How the mighty have fallen: Chicago and LA

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don’t see how anyone can say the Pens weren’t THE team to beat the last ten years outside of 2011 and 2015.

Obviously they underachieved, but they certainly where constantly picked to come out the East.

I guess you could say they were a surprise in 2008, but they killed it in that playoffs until running into Detroit.

I don't think anyone takes issue with that statement itself. Can disagree, but more or less they're in the running.

I can't speak for everyone, but what I take issue with is the idea that them being considered a favorite excuses their failures and that others NOT being considered favorites makes them lucky regardless of repeat success. I.E. some people seem to be running with the idea that the favorites should always win and that others are just keeping their seat warm, they're various shades of one-off Cinderellas

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think anyone takes issue with that statement itself. Can disagree, but more or less they're in the running.

I can't speak for everyone, but what I take issue with is the idea that them being considered a favorite excuses their failures and that others NOT being considered favorites makes them lucky regardless of repeat success. I.E. some people seem to be running with the idea that the favorites should always win and that others are just keeping their seat warm, they're various shades of one-off Cinderellas

Who excuses their failures? Pens fans turned on Bylsma as early as 2012 and Shero after 2013.

They are the most successful team of the last ten years though. That isn’t disputable. Two back to back finals. Three cups and another ECF. Without missing the playoffs once. 2011 and 2015 were squads hampered by the cap and injury. But, LA, Boston, and Chicago all had similar situations after their wins in 2010, 2011 and 2014.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

You think those 3 straight years post 09 the Penguins contended how so?

aside from 2011 they were favored going into the playoffs to win the cup, that is how

hawks and kings couldn't be favored in recent years when they didn't even qualify

 

[GOilers88]

i've been telling you guys forever that the kings are proof you can get lucky twice

the hawks were elite at a time when the whole league was down, timing is everything in life, now the league is as strong as ever and they are just another team

You don't win two cups on luck.

 

[Rorschach]

I would argue that the salary cap also saved the hawks and kings. How you might ask? There is no way a terrible offensive 8th seed like the kings win a cup with a non existent salary cap. They would have gotten shelled by a number 1 seed that probably had three superstar lines to throw out there shift after shift.

The Hawks are a big market but they weren't the biggest spenders and they would be constantly losing star players to the Rangers, Wings, Stars, etc. Top end clubs were a lot better and it was harder to get through that consistent superstar team that made it to the big 4 every year. Its a lot easier to win the cup when you have someone like Kane, Keith and Toews and the competition are more salary cap floor spending teams rather than ceiling. A team like Nashville does not spend to the upper limit of the cap anyways, i am sure that has changed now but that was not the case a few years ago as an example.

The salary cap allowed the hawks to be creative an assemble a roster of awesome young players that were on a cheap cap hit while the rest of the league had a disadvantage because their young guys and depth were not as good and they could not buy a better roster. I find it funny that a fan base that has three championships complains about the salary cap as if the team would have been good forever, it did not even happen pre cap.

I would argue that the salary cap also saved the hawks and kings. How you might ask? There is no way a terrible offensive 8th seed like the kings win a cup with a non existent salary cap. They would have gotten shelled by a number 1 seed that probably had three superstar lines to throw out there shift after shift.

The Hawks are a big market but they weren't the biggest spenders and they would be constantly losing star players to the Rangers, Wings, Stars, etc. Top end clubs were a lot better and it was harder to get through that consistent superstar team that made it to the big 4 every year. Its a lot easier to win the cup when you have someone like Kane, Keith and Toews and the competition are more salary cap floor spending teams rather than ceiling. A team like Nashville does not spend to the upper limit of the cap anyways, i am sure that has changed now but that was not the case a few years ago as an example.

The salary cap allowed the hawks to be creative an assemble a roster of awesome young players that were on a cheap cap hit while the rest of the league had a disadvantage because their young guys and depth were not as good and they could not buy a better roster. I find it funny that a fan base that has three championships complains about the salary cap as if the team would have been good forever, it did not even happen pre cap.

The Kings got a ton of key vets including Mitchell, Scuderi and Williams all due to their original teams having cap concerns as well.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Heading into the playoffs they probably weren't considered contenders. In retrospect they obviously were.

In 2012, from the Carter trade (February) through the end of the season, the Kings were the best team in the league. Top tier GPG and GAA, top in points percentage, 1st by a significant margin in all possession stats. They didn’t magically turn on the jets in the first round.

Only a few hockey writers actually picked up on this, and they were among the few to pick the Kings over the Canucks that year.

 

[ColbyChaos]

In 2012, from the Carter trade (February) through the end of the season, the Kings were the best team in the league. Top tier GPG and GAA, top in points percentage, 1st by a significant margin in all possession stats. They didn’t magically turn on the jets in the first round.

Only a few hockey writers actually picked up on this, and they were among the few to pick the Kings over the Canucks that year.

Doesnt matter they had a poor standings/60 so they were a fluke

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Kings got a ton of key vets including Mitchell, Scuderi and Williams all due to their original teams having cap concerns as well.

That’s not true at all.

Vancouver didn’t want to take a chance on a multi year deal for Mitchell after all his injuries. Williams, also injury prone at the time, was a hockey trade. Carolina was trying to retool. I guess you can say Scuderi was a cap casualty at a blistering hot $2 million a year.

The Kings got super duper lucky because they magically rehabbed injured vets. Get the narrative right, bro.

 

[innitfam]

It's just inevitable decline. It happens.

As much as I dislike the Hawks, I thought they were going to to 4 for 8 and win again in 2017. Boy was that a whiff...

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Hawks downfall at this point is painful to watch

Today the team literally quit on ice and in aftermath of the firing of Q there doesn't appear to be much hope with Bowman now with absolute power

Hawks appear headed back to dark days

 

[Kranix]

Was Luc Robitaille taking correspondence courses on business admin while he was playing? Now he's running the whole organization. This seems like a Garth Snow scenario.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Was Luc Robitaille taking correspondence courses on business admin while he was playing? Now he's running the whole organization. This seems like a Garth Snow scenario.

I can’t speak for Snow’s comptetence, but its potentially shaping up to be a waking f***ing nightmare in LA.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I can’t speak for Snow’s comptetence, but its potentially shaping up to be a waking ****ing nightmare in LA.

Waking nightmare was exactly the word I came to use.


Now Jack Campbell, poor guy, is ALSO out 4-to-6 weeks with a torn meniscus. With Quick and Campbell down, Kings are turning to Cal Petersen and Budaj.

And the curse extends beyond LA, as all our top prospects are hurt -- Vilardi, Akil Thomas, JAD, even Villalta.

Paying the hockey gods price for 2014 for sure. I'd still do it all over again, but I think I speak for all Kings fans when I say this is the comedy of errors we're all more used to--corporate cronyism, promising players and prospects fizzling out to injuries/mismanagement (Brian Boyle as a defenseman, anyone? ), and on-ice self-inflicted shotgun wounds.

 

[Little Psycho]

Haha take that Hawks fans! Can't beat us to 31st place!! Campbell out 4-6 weeks with same injury as Quick.

 

[GaryU]

The salary cap and age. No big mystery.

Stan Bowman. Overpays everyone.

 

[LAKings88]

I’m convinced that no matter how bad LA finishes, they still won’t get Hughes.

 

[Butch 19]

Was Luc Robitaille taking correspondence courses on business admin while he was playing? Now he's running the whole organization. This seems like a Garth Snow scenario.

I agree with this. Luc has no where near the required experience to be a gm.

I generally don't like ex-payers coming back to run their team. They always crash and burn, it's just a matter of when. That's one reason I really liked Sutter - from day 1.

 

[volcom92886]

Ill take the two cups followed by a few years of suckage any day.

 

[Butch 19]

Ill take the two cups followed by a few years of suckage any day.

yeah, I hear ya, but it's already up to 4 years of suckage!

and it looks worse, MUCH worse, just up ahead.

 

[StreetHawk]

yeah, I hear ya, but it's already up to 4 years of suckage!

and it looks worse, MUCH worse, just up ahead.

A couple of bad moves and they are where they are.

Chicago, they had to retain Toews. Term longer than they would have liked, but you’re going to have to take it. Main contract that hurts is the seabrook one. He’s the one they had to move off from. And the 2 deals in the draft to get Saad for Panarin and swapping out Hammer for Murphy hurt. Don’t get the logic of thinking 3 years down the line with the lineup they had with Panarin. Worry about his next deal when it comes.

LA, those 2 deals in 2015 at the tdl and draft hurt. The Lucic one more mainly due to Jones and that draft pick and who was in the board for 1 year of lucic. When you have Kopitar and doughty under 30, that’s too soon for an all in type move.
Handing out long term deals bit LA. Brown and Gabby who they flipped but got back Phaneuf.

Can only make so many tdl moves before the costs of those picks and prospects catches up to you.

And you have to be able to walk away from good players who realistically have 2-3 good years left but want 6-7 year deals.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

f*** the haters

 

[AlphaBravo]

**** the haters

That was an intense series. Game 7 was the best game of hockey I have ever watched. Both teams going toe to toe. The 2013 series was less eventful because the Hawks were so much more better than the Kings in that series.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

That was an intense series. Game 7 was the best game of hockey I have ever watched. Both teams going toe to toe. The 2013 series was less eventful because the Hawks were so much more better than the Kings in that series.

That Kings team just never died. Even in 2013 they forced double OT on the road after I believe Stoll scored after an ozone faceoff with like 10 seconds left in regulation. 2014 WCF was the true cup final. Game 7 was just two heavyweights going blow for blow. Martinez got the KO.

 

[crazyhawk]

Kind of odd this thread has gotten to 10 pages! As has been mentioned numerous times the cap era kind of controls the length of any would be dynasty. Hawks won 3! and almost 4 given 2014 wcf against LA could have gone either way. It's all good. I would think almost any fan of any team would take the 3 or 2 cups ( LA ) for the inevitable decline that follows the years of success. It's the way of it. Personally as a Hawk fan I am good ... very good and don't mind in the slightest that the Hawks may very well not win again in my lifetime. Have to share the wealth don't we?!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

**** the haters

Jeremy Colliton on Blackhawks-Kings 11/16/18: "f*** I didn't know I was coaching Rockford vs. Ontario"

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Jeremy Colliton on Blackhawks-Kings 11/16/18: "**** I didn't know I was coaching Rockford vs. Ontario"

Loooool...the Jack Hughes bowl