How much consideration should Dion Phaneuf get for the Norris Trophy?

[34]

Do u think its on purpose?
If u think so, tells me all i need to know about some leaf fans

You do a good job at defending Phaneuf. I'm not being smart about that at all.

Not everyone feels the same about his play and leadership though.

 

[diceman934]

Phaneuf is not terrible
That is false
Rough one for him tonight.
Everyone has them.
Yet now the haters will come out

He is over rated on this board....he is not now, nor will he ever be among the best D man in the league. He is lacking in IQ and skating and these are two keys to being a top level D man.

Did you or anyone on this Board who keeps spouting that he is a Elite D man watch the Olympics? It really is surprising that people still feel that he has a chance at the Norris....

His two biggest checks tonight were...on JVR and the linesman.

 

[diceman934]

You do a good job at defending Phaneuf. I'm not being smart about that at all.

Not everyone feels the same about his play and leadership though.

He is not a leader at all....never will be.

 

[diceman934]

Media has a hard-on for Bouw this year. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

He has had a great year, that would be the reason...

 

[mikebel111*]

He is over rated on this board....he is not now, nor will he ever be among the best D man in the league. He is lacking in IQ and skating and these are two keys to being a top level D man.

Did you or anyone on this Board who keeps spouting that he is a Elite D man watch the Olympics? It really is surprising that people still feel that he has a chance at the Norris....

His two biggest checks tonight were...on JVR and the linesman.

Where did i mention elite to dion?

I do think he is a great d man but not on elite..

Yes i watched the olympics, yes dions skating is not great which is the reason he was not on the team, but he is still a top 15 to 20 d man in the nhl.

 

[mikebel111*]

You do a good job at defending Phaneuf. I'm not being smart about that at all.

Not everyone feels the same about his play and leadership though.

Coming from who thinks leafs will miss the playoffs after 1 bad game

Lol

 

[diceman934]

Where did i mention elite to dion?

I do think he is a great d man but not on elite..

Yes i watched the olympics, yes dions skating is not great which is the reason he was not on the team, but he is still a top 15 to 20 d man in the nhl.

He is not in the top 20 even maybe 25 or so. I really do not get where he is having a great year....his plus minus is the only indicator of him playing well as there is no other indicators. There are some that indicate that he is not having a great year....far to many PK goals against, as well as short handed goals against. Far to many shots on goal against when on the ice which to me indicates that his plus minus is a result of his goalie making more saves when he is on the ice. He has made less giveaways this year but lets Gunnar do a lot of the heavy lifting. His offensive stats are way down while still leading the team in ice time on the PP.

He is over rated on here, he is our best D man but not by as much as many think.....Gunnar is not that far behind him, plays more when we are on the PK, blocks a lot of shots and take far less stupid penalties which to me is a key weakness in Dion's game.

 

[mikebel111*]

He is not in the top 20 even maybe 25 or so. I really do not get where he is having a great year....his plus minus is the only indicator of him playing well as there is no other indicators. There are some that indicate that he is not having a great year....far to many PK goals against, as well as short handed goals against. Far to many shots on goal against when on the ice which to me indicates that his plus minus is a result of his goalie making more saves when he is on the ice. He has made less giveaways this year but lets Gunnar do a lot of the heavy lifting. His offensive stats are way down while still leading the team in ice time on the PP.

He is over rated on here, he is our best D man but not by as much as many think.....Gunnar is not that far behind him, plays more when we are on the PK, blocks a lot of shots and take far less stupid penalties which to me is a key weakness in Dion's game.

That SH shots against is not only on him as u want to say it is.
Remember last season where we had a great PK. You didnt give him much credit. However now that our PK has struggled, its phaneuf's fault? Double standard much?


Its called watching the games. And i I have watched almost every game this season. I know dion has had a great season. Better than last season as well.

And if we are talking point totals? If he had like 50 points but was a -15, people would be going about he is terrible defensively. Now its the opposite, and now there is complaining about his points? Seriously? Let the guy play instead of over analyzing every mistake he makes. And IDK about u, but i prefer dion stats and plus minus over a stat I already mentioned. On a team who have many problems in own end, his plus minus is pretty impressive.


Has dion had a legit top pairing defender in his time here? Weber and suter were together. Keith has one. Bouw has one.

When dion gets a top pairing defender with him (hopefully rielly or gardiner are those defenders) he will look even better. This is no slight against gunnarson. Lets dion to settle down. Very underrated IMO. However he is more of a 2nd pairing defender.

Dion overrated? Have u seen some of the comments on here? The guy gets hated way too much. Very sad really

 

[Confucius]

Dion Phaneuf is probably the slowest top pairing D-man in the league at 29!

Absolutely, it's what probably irks me the most about him. Once he gets the puck its like we're watching slow motion. Replay.

 

[saffronleaf]

I think Dion is the ~8th best Canadian defenseman. Throw in other nationalities, and he's probably closer to 12th or so.

 

[TheVision]

Dion Phaneuf is nowhere near Norris trophy calibre.

He's a good steady Defenseman, but certainly not elite. And the reason is quite simple, and was on display last night vs the Sharks: he's an idiot! You can have all the tools in the box, but if you have nothing upstairs, you just won't know how to use those tools properly. When he makes bad decisions, they're doozies; and I'm not just talking about the hit on JVR. Though speaking of that, my biggest complaint with Dion over the past two seasons: he just doesn't have that imposing fear he had when he was younger. That may have been the hardest hit he's thrown all year. It's a shame he didn't have the grey matter to suss out that JVR was back checking at the time and the hit wasn't necessary to begin with. He's just simply not very bright.

 

[achtungbaby]

That SH shots against is not only on him as u want to say it is.
Remember last season where we had a great PK. You didnt give him much credit. However now that our PK has struggled, its phaneuf's fault? Double standard much?


Its called watching the games. And i I have watched almost every game this season. I know dion has had a great season. Better than last season as well.

And if we are talking point totals? If he had like 50 points but was a -15, people would be going about he is terrible defensively. Now its the opposite, and now there is complaining about his points? Seriously? Let the guy play instead of over analyzing every mistake he makes. And IDK about u, but i prefer dion stats and plus minus over a stat I already mentioned. On a team who have many problems in own end, his plus minus is pretty impressive.


Has dion had a legit top pairing defender in his time here? Weber and suter were together. Keith has one. Bouw has one.

When dion gets a top pairing defender with him (hopefully rielly or gardiner are those defenders) he will look even better. This is no slight against gunnarson. Lets dion to settle down. Very underrated IMO. However he is more of a 2nd pairing defender.

Dion overrated? Have u seen some of the comments on here? The guy gets hated way too much. Very sad really

Have you watched every game of the webers, or the other "elite" players, of the NHL as well? It's well and good to watch your favourite team every game but I hope you're watching other players that intently for context.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Despite the fact that the points haven't come this year, he started the season really strong, especially in his own end. Since then he's trailed off to the point hat playing 7 D and taking some minutes away from him has actually helped.

He was better last year.

Not in consideration at all, even though nobody else is really standing out this year in terms of defencemen.

 

[darrylsittler27]

None.

Phaneuff has played well for the Leafs this year. But he is nowhere in the same breath as those considered for Norris trophy. He isn't the dynamic offensive star you need for that. On many teams he is a number 2 Dman. So why are we really having this discussion?

 

[Erndog]

Dion Phaneuf is nowhere near Norris trophy calibre.

He's a good steady Defenseman, but certainly not elite. And the reason is quite simple, and was on display last night vs the Sharks: he's an idiot! You can have all the tools in the box, but if you have nothing upstairs, you just won't know how to use those tools properly. When he makes bad decisions, they're doozies; and I'm not just talking about the hit on JVR. Though speaking of that, my biggest complaint with Dion over the past two seasons: he just doesn't have that imposing fear he had when he was younger. That may have been the hardest hit he's thrown all year. It's a shame he didn't have the grey matter to suss out that JVR was back checking at the time and the hit wasn't necessary to begin with. He's just simply not very bright.

Pretty much this.

Opinions of Phaneuf vary widely. I'm of the opinion that if he's your best dman... you probably aren't going terribly far. He's good, and at times very good. He's got some tools for sure....But having said that he's also bad very often as well. He's a bonehead though that's for sure. Severly lacks hockey IQ. Brutally slow now. Poor D coverage often.

I'd have him on my team sure but I would actively be looking for a better dman at the same time. I think he's more suited for a #2 type of role. Where he isn't the lead cat. His contract makes him one though. One I think we will eventually come to regret (though I hope not).

 

[ACC1224]

Phanuef while being a great leader really has no partner to lean on. This has been and continues to be the Teams greatest need.

 

[asdf]

Dion Phaneuf is nowhere near Norris trophy calibre.

He's a good steady Defenseman, but certainly not elite. And the reason is quite simple, and was on display last night vs the Sharks: he's an idiot! You can have all the tools in the box, but if you have nothing upstairs, you just won't know how to use those tools properly. When he makes bad decisions, they're doozies; and I'm not just talking about the hit on JVR. Though speaking of that, my biggest complaint with Dion over the past two seasons: he just doesn't have that imposing fear he had when he was younger. That may have been the hardest hit he's thrown all year. It's a shame he didn't have the grey matter to suss out that JVR was back checking at the time and the hit wasn't necessary to begin with. He's just simply not very bright.

This is one of the many examples of the harsh criticism he gets. It's like he not allowed to simply make a mistake. It's always "What a boneheaded play. He's such a moronic pylon. Look at the idiot with his stupid face."

I don't know what it is but it seems like a part of it has to do with the way he looks and talks. When Lupul laid out Kadri in that game against the Canucks, how many people were calling him an idiot or moron? No, not Lupul. He's Mr. GQ with the dreamy eyes. He should be captain!

 

[Drew311]

His offensive numbers are down so he'll get zero consideration.

I'm ok with him being a 35 point defenseman if he plays defense like he has this season. I think it's arguably been his best since being traded to Toronto. It sucks that his offensive numbers are down, but I think he helps the team most when he's simply shutting the top players in the league down and keeping the puck out of the net.

 

[Mess]

His offensive numbers are down so he'll get zero consideration.

I'm ok with him being a 35 point defenseman if he plays defense like he has this season. I think it's arguably been his best since being traded to Toronto. It sucks that his offensive numbers are down, but I think he helps the team most when he's simply shutting the top players in the league down and keeping the puck out of the net.

Phaneuf has to pick and chose either he plays an offensive role and his points go up but his +/- does down or he plays defense and his points go down but his +/- does up.

I think the later helps the Leafs more although the goals against and shots against as a team is still high regardless. However it eliminates him from an Norris talk when you're not even in the top 40 in Dman scoring.

 

[Phatic]

when he stops checking teammates and scoring on bernier ill consider this topic worth a discussion

 

[pucky]

That SH shots against is not only on him as u want to say it is.
Remember last season where we had a great PK. You didnt give him much credit. However now that our PK has struggled, its phaneuf's fault? Double standard much?


Its called watching the games. And i I have watched almost every game this season. I know dion has had a great season. Better than last season as well.

And if we are talking point totals? If he had like 50 points but was a -15, people would be going about he is terrible defensively. Now its the opposite, and now there is complaining about his points? Seriously? Let the guy play instead of over analyzing every mistake he makes. And IDK about u, but i prefer dion stats and plus minus over a stat I already mentioned. On a team who have many problems in own end, his plus minus is pretty impressive.


Has dion had a legit top pairing defender in his time here? Weber and suter were together. Keith has one. Bouw has one.

When dion gets a top pairing defender with him (hopefully rielly or gardiner are those defenders) he will look even better. This is no slight against gunnarson. Lets dion to settle down. Very underrated IMO. However he is more of a 2nd pairing defender.

Dion overrated? Have u seen some of the comments on here? The guy gets hated way too much. Very sad really

That's B.S. diceman is one of the few posters willing to be objective and to evaluate Dion properly. The rest are apologists who always show up to defend his play and all they can point out are his stats offensively. Why don't the Leafs just move him to forward then?

Seriously, diceman is right on the money on everything. It's funny that posters claim 'he's hated on here' yet you're saying it in a thread in which fans are seriously discussing Norris Trophy chances. It makes your claim look ridiculous.

He's an abysmal dman and was since he was traded. His season appears to be 'better' because the team has some new forwards and the goaltending bails them out most nights they get a win. They are routinely outshot, often by a 2-to-1 margin so how is Phaneuf an elite dman in any way when he is among the highest in minutes played among defencemen? One of his trademarks is standing in front of the net doing little or being beat one-on-one. Sure, he is not bad as a point man and delivers the occasional good pass but as a shutdown dman and on the defensive side of things, he is a failure for the money he is getting paid. Seven mill. a season should be for your very best players, who excel at their position. Not those who pretend to play their position.

His speed is slow, his hockey IQ is low, his reaction time is slow... and on and on. He shows it every game. Yes, when his shot actually hits the net, it might get tipped for a goal or even go into the net on its own. He's not bad as long as he is in the other zone (offensive zone). But, that's not what makes a good dman.

The Norris trophy is often rewarding offensive production from dman but even here, the criteria doesn't support Phaneuf. You at least should show some ability when you're in your own zone. And most of his points is probably with the 1st or 2nd line when it's on, but I don't have stats for that one. I can only safely guess, that he doesn't show the skills and ability to play the position that should be rewarded with a Norris nomination. He's not good enough to earn that and shouldn't be earning 7+ mill/season. That's a lot of cash to play well, offensively, but to be mediocre at his actual position. His partner always has to do all the work at considerably lower salary.

 

[ACC1224]

That's B.S. diceman is one of the few posters willing to be objective and to evaluate Dion properly. The rest are apologists who always show up to defend his play and all they can point out are his stats offensively. Why don't the Leafs just move him to forward then?

Seriously, diceman is right on the money on everything. It's funny that posters claim 'he's hated on here' yet you're saying it in a thread in which fans are seriously discussing Norris Trophy chances. It makes your claim look ridiculous.

He's an abysmal dman and was since he was traded. His season appears to be 'better' because the team has some new forwards and the goaltending bails them out most nights they get a win. They are routinely outshot, often by a 2-to-1 margin so how is Phaneuf an elite dman in any way when he is among the highest in minutes played among defencemen? One of his trademarks is standing in front of the net doing little or being beat one-on-one. Sure, he is not bad as a point man and delivers the occasional good pas but as a shutdown dman and on the defensive side of things, he is a failure for the money he is getting paid. Seven mill. a season should be for your very best players, who excel at their position. Not those who pretend to play their position.

His speed is slow, his hockey IQ is low, his reaction time is slow... and on and on. He shows it every game. Yes, when his shot actually hits the net, it might get tipped for a goal or even go into the net on its own. He's not bad as long as he is in the other zone (offensive zone). But, that's not what makes a good dman.

The Norris trophy is often rewarding offensive production from dman but even here, the criteria doesn't support Phaneuf. You at least should show some ability when you're in your own zone. And most of his points is probably with the 1st or 2nd line when it's on, but I don't have stats for that one. I can only safely guess, that he doesn't show the skills and ability to play the position that should be rewarded with a Norris nomination. He's not good enough to earn that and shouldn't be earning 7+ mill/season. That's a lot of cash to play well, offensively, but to barely mediocre at his actual position. His partner always has to do all the work at considerably lower salary.

What is your stance on Phanuef wearing a Red Bull hat?

 

[ldnk]

Honestly. Absolutely none. He's been good this year, but he's not remotely close to being one of the best 5 defensemen in the league. He plays tough minutes but so do every single top defenseman. One of the big differences between Phaneuf and guys like Chara/Weber is that Phaneuf's quality of play tails off when he plays 24+ minutes and so he plays fewer minutes against weaker lines because his game gets worse when he take on those extra minutes.

His offensive game has nose-dived since his early career. 30-35 points is fine, but it is not #1 Defenseman with Norris trophy aspiration quality either.

 

[Faltorvo]

Not even a sniff for the Norris.

I find it comical that +/- becomes a valuable stat when they are on the + side but not so much when it's a -, funny how that works.

Heck with Norris votes, I'm still having a tough time understanding how he will have the 5th highest cap hit among all D next year.

 

[diceman934]

Phanuef while being a great leader really has no partner to lean on. This has been and continues to be the Teams greatest need.

Please point out where he leads.....he is not a leader at all, and to call him a great leader is nothing short of shocking.

Look at the stupid me type penalties he takes.....that is selfishness not leadership. Look at when he pinches, he stays in the whole shift and again it is all about him trying to do something and not for the better of the team because if so he would look for an opportunity to get back to playing his own position. When was the last time he stuck up for a team mate? Watch his face when we get scored on when he is on the ice, watch the glare at a team mate....that is not leadership. One more item I will leave you with.....watch what happens as well when we get scored against when he is on the ice and how few times he gives the goalie a tap on the pads.

His partner this year has been great, he does most of the heavy lifting while Dion stands parked screening our goalie far to much. Last night they switched sides because Dion was having trouble with Big Joe.

I wish people would really watch the game within a game and see just what is happening.