How much consideration should Dion Phaneuf get for the Norris Trophy?

[hockeyfanz*]

Dion is slow, has poor hockey sense, his offense is drying up, doesn't seem to have the lungs to be able to handle the requisite minutes to be a number one defenseman, can't quarterback a power play, can't be a trigger man on the power play, crumbles under pressure, has a poor reputation among peers in the NHL, is paid like he's elite, can't lead a guided tour.

What a great guy to have!

Slow..yup
Poor Hockey Sense..Yup
Mediocre Offense...Yup
Poor PP QB...Yup
Average Conditioning..Yup
Not Good Under Pressure..Yup
Not Respected by Peergroup..Yup
Paid as an Elite D..Yup


Hard to argue with any of these points I'm afraid. Not from what I've witnessed anyway. Are fans in Chicago having these convos about Keith/Seabrook...Boston fans having these discussions about Chara? How about fans in LA? Saying things about Doughty?

Where there is smoke....there is fire.

I don't think fans/media make this stuff up just because......

Maybe its time for Dion to move on. A change of scenery may do him wonders. Would do Leafs Nation wonders too...

 

[TheLeafsBro]

Zero chance. Won't even be a finalist at any point in the rest of his career.

Norris trophy calibre defensemen can play big minutes (26-29+) without any problems. Phaneuf can barely handle more than 24. Jake or Morgan probably have a better chance of winning it next year than Phaneuf.

Also yeah, he's a top 15-20 dman like Nazemlupul said. People need to start adjusting their expectations of Phaneuf like most of us have already done. I feel like the times when Phaneuf is playing bad are the times when he's trying to do more than he's capable of. When he sticks to his game and what he can do best he's fine. Will be interesting to see how he plays with Gardiner on the top pairing with him potentially.

 

[egd27]

Gardiner started a higher % of his shifts in the defensive zone than Phaneuf did.

Phaneuf had more defensive starts because he played more mins, but in terms of % of their each individual starts, Gardiner started more in the defensive zone than Phaneuf did.

Again, the article shows that Phaneuf, even when playing mediocore comp, does not succeed. What more evidence is needed? He's overpaid and if they could somehow get rid of his contract they should.

Cam Talbot had a higher SV% and lower GAA than the Rangers "other" goalie Henrik Lundqvist.

Therefore can we conclude Talbot is the superior goalie because his individual starts were better?

 

[Stephen]

I think anyone who disputes the fact that Phaneuf is toronto'd best defenseman is being ridiculous.

Asside from +/- and PP goals, all those stats tell two stories. The first is that Dion is a good defenseman. The second is that he is surrounded by crap or developing kids. When Carlyle chooses to use Phaneuf in defensive situations, it's not like he is choosing him over Doughty and Suter - he's choosing him over Franaon and 19 year old Rielly.

A true number one defenseman stabilizes the group the way Phaneuf does not.

The Bruins have Krug and Hamilton coming up and outside of Seidenberg, they have a pretty pedestrian blueline. But Chara is a guy they use to stabilize and mentor. When a kid struggles, they pair him with Chara who can look after them.

Phaneuf needs a babysitter.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

A true number one defenseman stabilizes the group the way Phaneuf does not.

The Bruins have Krug and Hamilton coming up and outside of Seidenberg, they have a pretty pedestrian blueline. But Chara is a guy they use to stabilize and mentor. When a kid struggles, they pair him with Chara who can look after them.

Phaneuf needs a babysitter.

In the dynamic duo...Phaneuf should be Batman. But if he was, Robin would be dead by now.

The argument is that Batman needs a better Robin. LOL.

 

[ACC1224]

A true number one defenseman stabilizes the group the way Phaneuf does not.

The Bruins have Krug and Hamilton coming up and outside of Seidenberg, they have a pretty pedestrian blueline. But Chara is a guy they use to stabilize and mentor. When a kid struggles, they pair him with Chara who can look after them.

Phaneuf needs a babysitter.

I don't think anyone believe's Phanuef = Chara.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Zero chance. Won't even be a finalist at any point in the rest of his career.

Norris trophy calibre defensemen can play big minutes (26-29+) without any problems. Phaneuf can barely handle more than 24. Jake or Morgan probably have a better chance of winning it next year than Phaneuf.

Also yeah, he's a top 15-20 dman like Nazemlupul said. People need to start adjusting their expectations of Phaneuf like most of us have already done. I feel like the times when Phaneuf is playing bad are the times when he's trying to do more than he's capable of. When he sticks to his game and what he can do best he's fine. Will be interesting to see how he plays with Gardiner on the top pairing with him potentially.

I really hope to see this as well. Phaneuf hasn't had a good partner during his entire career. Would be interesting indeed!

Cam Talbot had a higher SV% and lower GAA than the Rangers "other" goalie Henrik Lundqvist.

Therefore can we conclude Talbot is the superior goalie because his individual starts were better?

I see what you did there.

A true number one defenseman stabilizes the group the way Phaneuf does not.

The Bruins have Krug and Hamilton coming up and outside of Seidenberg, they have a pretty pedestrian blueline. But Chara is a guy they use to stabilize and mentor. When a kid struggles, they pair him with Chara who can look after them.

Phaneuf needs a babysitter.

And what is your definition of a true #1?

In the dynamic duo...Phaneuf should be Batman. But if he was, Robin would be dead by now.

The argument is that Batman needs a better Robin. LOL.

Haha that's pretty funny. But Phaneuf needs a better partner, no question there.

 

[Bullseye]

Zero chance - no respect.

I've been saying this for awhile but not many peeps take me seriously b/c of all the anti-Phaneuf railing:

Who was the MVP of the Leafs last year? My initial answer is always Jay McClement b/c of the myriad of situations he was thrown into to stop the bleeding... but I will argue that Dion Phaneuf was the MVP last season. Why?

Phaneuf had a great season statistically but also defensively. How does that make him the MVP? Phaneuf carried the Leafs - Yes - carried the Leafs. He got tired inevitably and the Leafs crash coincided with Phaneuf's fatigue.

So who was the most impactful player to the Leafs last year - Dion Phaneuf. So goes Dion Phaneuf, so go the Leafs.

 

[BertCorbeau]

1. The Norris for this past season has been handed out

2. There is a Phaneuf discussion thread already here:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1709231&page=40