Speculation: HOW will/should DRW resolve roster squeeze? (3 goalies, Ed, danielsson)

[The Flying Octopus]

“It’s unacceptable”..Are you gonna personally reprimand Stevie Y?

HF armchair generals never cease to amaze me lol. 20 years of hot takes and downright stupidity.

Ya it’s unacceptable. Sounds like you are the armchair HF general, who can’t see the light of day.

Simon is better than Chariot and if you wanna debate me on that, I’m here for it. You can’t, and won’t, so move along.

 

[Filppula]

Bury Veleno and get ZAR as 4C, thats the right play.

After Veleno had a great pre-season, and scored more points last season than ZAR ever has. And is younger. Right.

 

[lilidk]

After Veleno had a great pre-season, and scored more points last season than ZAR ever has. And is younger. Right.

But he was drafted by Holland

 

[Henkka]

Oddly, ALL the non-waiver exempt guys outplayed ALL of the waiver-exempt guys. Who would have guessed...

Have to hope Ken Holland back when he will leave Oilers.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

After Veleno had a great pre-season, and scored more points last season than ZAR ever has. And is younger. Right.

I was pleasantly surprised by Veleno, even if it is just preseason. He’s still young enough that he could take some small steps. Even if he improves just a little and starts chipping in offense semi-regularly, plays physical and throws a nice hit here and there, Ill take it. Im hoping having someone like Kostin on his line will help in both of those departments. We shall see…

 

[Peter Tosh]

- I think SY is sending a message to Berggren that needs to be sent; keep working and don’t take anything for granted. With a better performance this preseason, he wouldn’t be in GR.
- Elmer keeps falling on his own feet, waiting for a pass. He got lots of work to do before being a permanent fixture. I’m not at all convinced that he is a future NHL regular, even though his height is a fun gimmic.
- Edvinsson will be up as soon as the first injury happens.

 

[lidstromiscool]

- I think SY is sending a message to Berggren that needs to be sent; keep working and don’t take anything for granted. With a better performance this preseason, he wouldn’t be in GR.
- Elmer keeps falling on his own feet, waiting for a pass. He got lots of work to do before being a permanent fixture. I’m not at all convinced that he is a future NHL regular, even though his height is a fun gimmic.
- Edvinsson will be up as soon as the first injury happens.

Berggren outplayed plenty of veterans not only this pre season, but last year as well. This whole "sign veterans so the young players earn their spots" thing is so stupid when the younger players out play the veterans and still get sent down. If I'm a younger player, I'm wondering what the point of training camp is when the roster was clearly picked before camp ever started. Average veterans are going to bring average results, and average is a terrible spot to be

 

[Henkka]

Becoming season vs. last season

2023-24 vs. 2022-23

2023 Larkin >= 2022 Larkin, captain could be better with better supporting cast on his line. DeBrincat is from different level, only Bertuzzi has been top line level in the past and last season he didn't help much thanks to injuries.

DeBrincat >> compared to Vrana as somewhat sniper. Think Alex will score more than what Vrana did (1+1=2 points) at last season. One guy is a real 40-goal scorer, and other has always been just a potential 40-goal scorer.

Perron > Bertuzzi, great skill grinder, who has stayed healthy. Does the same dirty behind the net job at offensive end. If Perron can repeat his last season 24 goals and 56 points, that's 20 goals and 42 points more, than injured Bertuzzi was able to help (4+10=14 points) at last season. Also superior leader to have around young players for this team.

2023 Compher > 2022 Copp. JT Compher was Red Wings best player at pre-season, and it really seems that he has some extra offensive potential in him. This will build our 2nd line so much better than it was with Copp. Stanley Cup winner, and has been used in very defensive roles in the past, thanks to better team depth. But after Avs lost Kadri and MacKinnon (for injuries) he was able to step up even with 1st line minutes/role.

2023 Raymond > 2022 Raymond. Lucas could still "struggle" a bit, but most proably he will rebound back to his rookie season level. From 0.61 ppg to 0.70+level. 2nd line, 2nd PP, don't have to play over his head. He has matured physically and should start dominating against easier opposite lines. Being so young and going against top lines was just too heavy on last 2 seasons.

Sprong > Kubalik. Daniel Sprong is one of the most interesting players in this team. Known of his lethal shot. More than Kubalik ever was. Sprong has scored a goal in each game he has played. 4 pre-season games, and Red-White game. No other NHL forward scored there. 1 goal per game, 1+1+1+1+1/5 games = consistent scoring, not just bursts like hattrick in one game. Kubalik scored 20 last year, but was inconsistent, disappeared after a hot start. I'll expect Sprong getting 25+ if he can just complete more games.

Copp > Suter. Thanks to adding Compher, Andrew Copp will be now slotted to more suitable role. Can go defence heavy. Suter was used a lot on defensive situations too at last season. But Copp is a definite upgrade vs. this roster spot compared to last season. Also can start now as a healthy guy. Clearly best Faceoff guy at pre-season.

2023 Rasmussen > 2022 Rasmussen. Second best pre-season forward effort after Compher. Big fella has taken a long time to develop, but it looks like his time has come. Most dominating offensive shifts have happened Rasmussen on the ice, both at this pre-season, and at last regular season, before his injury.

2023 Fabbri > Zadina. Healthy Robby Fabbri is huge addition on this team. Especially versus struggling Zadina. For last season Fabbri was 0.57 points per game player and he has been that same 0.57 for last 4 years as a Red Wing. We don't know how many games he can complete, but he has always produced at same level, when healthy. Zadina was 0.36 points per game guy for his last 4 years, which did include his best 2019-20 season 28-game effort with 0.54 points per game, his career peak.

And even if, Robby Fabbri once again will get injured, we have Jonatan Berggren as a reserve offensive Top9 forward to jump instantly in. He could very soon be as effective as Fabbri.

That's our Top9 group of forwards.

Kostin > Erne. Klim Kostin was known as same kind of human wrecking ball as Adam Erne, but Erne never showed real skill or potential to score. Kostin has shown his offensive skill too. Kostin ppg from Edmonton was 0.37 with a very small ice-time, when Erne completed only 0.24 ppg, with higher ice-time. Points/60 is a bigger difference for Kostin (Kostin 2.20 vs. Erne 1.32) between them. Kostin did trend up even more at the playoffs 2.20 --> 3.32 points/60. That 2.20 was already 5th best number at Oilers offence, after McDavid, Drai, Hyman and RNH. All +3.00 numbers are elite numbers. Like, Toronto had 5 regular players to go over 3.00 in points/60.

2023 Veleno > 2022 Veleno. Biggest surprise for me at pre-season. Was explosive, lethal shooting and first guy on rebounds. Think he was our 3rd best pre-season forward. This is the guy I saw thriwing with Lafreniere at WJC. Veleno is great near the net, if there's somebody feeding him. In the near future, Berggren seems to be perfect fit as his feeder, but maybe he is also able to build a defensive role in him. Then it would be quite multi-tool package. That's what he has to be, no one-dimensional guy is gonna live on Yzerman teams very long.

Fischer = Sundqvist/Chiasson. Think Christian Fischer is the only player who isn't better than the guy he will replace. In weird way, Sundqvist was used more on the PP situations, as well as Chiasson. Sundqvist weakness was staying healthy, Fischer does not have this problem. More of, Fischer will fill a needed PK role, there really isn't any specialist on this team, except Copp. Also they like to build those D.zone starting bulldozer lines, to protect the leads on critical minutes, Fischer is a fit on that too. Hs is not a skill too, but hockey need many kind of "kirk maltby" -like tools to be complete teams.

2023 Berggren > 2022 Berggren
For sure, Berggren is better than Berggren 1 year ago. But team depth has seen so significant upgrades, that he stays a reserve player. Maybe big minutes and short stint still at AHL? Zadina is gone from his way, but healthy Fabbri creates competition. All forwards are healthy, that's good thing. But Berggren will get his call, instantly when there's the first injury at Top9.

Zack Aston-Reese > any of our 2022 bench warming forwards. Aston-Reese gives some experienced defensive depth. 29-year old veteran sit on the bench, instead of a kid.

Imo, everything in this team is better than year ago. It will start from the top. Larkin is the same solid himself, but with better supporting cast. DeBrincat is better secondary forward than any in the past on Larkin era. Compher is real 2nd line center, better than anyone since both Pavel and Z was on this team etc. Then the depth will start to show.

DeBrincat - Larkin - Perron
Rasmussen - Compher - Raymond
Fabbri - Copp - Sprong
Kostin - Veleno - Fischer
(Berggren, Aston-Reese)

EVERYTHING IS BETTER. Every spot. It cumulates, and will turn things around. No injuries. One of the best season starting situation for a long long time.

 

[Henkka]

Bury Veleno and get ZAR as 4C, thats the right play.

Aston-Reese has never been a Center.

He is a carbon-copy of Drew Miller player package. 4th line, small mins, PK, defence only. Positive +50 xGF%.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Have we now officially arrived at the point where folks would blame KH for everything or defend SY from everything?

Not every decision KH made was wrong

Not every decision SY makes is right

If we cant at least admit that...close the forum down

 

[JediOrderPizza]

People still bringing up Kenny lol.

 

[jkutswings]

Have we now officially arrived at the point where folks would blame KH for everything or defend SY from everything?

Not every decision KH made was wrong

Not every decision SY makes is right

If we cant at least admit that...close the forum down

I'm not sure whether I should agree with you. Was it Ken Holland or Steve Yzerman that told you to say it?

But you're right. Holland was not all bad, including some very good trades at the end to load up on picks. Yzerman is not always right, and does sometimes make mistakes.

 

[RRhoads]

While I don't like the logjam blocking the prospects, it's not something I will lose sleep over. I just think about the other teams that are forced to bring up their prospects early to have 20 or 21 players on their roster, and smile.

 

[Frk It]

Berggren hit a wall big time in the NHL last year. He had 11 pts in 38 games and was -17 from January-March last year.

It’s why I said multiple times in the possible lineup thread I don’t think he is a lock to play in the top 9 to start this year and it’s more likely he is a top 6 in Grand Rapids than Detroit.

 

[Tetsuo]

Look I'm not going to lie I'm not disappointed none of the young players made the cut. But it's not doom and gloom either....

Danielson is already looking like our best or second best prospect. The skill and IQ is there and he has so many shades of Larkin in his game. I think he's ready to make the leap next year and probably even land a top 6 role. Let the kid tear it up with Brandon and prove his doubters wrong (myself only somewhat included).

I'm not worried about Ed getting time. He's still coming off a recent surgery so him looking this good already was a nice plus. I want his fire on the team sooner than later. But letting him get some time in GR and play a big role while waiting for the inevitable injury is fine for now. I fully expect him to permanently make the jump by the end of the season.

Berg just has to get more consistent. The skill and IQ is there, but the NHL is a tough league and a player of his archetype has to have rock-solid production to maintain his spot. I still like his chances of being the first injury call up for a top-9 role.

Mazur being hurt is another huge reason we did not see anyone make a jump. I had huge expectations for him and I hope he recovers well.

Kasper is still a teenager playing on a NA sheet for practically the first time in his life. He's also coming off a recent injury as well. No worries yet about him. I still like his projection as nasty, skilled, two-way player.

The other young D just did not stand out in any kind of fashion for me other than Wallinder's skating. I think he might have something special if it all comes together. Getting one player out the rest of that heap is just a bonus. Likely trade fodder at some point.

When you combine that with us carrying three goalies to start the year it makes sense. I just know we need to see the youth movement continue for us to have any kind of success. I respect the vision: let the cream rise to the top and then make decisions as more information is revealed. That said I really, really hope Stevie can get a trade or two figured out the next calendar year to sort out the roster - we're deep but lacking in the young and/or high end talent needed to really take us to the places we want to go.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

If that is case that means:

- Yzerman cannot make tough decisions
- Yzerman does not set priorities right
- Yzerman has no coherent plan for the next phase

Getting value for something that has no value is not going to win Stanley Cup, proper development of top prospects does.

By sending Edvinsson down, he basically is not dealing in short-term interest of the team, as Simon is clearly a better on the path playoffs this year. He is also not dealing in long-term interesent of the team, as Simon is an imporant component of a future contending Red Wings team and his further development is better served in the NHL - you can't learn how to defend Austin Matthewses of this world in the AHL.

Basically if Yzerman sends Edvinsson down, he'll need to grow a pair, because without it is difficult to get this franchise back on track.

No, Yzerman just lacks the petulance and impatience of some around here. He knows it is a long season and that depth is required to make any realistic push for the playoffs over 82 games. Early season wins will be quickly erased when you are forced to call up and play Jared McIsaac. In typical HFboard fashion this is once again much ado about nothing.

 

[Ricelund]

Lots of overreaction in this thread.

 

[jkutswings]

No, Yzerman just lacks the petulance and impatience of some around here. He knows it is a long season and that depth is required to make any realistic push for the playoffs over 82 games. Early season wins will be quickly erased when you are forced to call up and play Jared McIsaac. In typical HFboard fashion this is once again much ado about nothing.

There is definitely a difference between:

I really like Player X and he's doing well. I don't agree with having Player Y on the roster instead.

and:

This front office is ruining this season / rebuild because they don't share my opinion.


The sky must have tremendous structural integrity, considering how often it has been falling lately.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

No, Yzerman just lacks the petulance and impatience of some around here. He knows it is a long season and that depth is required to make any realistic push for the playoffs over 82 games. Early season wins will be quickly erased when you are forced to call up and play Jared McIsaac. In typical HFboard fashion this is once again much ado about nothing.

My favorite new narrative is that Yzerman is soft. He's keeping vets up because he doesn't want to hurt feelings. He can't make the tough roster decisions.

If you look at his handling of players all the way back to the Martin St. Louis situation, he hasn't exactly had a problem making tough calls.

 

[jaster]

I'm having a hard time mustering strong feelings about the roster decisions. It's a long season, things will sort themselves out.

Also, I'll admit, as someone who's never really been high on Joe Veleno, it's great that he seems to be finding success with Fischer and Kostin. I like the idea of finding a solid 4th line and then letting the rest of the pool of players battle for those top-9 spots. Some people seem to be wringing their hands over Berggren, but we haven't seen good hockey from him since 2022, so I'm not sure what the big deal is. He'll get a shot soon enough. Heck, Fabbri is still on the roster.

It seems the best players made the roster, with the exception of Edvinsson. But he's another guy who will likely be up soon enough, injuries are inevitable, and he provides quality depth.

The roster today will not be the same as in 3 months, or even a month, or likely even a week.

 

[norrisnick]

Play the worse player now so you have a better player to call up later is such a weird stance. If the reserves are better than your starting roster you're doing it wrong.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Will Yzerman have a press conference before the season starts?

 

[Ezekial]

My favorite new narrative is that Yzerman is soft. He's keeping vets up because he doesn't want to hurt feelings. He can't make the tough roster decisions.

If you look at his handling of players all the way back to the Martin St. Louis situation, he hasn't exactly had a problem making tough calls.

Don't appeal to authority, APPEAL TO ME!

 

[jkutswings]

Will Yzerman have a press conference before the season starts?

Good question. And it's almost time! Thursday night can't get here fast enough!

 

[Detroit Knights]

The other young D just did not stand out in any kind of fashion for me other than Wallinder's skating. I think he might have something special if it all comes together. Getting one player out the rest of that heap is just a bonus. Likely trade fodder at some point.

Tuomisto did nothing for you? I thought he played great and was a pleasant surprise. He has a good, hard shot, big body and it seems like he actually uses it pretty well too. I thought he played much better than Wallinder overall.