So what I got from those graphs is that pretty much every Leaf defenceman but Ranger play better against Elite competition than Phaneuf and Gunnarson.
Yeah, thats seems right
How much consideration should Dion Phaneuf get for the Norris Trophy?
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So what I got from those graphs is that pretty much every Leaf defenceman but Ranger play better against Elite competition than Phaneuf and Gunnarson.
Yeah, thats seems right
So what I got from those graphs is that pretty much every Leaf defenceman but Ranger play better against Elite competition than Phaneuf and Gunnarson.
Yeah, thats seems right
Its true though.
Gardiner and Franson do for sure. They aren't hemmed in their own zone for the entire shift, they create something, at least, more than Phaneuf does.
Gary Nylund
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You don't have to believe it if you don't want, but Franson is criminally underrated, he made a number of mistakes, but Phaneuf makes just as many.
What about Phaneuf makes him so good? His positioning? His ability to take the puck away from the opposition? His hitting? His skating? His passing?
He's not good, people who have defended him mainly use QoC, but QoC though valuable, in Phaneuf's case, has been debunked. So what is it? If the stats say hes awful, and your eyes tell you differently, explain what your eyes are seeing that the stats aren't portraying?
He's not good, people who have defended him mainly use QoC, but QoC though valuable, in Phaneuf's case, has been debunked. So what is it? If the stats say hes awful, and your eyes tell you differently, explain what your eyes are seeing that the stats aren't portraying?
Atomos2
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You don't put the name before the performance. You put the performance before the name. These players have a history of better performances than Phaneuf, but if he performs better than these players then he damn well deserves to win the trophy over them. The name alone doesnt guarantee anything.
Dreakmur
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QoC only tells you where a coach thinks a player ranks within his own team. Every team has a leading scorer. Every team has a number 1 defenseman. Every team has players who play rough minutes. The only thing you can really gauge from that is how a player compares to his teammates.
The Winter Soldier
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Dion is the best defenceman on this team, but to answer your question.
-Highest QOC for Defenceman
-Highest defensive zone starts for D
-Plus 2 last year
-2ND TOI SHORTHANDED D
-2nd most hits for on team
-Less giveaways than all regular D men, despite playing more mins.
-4th in active Defenceman in career PP goals. 34th all time. Needs 3 goals to be inside30
How's this to start. Can you claim any other defenceman on this team does this?
Stephen
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Dion is slow, has poor hockey sense, his offense is drying up, doesn't seem to have the lungs to be able to handle the requisite minutes to be a number one defenseman, can't quarterback a power play, can't be a trigger man on the power play, crumbles under pressure, has a poor reputation among peers in the NHL, is paid like he's elite, can't lead a guided tour.
What a great guy to have!
What a great guy to have!
Stephen
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Just because he draws difficult assignments doesn't mean he's succeeding at it and this is worthy of praise.
Dreakmur
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I think anyone who disputes the fact that Phaneuf is toronto'd best defenseman is being ridiculous.
Asside from +/- and PP goals, all those stats tell two stories. The first is that Dion is a good defenseman. The second is that he is surrounded by crap or developing kids. When Carlyle chooses to use Phaneuf in defensive situations, it's not like he is choosing him over Doughty and Suter - he's choosing him over Franaon and 19 year old Rielly.
How is Phaneuf Toronto's best defensemen? What has ever shown that makes him their best defensemen other than reputation? You could easily make an argument that Gunnarsson or Gardiner were better than Phaneuf last season.
So am I understanding you and this article?
Dion doesn't get credit for his quality of competition numbers because he plays with his best teammates (Kessel, JVR and Gunnar) but Dion is the one who is to blame all alone for his crappy Corsi and boosting opponent Corsi?
The good stuff isn't to be credit for him alone but the bad stuff should be blamed on him alone?
I'm completely neutral on Phaneuf. Sometimes I'm happy with him and sometimes I'm frustrated by his choices on the ice.
You and the writer seem like Phaneuf haters trying to look like analysts. LOL
BTW….the BIGGEST analysis of hockey players is totally subjective but it's the most accurate too. Watching them play.
For example….just watching a kid like Jake Gardiner shows me that he's got huge potential but plays a very little defensive game, does little in his own end. I think he can be a great player but I also think he's played a lot by Carlyle but deliberately in the least scary situations (as much as Carlyle can control) to protect him a bit. Which makes total sense.
And the best part….everything I said in the previous paragraph is subjective. LOL
See this kind of stuff is plain misleading.
Maybe they aren't hemmed in their own zones because they rarely start in their own zones. How many defensive zone face-offs do you think they're on the ice for? How much penalty killing time do they do?
LOL
Divine
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If Phaneuf ever won the Norris, HfBoards would explode. I think Phaneuf would be best on a team where he plays second pairing. Maybe that would take some of the defensive pressure off of him and allow him to play more like he did in Calgary (go for more big hits, etc.)
Gardiner started a higher % of his shifts in the defensive zone than Phaneuf did.
Phaneuf had more defensive starts because he played more mins, but in terms of % of their each individual starts, Gardiner started more in the defensive zone than Phaneuf did.
Again, the article shows that Phaneuf, even when playing mediocore comp, does not succeed. What more evidence is needed? He's overpaid and if they could somehow get rid of his contract they should.
And SH TOI means nothing in those graphs, its all even strength data. So playing less PK time than Dion means nothing.
Jay McClement played a ridiculous amount of time SH, and he's awful too.
Jay McClement played a ridiculous amount of time SH, and he's awful too.
I seem to remember Phaneuf on the ice making mistakes more often than Gardiner did.
The whole point is, we see Phaneuf make mistakes and everyone ***** on him for it. Then a lot of people suggest through stats that he's just overworked and played against top comp, and if utilized better he would be better.
The article suggests even when utilized vs average talent he makes them above average, in terms of shots for and against.
If someone were to take the actual time to read the article rather than judging it before so, you'd understand the demonstrated point.
Its not a Gardiner debate, its a Phaneuf debate. He's getting more slack from fans than he should. He's definitely not a 7M/year player.
Dreakmur
Registered User
It's certainly not because I think he's great. As I said before, by default, has a best defenseman - that's Phaneuf in Toronto.
Gunnarsson was a steady and reliable guy, but he was nothing more than a #4/5 guy. He was better than Phaneuf at some things, but Phaneuf is the superior all-around player.
Gardiner could be better than Phaneuf this season. Depends on how much he can build off the end of last year.
ACC1224
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Realism!!
Once(if) Gardiner and Rielly surpass Phanuef the Leafs will be a competitive Team once again.
Here's hoping it's sooner rather than later.
diceman934
Help is on the way.
I added a little to your list:
You forgot most goals against Even strength
Most goals allowed on the PK.
Most goals against short handed while on PP
Most shots against while on the ice.
Most total goals against.
Most Minor penalties taken
3 in D man score on the team.
3 in PP points for D man.
Sure changes your rosy picture.
Notice the pattern.....goals scored against.
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