Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

[Steve Kournianos]

Yes, Vanvouver's success has everything to do with Tortarella. If he were here the Rangers would be 21-16-4 just like last season.

Wait a minute.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yes, Vanvouver's success has everything to do with Tortarella. If he were here the Rangers would be 21-16-4 just like last season.

Wait a minute.

Just going along with the narrative that coaches matter less than players.

Wheres all the folks that insisted Vigneault's coaching/system would lead to more goals and more wins?

You could put a cardboard cutout behind the bench of most NHL teams, and the results would be similar.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

The Rangers were 16-15-3 last year when they traded Gaborik.
Rangers record after 41 games since 2007:

2014 20-19-2
2013 21-16-4
2012 27-10-4
2011 23-15-3
2010 19-17-5
2009 24-14-4
2008 20-17-4
2007 20-17-4

It's not coaching. They're a mediocre team whose starts have been mediocre for a decade. Two seasons they were consistent for 3/4 of the season.

The Canucks, like the Rangers, are in a garbage division this year. Torts inherited an established elite core that's won five straight division titles. Vigneault inherited the possibility of an elite core who have had home ice in the first round once in 17 years.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Just going along with the narrative that coaches matter less than players.

Wheres all the folks that insisted Vigneault's coaching/system would lead to more goals and more wins?

You could put a cardboard cutout behind the bench of most NHL teams, and the results would be similar.

Special teams are better. Maybe they should have kept Torts and overpaid AV as a consultant. Like Gene Keady is for Steve Lavin.

And no way McDonagh QBs the 6th best PP under Torts.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You cannot conflate records of teams to point totals of players. Team-wise, you are what your record says you are.

More success than any other coach in recent memory.

So Van was a first place team year after year under AV.

You must have a short and selective memory. What was Torts win/Loss record as a Ranger? What was Tom Renneys? They are near identical.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

And the other seasons?

To predict the future, the recent past is most important. The most recent full season Torts led us to a first place finish.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Special teams are better. Maybe they should have kept Torts and overpaid AV as a consultant. Like Gene Keady is for Steve Lavin.

And no way McDonagh QBs the 6th best PP under Torts.

Powerplay is better, 5 on 5 play is worse -- and so it goes.

 

[NickyFotiu]

To predict the future, the recent past is most important. The most recent full season Torts led us to a first place finish.

The most recent season was last season. If you were not biased you would not keep cherry picking his 1 good year as a Rangers coach.

 

[Ail]

To predict the future, the recent past is most important. The most recent full season Torts led us to a first place finish.

Crazy because AV did the same thing in Vancouver the same year.

 

[Doctyl]

To predict the future, the recent past is most important. The most recent full season Torts led us to a first place finish.

i believe AV's team had a better record than torts's team that year

 

[True Blue]

So Van was a first place team year after year under AV.

You must have a short and selective memory. What was Torts win/Loss record as a Ranger? What was Tom Renneys? They are near identical.

How many times was Renney's one of final 8 teams? How many times did he make it to ECF?

How many younger players developed under Renney?

 

[Doctyl]

If it wasn't for that one good season we wouldn't be having this discussion. That year was a fluke. Hank gave us a chance to win every single game that year. He stole games we had no business winning. If anyone thinks that torts is the reason for the 2012 success you're kidding yourself. Look at every year from the last 3 coaches. Aside from that 1 outlier, we have finished in the same spots year after year. That's clearly on management not the coaches. Aside from 2012 this team has done nothing and will continue to do nothing under torts AV or whoever you put behind the bench. This team is Sather's fault not AV's.

 

[NickyFotiu]

How many times was Renney's one of final 8 teams? How many times did he make it to ECF?

How many younger players developed under Renney?

You said you are what your record is. So I ask you what was Renneys W/L record as a Ranger? What was Torts?

Renney did not make the ECF but he still had a better playoff W/L record than Torts showing that the trip to the ECF was much more a fluke than anything. It also was Lundy winning a bunch of game 7's. Despite us coming in first we beat the 8th seed by 1 goal in the first round.

How many times did Renney miss the playoffs? How many times did Torts?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

The most recent season was last season. If you were not biased you would not keep cherry picking his 1 good year as a Rangers coach.

Lockout shortened season was stupid. A season is 82 games. Last time that happened Torts took us to a first place finish.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Crazy because AV did the same thing in Vancouver the same year.

That team was way more talented. Not very impressive. The constant playoff choke jobs speak way more about AV's "skill" as a coach.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Lockout shortened season was stupid. A season is 82 games. Last time that happened Torts took us to a first place finish.

A season is as long as a season is. You have a Torts bias so you want to cherry pick his best season and ignore the others.

.530
.567
.665
.583

Which is the outlier and which is the norm?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

A season is as long as a season is. You have a Torts bias so you want to cherry pick his best season and ignore the others.

.530
.567
.665
.583

Which is the outlier and which is the norm?

It's not cherry picking, I'm favoring the last complete season. You're the one wanting to ignore the most recent complete result.

 

[Doctyl]

It's not cherry picking, I'm favoring the last complete season. You're the one wanting to ignore the most recent complete result.

AV's team was better than torts's in the last full season. 2012 was a fluke nothing more. If anyone deserves the credit for that year it's Hank not Torts.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's not cherry picking, I'm favoring the last complete season. You're the one wanting to ignore the most recent complete result.

You are playing word semantics to cherry pick 1 season. You are not picking the last season. You are not picking any of the other seasons.

AV's prior seasons

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.713
.677
.615

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

This is about as repetitive an argument as I've ever read on this forum. I've read a lot longer than I've posted, btw. As far as I see it Renney was a fine coach who was blessed with Jagr and Shanahan. As soon as those generational talents left, and were replaced with Zherdev, among others, his team's w/l record drastically changed.

Tortorella's success was in getting the young core that was phased in after the dismissal of the driftwood to exceed the success of even the Jagr years in terms of won-loss percentage.

There are a few constants in the Renney/Tortorella teams. Lundqvist is one of them. Jagr and Shanahan are not.

 

[aufheben]

AV's team was better than torts's in the last full season. 2012 was a fluke nothing more. If anyone deserves the credit for that year it's Hank not Torts.

It wasn't a fluke, Sather just blew it all to hell. Would that team have finished 1st again? Probably not, but they still would have been a good team.

Why do people downplay that season? It's one of the only things to be proud of this team for in like 20 years.

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

Why do people downplay that season? It's one of the only things to be proud of this team for in like 20 years.

Proudest I felt for this franchise in the years since the cup, no joke. And that's also admitting full well the fun it was to watch Jagr, Nylander and Straka.

That season was actually the first time I ever saw what you could consider a real NY Ranger team competing to be at the highest levels, a team that was built and/or matured together in the NYR system, for the most part, with important contributions by a limited number of FAs.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It wasn't a fluke, Sather just blew it all to hell. Would that team have finished 1st again? Probably not, but they still would have been a good team.

Why do people downplay that season? It's one of the only things to be proud of this team for in like 20 years.

Some lost souls place a premium on the style of play ) vs. ) over winning hockey games. That 11-12 team should have been added to, not altered.

Its a helluva lot tougher to capture the foundation they had than whatever the heck foundation we currently have on this team.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Some lost souls place a premium on the style of play ) vs. ) over winning hockey games. That 11-12 team should have been added to, not altered.

Its a helluva lot tougher to capture the foundation they had than whatever the heck foundation we currently have on this team.

Some lost souls place a premium on the style of play ) vs. ) over winning hockey games. That 11-12 team should have been added to, not altered.

Its a helluva lot tougher to capture the foundation they had than whatever the heck foundation we currently have on this team.

They kept the same 6 defensemen, replaced Dubinsky with Nash which 30 GMs do 1000 times out of 1000 when you consider Dubinsky's awful lost season and corresponding cap hit.

Anisimov and Prust were role players. Losing Anisimov hurt but Prust was massively overpaid and you can't blame Sather for not agreeing to pay Prust that ridiculous raise.

I mean, they swapped Fedotenko with Pyatt and added Kreider and MZA at no cost.

They added Rick Nash in his prime to Gaborik who was coming off an all star season.

I'm not buying this intangibles BS, like I'm supposed to believe Dubinsky's penalty killing and Prust's enthusiasm cancelled out putrid offense at a tune of almost 7 million combined in cap hits.

Like Prust and Dubinsky would have made a difference in the Bruins series.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

People love the blame game after every loss, ignoring the fact that you can't go 82-0 and there is going to be nights where you just aren't talented enough.

Whose fault was it that Gaborik disappeared? Whose fault was it that Richards and Nash were postseason no-shows? Whose fault was it that Staal lost his vision? Whose fault was it that Lundqvist for the first time in his career couldn't stop the Bruins?

The players hated Torts. Respected? Maybe. But the rift was too great. They were going public with their misgivings, Lundqvist bringing the biggest scare with his comments in the offseason.

This team is 20-19-2 no matter who the coach is. The players Sather has assembled aren't working well enough to contend.