How does the D Corps get fixed?

[major major]

For next year:

XXXX - Savard
Murray - Goloubef
Bodnarchuk - Paliotta
Connauton

A lot more obscure names from the AHL on this d group, but i think it's better than the group we have now. All of these guys can move the puck. The passing out of the D zone has been brutal this year - not terrible giveaways, but off the skates out of reach kind of stuff. I'll gladly go for a guy who can pass over a guy like JJ. His shot/pass accuracy is an issue. At 5 on 5 he's always been poor at generating offence. I don't see us needing him, especially now that we have so many other powerplay options. Above all i think it's time to move on.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

I'm watching just LEM highlights, but Paliotta seems to make too many bad plays/decisions. He's directly responsible for at least 2 goals in the last 2 games I've seen: 1st Iowa goal on 12/04 and 1st Grand Rapids goal on 12/05. Terrible pinch ins and turnovers like that won't be tolerated in the NHL.

 

[burnstick]

For next year:

XXXX - Savard
Murray - Goloubef
Bodnarchuk - Paliotta
Connauton

A lot more obscure names from the AHL on this d group, but i think it's better than the group we have now. All of these guys can move the puck. The passing out of the D zone has been brutal this year - not terrible giveaways, but off the skates out of reach kind of stuff. I'll gladly go for a guy who can pass over a guy like JJ. His shot/pass accuracy is an issue. At 5 on 5 he's always been poor at generating offence. I don't see us needing him, especially now that we have so many other powerplay options. Above all i think it's time to move on.

I like that line up.
A lot more speed and puck moving out of our zone.
A couple of big bodies to shut down and a couple of puck movers

I would leave Bodnarchuk and Murray together , they have looked better every game since being paired together.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I've been pleasantly surprised with Bodnarchuk. Love his skating.

 

[Smitty426]

I agree, but that offense HAS to come from our defensemen.

We're creating enough odd-man rushes. We are also getting enough offensive zone time and doing a good job at keeping it in during the powerplay. The issue isn't transition or play in our own end (usually), it's an inability to beat goalies. The way we do so is by creating traffic in front and having the shot come from the point. It's how other teams are scoring on us and it's how we're going to score on other teams.

We are decent at wristers (Murray and Savard) and going for deflections, but I'm looking for a hard, accurate slapper from the blueline. Enough of the cycling it back to the point and then hearing it go off the glass or netting because we either missed or it was blocked.

And no, I'm not complaining that Wisniewski is gone. Savard made him obsolete last year. Problem is, Savard isn't scoring like he did last year (0 goals through 26 games). We either need him to figure it out or find someone else. Currently Johnson and Murray are tied for most goals with 2 each.

Does Devils Eric Gelinas fit your needs? Heaviest shot next to Weber IMO
Not defensive smart like him though!
Gelinas has been pushed down depth chart by addl D men brought in by new regime. He's huge at 6'4 210 Shoots L $1.6M. Has tools to be good just not sure of toolbox (as has been mention in hf) would have to be used with defense first partner. Could be packaged with a guy like Seth hegelson who is having same problem with depth. They are not 1-2 D men but fit some needs

 

[Xoggz22]

I've been pleasantly surprised with Bodnarchuk. Love his skating.

I was not impressed last night. He seems like a 7, not a top 4. I also thought Tyutin was missing a blade and Cotton left his brain at home.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I was not impressed last night. He seems like a 7, not a top 4. I also thought Tyutin was missing a blade and Cotton left his brain at home.

I don't think he's anything more than a bottom pairing defenseman too, but I like what he's done so far.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

While Jarmo must shoulder some of the blame regarding the state of the defensive corps, who would have predicted that all this would happen this season:

1) Tyutin would become invisible offensively.

2) Jack Johnson couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot.

3) Goloubef would have his jaw busted.

4) Savard wouldn't have scored a goal by mid December.

5) Connauton would, more or less, return to the form that made him available on waivers.

6) Bob's first 1/8th of the season would have gotten him benched in the ECHL.

7) CMac not having a win for almost a year.

8) Murray's mediocre progress.

9) Prout's regression.

The CBJ are stuck with JJ and Tyutin. Unless they are willing to part with assets to rid themselves of them. They're both getting older and less effective and they're expensive with 2+ years remaining on their contracts.


It's a mess. But, I don't think anyone could have realistically seen how bad it would be. It's still the GMs responsibility, but I think he was blind-sided by the gravity of the problems.

 

[major major]

While Jarmo must shoulder some of the blame regarding the state of the defensive corps, who would have predicted that all this would happen this season:

1) Tyutin would become invisible offensively.

2) Jack Johnson couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot.

3) Goloubef would have his jaw busted.

4) Savard wouldn't have scored a goal by mid December.

5) Connauton would, more or less, return to the form that made him available on waivers.

6) Bob's first 1/8th of the season would have gotten him benched in the ECHL.

7) CMac not having a win for almost a year.

8) Murray's mediocre progress.

9) Prout's regression.

The CBJ are stuck with JJ and Tyutin. Unless they are willing to part with assets to rid themselves of them. They're both getting older and less effective and they're expensive with 2+ years remaining on their contracts.


It's a mess. But, I don't think anyone could have realistically seen how bad it would be. It's still the GMs responsibility, but I think he was blind-sided by the gravity of the problems.

?? Is this satirical? All of those things were either predictable or mundane.

1. Linear extrapolation would have told you that Tyutins days as a point producer are over. We discussed this.

2. JJ not being able to hit the side of a barn is an old observation. We've said that same phrase about him many times over the years. His 5 on 5 production was never good.

3. I was one of maybe 3 posters who thought Golo deserved more ice time. TR wouldn't even play him. It's hard to see how his injury upset Jarmo's plans when he wasn't in the plans to begin with.

4. Savard is getting pucks through and piling up assists. He is not a problem in any sense. I expected 40 pts and he still might hit that.

5. We weren't sure that Murray would even be playing so how disappointed can we be? And as I was saying over the summer, he has never played at a top pair level, so let's hold off on the coronation.

6. Prout hasn't been good in years. What were you expecting?

Any GM who is surprised by this D should be fired.

 

[CBJx614]

I dont think we need to get rid of JMFJ. I think we need someone to force him down the lineup. Someone to cut his workload WAY down and I think you'd see his pts/60 go way up.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I seriously wonder what the nuclear option is. I think we need to resort to that

 

[burnstick]

I was not impressed last night. He seems like a 7, not a top 4. I also thought Tyutin was missing a blade and Cotton left his brain at home.

Not sure what you were expecting from him?
No glaring issues from what I watched

Moved the puck effectively , had an active stick ,pinches were very timely , no odd man rushes.
Not much extended play in their zone.
A sign of a good defence an is that they go about their business without notice,

What does a D man do to impress ?

 

[Viqsi]

?? Is this satirical? All of those things were either predictable or mundane.

1. Linear extrapolation would have told you that Tyutins days as a point producer are over. We discussed this.

2. JJ not being able to hit the side of a barn is an old observation. We've said that same phrase about him many times over the years. His 5 on 5 production was never good.

3. I was one of maybe 3 posters who thought Golo deserved more ice time. TR wouldn't even play him. It's hard to see how his injury upset Jarmo's plans when he wasn't in the plans to begin with.

4. Savard is getting pucks through and piling up assists. He is not a problem in any sense. I expected 40 pts and he still might hit that.

5. We weren't sure that Murray would even be playing so how disappointed can we be? And as I was saying over the summer, he has never played at a top pair level, so let's hold off on the coronation.

6. Prout hasn't been good in years. What were you expecting?

Any GM who is surprised by this D should be fired.

It's not the individual predictability, it's all of them at once.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

It's not the individual predictability, it's all of them at once.

Thank you.


Give yourself a cookie. And some ice cream

 

[major major]

It's not the individual predictability, it's all of them at once.

Yes, but I'm not arguing that these outcomes are only slightly negatively skewed from reasonable expectations. I'm arguing that these outcomes were the reasonable expectations.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Yes, but I'm not arguing that these outcomes are only slightly negatively skewed from reasonable expectations. I'm arguing that these outcomes were the reasonable expectations.

I guess that case could reasonably be made. The Jackets are 28th in goals allowed this season. They weren't much better last season at 25th. I'll still cut the FO some slack. I don't think that it was as predictable as you maintain. Had Bob not stunk to the high heavens early on, the goals against wouldn't have been worse in ranking from last year. Nonetheless, it's hard to argue that the FO's failure to upgrade the defense of a 25th ranked team was a prudent course of action.

I take it, then, that you believe that since it was predictable and that nothing was done to address this then Jarmo should be finished? But, he's already Finnish.

That was terrible. I'll voluntarily ban myself till midnight 2nite.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I take it, then, that you believe that since it was predictable and that nothing was done to address this then Jarmo should be finished? But, he's already Finnish.

You didn't ask me, but...

I was an advocate of needing to upgrade the defense. I think Jarmo tried. I think he investigated lots of options, and they just weren't working out. His forward adds, Saad and Campbell, have decent to very good pedigrees defensively from the forward position. I think Jarmo had a look around, didn't think he would be able to adequately address the blueline, and worked to make his forward unit as defensively responsible as possible to help compensate.

The counter to this is "but what could Jarmo have gotten for the blueline with the same assets he used to get those two forwards?" Ignoring Paliotta, who is a non-factor on the NHL roster right now, the answer is "who knows?" Maybe he offered that exact package to a bunch of teams for a top-flight defender and was rebuffed (no pun intended) at every turn. While it's doubtful he offered that exact package, it's possible, even likely, he offered significant assets or at least put in play significant assets in the offseason to address the blueline and couldn't make it happen. So he did what he could do. Obviously I don't know - but it seems plausible, even likely, to me.

(I'm of a mind that there must have been some systemic things that were attempted in light of the offseason, and that those things utterly failed, but that's not what this is about right now, and I'm not certain that the system thing is right.)

Anyway, this is not letting Jarmo off the hook. It's an attempt to explain/understand. But Jarmo's on the hook for this blueline for sure. I agree with major that all of those things were reasonably foresee-able. I don't know whether or not he should be fired for it or given another chance to fix it or what. I don't know.

 

[JacketsDavid]

?? Is this satirical? All of those things were either predictable or mundane.

1. Linear extrapolation would have told you that Tyutins days as a point producer are over. We discussed this.

2. JJ not being able to hit the side of a barn is an old observation. We've said that same phrase about him many times over the years. His 5 on 5 production was never good.

3. I was one of maybe 3 posters who thought Golo deserved more ice time. TR wouldn't even play him. It's hard to see how his injury upset Jarmo's plans when he wasn't in the plans to begin with.

4. Savard is getting pucks through and piling up assists. He is not a problem in any sense. I expected 40 pts and he still might hit that.

5. We weren't sure that Murray would even be playing so how disappointed can we be? And as I was saying over the summer, he has never played at a top pair level, so let's hold off on the coronation.

6. Prout hasn't been good in years. What were you expecting?

Any GM who is surprised by this D should be fired.

Agree 100%. Especially on Murray seemed like MOST (maybe just a vocal minority though) assumed he was going to be a top pairing guy this season (maybe start on 2nd, but finish on first). I never assumed that, maybe someday, maybe even this season but that is a huge assumption that a young, oft injured guy will step up for 82 games.
But yes coming into year we knew the D (especially top pairing) was what needed addressed. I'm still happy with Saad trade but we should have flipped a forward after that trade, so the FO just ignored the blue line.
I know top pairing d-men aren't easy to find and it won't be easy (or cheap) but that needs addressed.

 

[major major]

We don't know what moves Jarmo tried over the summer. But it's not a new issue. Howson left Jarmo with a mediocre D group and Jarmo hasn't acquired a single D man in his tenure who is better than average.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I seriously wonder what the nuclear option is. I think we need to resort to that

The nuclear option would be making a move and installing me as GM.

Promote this at your own risk.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Anyway, this is not letting Jarmo off the hook. It's an attempt to explain/understand. But Jarmo's on the hook for this blueline for sure. I agree with major that all of those things were reasonably foresee-able. I don't know whether or not he should be fired for it or given another chance to fix it or what. I don't know.

Explaining the other side without letting someone off the hook? Careful, that'll get you branded as an apologist, a defender, and suggestions made of intimate relations with the person you're referring to!

 

[We Want Ten]

The nuclear option would be making a move and installing me as GM.

Promote this at your own risk.

Your pressers with the olde timey baseball references would be epic.

 

[EspenK]

Has the solution been found?

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[CBJx614]

Those would be the regular press conferences. The draft ones would be the stuff of legends.

Kid gets drafted, comes up, get his jersey, shakes hands, and we head off to do an interview.
REPORTER: So you grew up in a small town in northern Ontario, played for one of the best teams in the OHL, and now you're on your way to Columbus. What's it feel like?
DRAFTEE: Well-
ME: Hold on a sec. Why didn't you ask him what it's like to be going to a hockey market?
REPORTER: Excuse me?
ME: You asked every kid who's been drafted by a Canadian team what it's like to be going to "a hockey market", so why aren't you asking the kids we draft?
REPORTER: Well, I-
ME: No no, it's okay. I understand. The draft is all about all sorts of beginnings, and instead you're wanting to push some "us saints against the Americans" narrative. Tell you what, I'll just take over the interview from here. (To draftee) So, you're heading to a city that sold out each and every single game during the worst season in team history, which none of those "hockey markets" can claim. In fact, I have the annual attendance spreadsheets printed off right here; when I said I'm always prepared, that includes the possibility of a draft interview argument with pinhead reporters. Now, since none of that matters at all, what do you think is expected of you to be able to develop into an everyday NHL player?



Yeah, but they haven't extended me a contract offer yet.

If that's the first time you're asking him that question than we're in serious trouble