questionable first round picks.

Will Slaf raise his stock? He’s a polished talker but how sound is his judgment?

Bobrov talks a great game but has as mediocre a scouting history as the Habs chief scouts of the last 50-years.

Time will tell..

 

[ChesterNimitz]

We have a great sequence from him in that behind the scenes draft video. I’d humbly suggest that we’re going to need more evidence, before we know how much influence he’s had on this year’s draft crop, on an overall basis, not just for his take on Slaf.

True. No one knows how much influence he had on the ultimate draft decisions adopted by either the Rangers or the Canadiens. The only thing we know is what his opinion was on this year’s draft and how well he articulated same. But he is now an important part of a now competent and insightful team that is clearly steering the team out a long phase of irrelevancy and towards the promised land of competitiveness. The NHL, like many businesses, adopts a copy cat mentality. Couple that imperative with the difficulty of finding good leaders and other teams will start poaching members of our management team. If the Canadiens’ turn around is successful as most forecast it will be, I suspect Boborov will be a very desirable target by other teams similarly looking to reverse their fortunes. Its the Belichick syndrome.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I don't approve of stunts.

The level ECHLers perform is higher than that of MPP's peak. Unfortunately, this is not a rare dichotomy in professional or competitive sports between men and women. No disrespect to MPP but I don't see the point of shoehorning a skills coach who hasn't played remotely close to this level of competition. If she was a tactician or video coach or something that didn't require on-ice or physical training then I wouldn't mind either way. But hiring a skills coach who, at her peak, would lose to any team of college players is an ineffective way to incorporate women into pro hockey coaching and management, in my opinion.

Now we both know you made this one-off comment to suggest no-so-subtly that you're very hip with it and many else are dinosaurs resistant to change and possibly also misogynist. Nothing I can say will deter you, so I won't bother convincing you of my personal respect and admiration of women as professionals

Well put. And honestly the virtue signaling around that hire is cringe worthy.

 

[Andrei79]

I don't approve of stunts.

The level ECHLers perform is higher than that of MPP's peak. Unfortunately, this is not a rare dichotomy in professional or competitive sports between men and women. No disrespect to MPP but I don't see the point of shoehorning a skills coach who hasn't played remotely close to this level of competition. If she was a tactician or video coach or something that didn't require on-ice or physical training then I wouldn't mind either way. But hiring a skills coach who, at her peak, would lose to any team of college players is an ineffective way to incorporate women into pro hockey coaching and management, in my opinion.

Now we both know you made this one-off comment to suggest no-so-subtly that you're very hip with it and many else are dinosaurs resistant to change and possibly also misogynist. Nothing I can say will deter you, so I won't bother convincing you of my personal respect and admiration of women as professionals.

Adam Nicholas never came close to the ECHL either. He was a bad division III college player. What's the point of hiring a coach like him who hasn't played remotely close to this level of competition ?

Darryl Belfry never played. Poulin would mop the floor with him. Does it matter as a skills coach ?

 

[Andrei79]

Well put. And honestly the virtue signaling around that hire is cringe worthy.

Not a single point made was legitimate. Here's a quote from Darryl Belfry's book:

"When I first started as a young instructor from the ages of 17 to 25, I was shy and self-conscious. A lot of it was because I had never played, and here I was in a space that typically favored those who had played."

 

[DAChampion]

I'm surprised so many approve of Lecavalier. I'm. Not sure what he contributes, but I resent the Lecavalier affair from 2007.

 

[ReHabs]

Adam Nicholas never came close to the ECHL either. He was a bad division III college player. What's the point of hiring a coach like him who hasn't played remotely close to this level of competition ?

Darryl Belfry never played. Poulin would mop the floor with him. Does it matter as a skills coach ?

Relative to the Habs’ needs, MPP’s level is below even that of Nichols.

The very best women’s teams routinely lose to boys and teen’s teams. This isn’t an indictment of women athletes but a simple fact that reflects the general and yet inevitable physical differences between post-pubescent men and women.

The mechanics and athletic movements are simply different and to a noticeable degree. Men can generate a lot more force on their shots, their reverse checks, their skating stride — basically everything you can coach will need a coach who can do that thing in that way. Of course you can point to other aspects of coaching such as communication ability, observation skills to spot root causes of issues, problem solving, rhetoric skills to convince a player to “buy-in”. But that’s still only part of the equation and not the main aspect of skills coaching.

In any case I didn’t have any criticism of the hire, I just don’t think it is one of any consequence. I feel like it’s more notable as a stunt to shoehorn women hockey professionals into the picture than it is to improve the Habs. I stand by that.

There is no concerted effort to exclude women from pro sports. The salaries and margins being what they are, everybody wants an edge. At some point soon it will be inevitable that women will be in more visible positions and roles and will be there by merit or advantage. I don’t think skills training is one of them.

 

[DAChampion]

Too early to tell, Bergevin looked great his first three years.

No, back then we already had the Subban fiasco, Therrien, Lefebvre, Desharnais, and general weirdness on the UFA market.

I don't approve of stunts.

The level ECHLers perform is higher than that of MPP's peak. Unfortunately, this is not a rare dichotomy in professional or competitive sports between men and women. No disrespect to MPP but I don't see the point of shoehorning a skills coach who hasn't played remotely close to this level of competition. If she was a tactician or video coach or something that didn't require on-ice or physical training then I wouldn't mind either way. But hiring a skills coach who, at her peak, would lose to any team of college players is an ineffective way to incorporate women into pro hockey coaching and management, in my opinion.

Now we both know you made this one-off comment to suggest no-so-subtly that you're very hip with it and many else are dinosaurs resistant to change and possibly also misogynist. Nothing I can say will deter you, so I won't bother convincing you of my personal respect and admiration of women as professionals.

Do you really need to be elite at something to teach it?

 

[ReHabs]

No, back then we already had the Subban fiasco, Therrien, Lefebvre, Desharnais, and general weirdness on the UFA market.

Armstrong, Bouillon, and Parros and Douglas Murray.

Didn’t sell off, didn’t buy at the deadline despite a red hot team in his first year (only acquired Drewiskie ffs).

Bryan Allen and other dead weight acquisitions.

It was never good, the stink just hadn’t accumulated enough.

 

[Andrei79]

Relative to the Habs’ needs, MPP’s level is below even that of Nichols.

The very best women’s teams routinely lose to boys and teen’s teams. This isn’t an indictment of women athletes but a simple fact that reflects the general and yet inevitable physical differences between post-pubescent men and women.

The mechanics and athletic movements are simply different and to a noticeable degree. Men can generate a lot more force on their shots, their reverse checks, their skating stride — basically everything you can coach will need a coach who can do that thing in that way. Of course you can point to other aspects of coaching such as communication ability, observation skills to spot root causes of issues, problem solving, rhetoric skills to convince a player to “buy-in”. But that’s still only part of the equation and not the main aspect of skills coaching.

In any case I didn’t have any criticism of the hire, I just don’t think it is one of any consequence. I feel like it’s more notable as a stunt to shoehorn women hockey professionals into the picture than it is to improve the Habs. I stand by that.

There is no concerted effort to exclude women from pro sports. The salaries and margins being what they are, everybody wants an edge. At some point soon it will be inevitable that women will be in more visible positions and roles and will be there by merit or advantage. I don’t think skills training is one of them.

Ah ok, now it's about the mechanics and movements being different.

Barb Underhill, a figure skater, is one of the top power skating coaches. How do you think she manages to teach male skating strides with her female stride ?

If the movements are so different, how did Belfry ever teach his daughter and other female players ? I mean they are simply different and to a noticeable degree.

 

[ReHabs]

Do you really need to be elite at something to teach it?

Not elite, no. I never said that either.

But the gulf in effectiveness between the best woman player and an ordinary college player is massive. And only gets bigger from that point on. I don’t see how a skills coach can possibly work when she cannot consistently do things in a game situation as effectively as her clients/trainees.

It just seems like a very low cap to the effectiveness of someone in that position.

Ah ok, now it's about the mechanics and movements being different.

Barb Underhill, a figure skater, is one of the top power skating coaches. How do you think she manages to teach male skating strides with her female stride ?

It’s a good question. Maybe she’s exceptional.

Has MPP shown to be an exceptionally capable coach? Is there any track record of her success as a men’s skill coach at this level, anywhere, so that we can confidently claim she was hired because she’s the best?

 

[Andrei79]

Not elite, no. I never said that either.

But the gulf in effectiveness between the best woman player and an ordinary college player is massive. And only gets bigger from that point on. I don’t see how a skills coach can possibly work when she cannot consistently do things in a game situation as effectively as her clients/trainees

Neither Nicholas or Belfry can either. It's simply not a legitimate argument.

 

[Andrei79]

It’s a good question. Maybe she’s exceptional.

Has MPP shown to be an exceptionally capable coach? Is there any track record of her success as a men’s skill coach at this level, anywhere, so that we can confidently claim she was hired because she’s the best?

MPP isn't the main skills coach though, that isn't why she was hired, the one with the track record is Nicholas. How many elite coaches want to be under other elite coaches ? It's normal to hire based on potential and interest. They've been interested in Poulin for a while, so clearly they saw something. Like Kent Hughes, no managerial experience, but Gorton clearly saw something there. The organization has been hiring people in key positions with no experience since Gorton was hired, but it seems pretty obvious the hires have a rationale behind them.