How the mighty have fallen: Chicago and LA

[Bizz]

add Vegas to the list. However anybody who knows a thing or three about hockey already saw this coming.

 

[Martyros]

the pens contended those years, the kings and hawks were one and done or didn't even qualify

how is that moving goal posts?

how is losing in the first round considered "contending"? How much better off were they compared to missing the playoffs in general? The kings got swept by Vegas last year, I GUESS THAT MAKES THEM CONTENDERS!

 

[93LEAFS]

Outside of the cost certainty aspect of the cap, this is pretty much the desired result. Although, I don't think the NHL is enamored with two major USA markets struggling at the same time (and that's before factoring in the Rangers).

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kings lost a lot of key players for free.

Williams and Mitchell left for UFA.

Voynov got deported.

Regehr retired.

Stoll retired.

Greene got injured and retired.

Gaborik got injured and sat on LTIR.

I think Mike Richards died.

Lots of players lost for nothing.

Time does in fact exist.

 

[Turin]

It’s the cost of success. Most of the teams people praise year after year haven’t won a single Cup let alone multiple.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

point is people should want their teams to be more like the pens and keep both nuts

win 3 cups, play for a 4th, and be a consistent contender for over a decade rather than have a few good years and then stink

that is nothing to admire, when comparing them to the pittsburgh penguins

You know, the Penguins did their thing, LA did their thing, and Chicago did their thing. Nobody cares about other teams, those teams won multiple championships, they don't have any problems involving that. Full stop.
I don't know what utopia you're living in that you can look down on this, but no, it's all good for those teams' championships. And any teams' championship for that matter.

 

[Reality Check]

Every team that obtains success such as this falls eventually. Toronto, St. Louis, San Jose and numerous other franchises would gladly trade places with Chicago and LA if the same happened to them.

It also reaffirms just how impressive Detroit's run was. They were the exception to the rule.

 

[ChiHawk21]

chicago signed some bad contracts, some players got older, made some terrible trades, and bam they arnt as good. They arnt even up to the cap this year they are in a retool right now as well. Ill take the cups all day everyday.

 

[FeatherHead]

The formula in the salary cap era really isn’t rocket science. Many of you either blissfully ignore it or are completely ignorant of it because your team hasn’t experienced it.

1. Suck for a long time
2. Draft high for multiple years
3. If successful at draft...Hawks, Pens, Kings, & Bruins
4. If unsuccessful...Oilers, Islanders, and damned near everyone else
5. If #3, win Cups
6. If win Cups, every player demands pay increase
7. Not everyone gets what they want, cuz salary cap
8. Hemorrhage players from roster
9. Rebuild
10. Repeat processes 3, and 5-9.

The league wanted parity. Not dynasties. The fact that over the past decade or so the same teams are either winning Cups or appearing in the Cup final show that even though some teams have been more successful than others, staying relevant is nearly as hard as becoming relevant in the first place.
I hope every fan gets to experience their team winning a Cup in their lifetime. I also hope they all get to experience the reality that keeping the gang together afterwards is next to impossible. Have to win and get lucky finding players late in the rounds where you’ll be drafting that can quickly turn into productive players that can keep things going.
As a Hawks fan, I’ve watched ya have to trade away the likes of Bolland, Versteeg, Saad, Panarin, Hjalmarsson, Terevainen, K. Hayes, and then some not because we didn’t want them, but because we couldn’t afford them. The players you replace them with simply will never be of the same caliber right then and there. Combine that with the players that remain aging through their primes, and unless they’re the cream of NHL talent and don’t regress...and the writing is simply on the wall.
In today’s NHL, you should be grateful if your team bags a cup, much less a few over several years.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

how is losing in the first round considered "contending"? How much better off were they compared to missing the playoffs in general? The kings got swept by Vegas last year, I GUESS THAT MAKES THEM CONTENDERS!

Because they were still elite regular season teams with 50+ wins. Was Detroit not a contender in 06 when they had 124 points but lost in the first round?

 

[Martyros]

Because they were still elite regular season teams with 50+ wins. Was Detroit not a contender in 06 when they had 124 points but lost in the first round?

Kings barely made the playoffs in 2012, were they not contenders when they won the cup?

 

[Phil68]

Hawks wont make the playoffs and real talk, they only have one elite player. His name is Kane. Patrick Kane.

 

[ES]

The most astonishing fact about Blackhawks salaries is that if they retire at the end of their current contracts, Brent Seabrook has earned almost 20 million dollars more than Duncan Keith.

Seabrook 97,3272M
Keith 77,9M but the info of his entry-level contract (1 year NHL + 2 years AHL) is missing

 

[stepdad gaary]

how is losing in the first round considered "contending"? How much better off were they compared to missing the playoffs in general? The kings got swept by Vegas last year, I GUESS THAT MAKES THEM CONTENDERS!

since 2007 the pens have lost in the 1st round 3/12 times. not sure what you're even referring to. 3 first round losses, 3 cups, 1 cup loss, 1 conference final loss, 3 2nd round exits. all that with 4 different coaches and 3 different GMs. so yeah

 

[ClydeLee]

the pens contended those years, the kings and hawks were one and done or didn't even qualify

how is that moving goal posts?

You think those 3 straight years post 09 the Penguins contended how so?

 

[BatVader]

The Hawks ran as far as they could with what they had before the cap got them. Everyone knew it was coming, eventually.
They had a good run and now they need to make some tough decisions.
Should be interesting to watch.

 

[rajuabju]

If you are talking about how the mighty have fallen just look at Detroit.

Point being, no team can stay on top forever. Nor should they. would be bad for hockey

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

You think those 3 straight years post 09 the Penguins contended how so?

2012 pens had 51 wins and most outlets picked the pens from the east and canucks from the west heading into the playoffs. If you look at it in retrospect then only the cup winner is a contender each year.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Kings barely made the playoffs in 2012, were they not contenders when they won the cup?

Heading into the playoffs they probably weren't considered contenders. In retrospect they obviously were.

 

[COHawk]

The most astonishing fact about Blackhawks salaries is that if they retire at the end of their current contracts, Brent Seabrook has earned almost 20 million dollars more than Duncan Keith.

Seabrook 97,3272M
Keith 77,9M but the info of his entry-level contract (1 year NHL + 2 years AHL) is missing

Keith could've taken a shorter deal and made way more with an additional contract. He took less money for security. Some people like to gamble, others would rather make $5M for 12 years rather than the potential of $7.5M for 3 years and getting hurt before another contract. To each their own I guess.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

What has happened to these recent powerhouse teams? It is truly baffling. They have both seemingly dropped off a cliff without their rosters changing all that much. They have lost some key secondary pieces but nobody major and their cores are still intact.

It makes you wonder if the NHL has become a fluke and we will never see dynasties like their were in the 80's and there are in other sports right now.

Chicago has been getting progressively worse, Lost in 1st round, swept in 1st round, missed playoffs. LA: missed playoffs, embarrassed in 1st round, missed playoffs, swept in 1st round by an expansion team.

It is inexcusable for two teams that have won multiple cups with the same players to just regress into bottom feeders. It is taking the enjoyment out of watching the NHL knowing that there are no truly great teams anymore.

Talk about some massive hyperbole. Hate to break it to you, but the Hawks and Kings both had runs similar length of being a top contender to the Oilers, who dominated from 1984-1990 (giving the Oilers the benefit of the doubt after trading TGO in 1988 and based on them winning the Cup in 1990). The Oilers runs was 7-8 years, which is similar to both the Hawks (slightly longer) and the Kings (slightly shorter).

To say the Hawks have "lost some secondary pieces" is absolutely ludicrous. I know that everyone points to the "star players" as the reason why teams win or lose the Cup, but that's a HUGE cop out. The Kings & Hawks current struggles are predominantly due to the fact that they're getting almost NOTHING from over half their roster. When they were good teams, they were DEEP, and that is no longer the case due to age, the cap crunch, making trades to improve their team in the short term during their windows, and drafting late. For both teams there just aren't guys who are ready to contribute in the roles needed.

For the Hawks, the biggest factor is that key guys who were difference makers have aged and aren't anywhere close to dominant as they were (primarily Toews, Keith, and Seabrook). Those guys are all shadows of what they were, and that is because father time is undefeated.

Do you know why the Pens & Caps won the last 3 Cups? Sure, Crosby, Malkin, AO & Kuzy were all big reasons, but do those team win the Cup without the incredible supporting casts? Do the Caps win last year without Eller, DSP, & Connelly? Do the Pens win without Murray, and all the young guys who were key contributors? The Pens are the best example. They stopped trying to trade for stop gaps (Iginla, etc.) and had a bunch of young players (and reclamation projects like Cullen) who stepped up when needed.

EDIT: Would like to add that while not unexpected, the schaudenfraude in this thread is strong.

 

[ClydeLee]

2012 pens had 51 wins and most outlets picked the pens from the east and canucks from the west heading into the playoffs. If you look at it in retrospect then only the cup winner is a contender each year.

I guess to some. I remember a lot of people having zero faith in Fleury after 3 playoffs he already was heavily blamed during. I guess people still were all in depsite it though

 

[Osprey]

It also reaffirms just how impressive Detroit's run was. They were the exception to the rule.

I don't think that we can really compare runs now to Detroit's run because the rules were different. There wasn't a salary cap during most of Detroit's run, which allowed them to spend to stay good and trade away aging contracts. If I'm not mistaken, Detroit's run came to an end within 5 or so years of the salary cap being introduced, so you could argue that they followed the (new) rule.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

EDIT: Oh, nevermind, it seems like someone whose posts I've ignored is posting a lot in this thread.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t see how anyone can say the Pens weren’t THE team to beat the last ten years outside of 2011 and 2015.

Obviously they underachieved, but they certainly where constantly picked to come out the East.

I guess you could say they were a surprise in 2008, but they killed it in that playoffs until running into Detroit.