How Do You Rank Gretzky?

[Up the Irons]

99notthe: ' my biggest issue with Gretzky is he didn't belong in the NHL in the first place'

this may be the single most ridiculous statement ever made in the history human language.

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

Not going to spend a lot of time here, but...............

Rank Name Team(s) GP PTS PPG
1 Wayne Gretzky EDM, LA, STL, NYR 1487 2857 1.92
2 Mark Messier EDM, NYR, VAN 1756 1887 1.07
3 Gordie Howe DET, HFD 1767 1850 1.05
4 Ron Francis HFD, PIT, CAR, TOR 1731 1798 1.04
5 Marcel Dionne DET, LA, NYR 1348 1771 1.31
6 Steve Yzerman DET 1514 1755 1.16
7 Mario Lemieux PIT 915 1723 1.88
8 Phil Esposito CHI, BOS, NYR 1282 1590 1.24
9 Joe Sakic QUE/COL 1319 1589 1.20
10 Ray Bourque BOS, COL 1612 1579 0.98


............Gretzky leads the next player by almost 1,000 points.

 

[Up the Irons]

pretty much says it all, Blues. but people want to bring up these hypothetical 'could haves' and non-existant conspiracy theories, but when i guy leads by 1000 points the shear magnitude of the numbers overpowers any other arguments.

you could say 'Mickey Mantle could have if..' because he wasn't that far back.
you could say 'Aertin Senna if...' because he was the best when he died, and no one is a millions mile ahead.

but 99's numbers a just too vast.

 

[WingsFan95]

99notthe: ' my biggest issue with Gretzky is he didn't belong in the NHL in the first place'

this may be the single most ridiculous statement ever made in the history human language.

Another hot shot taking words literally.

Gretzky was a skinny little freak of a player, I don't see guys that skimpy at High School games.

 

[Ogopogo*]

That's funny. I was thinking when I read that article that those quotes actually support your claim that hockey players are poor judges of hockey players.

Orr fans are hilarious.

Christ himself could declare Gretzky a saint and you guys would bash Christ's judgement.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Another hot shot taking words literally.

Gretzky was a skinny little freak of a player, I don't see guys that skimpy at High School games.

So what, I'll take the guy who gets it done any day over the guy who looks like he should get it done. By that logic, Alexander Daigle is better than Luc Robitaille.

 

[WingsFan95]

So what, I'll take the guy who gets it done any day over the guy who looks like he should get it done. By that logic, Alexander Daigle is better than Luc Robitaille.

This goes back to my point bout Gretzky not getting the same physical treatment as any regular NHL player.

Please show me a good hit on Gretzky, please.

I know the guy lost a few teeth but that's not special.

 

[the_speedster]

This goes back to my point bout Gretzky not getting the same physical treatment as any regular NHL player.

Please show me a good hit on Gretzky, please.

I know the guy lost a few teeth but that's not special.

same with kharlmov and the vaunted russian superstars.. I mean seriously the biggest hit they ever took was bobby clarke chopping away at valeri's ankle... that's it. Pretty wimpy. That's why I too doubt all the praise players like fetisov, larionov and particularly kharlmov got... notice once they got into the nhl they were reduced to nobodies.. 3rd liners at best



please show me ONE good hit on any of these russian "superstars"

cutesy stickhandlers but in the "real man's" nhl?... just glorified alex diagles

 

[Up the Irons]

'Please show me a good hit on Gretzky, please.'

there aren't any because: 1. players were scared to commit themselves and end up looking bad as that proved to be the result THOUSANDS of times. 2. the opponents, themselves, were fans of 99 and didn't want to be the one who hurt him (save Suter and has received death threats ever since). 3. young players were in absolute AWE of 99 and wouldn't dare hit him.

as I stated early. he had 'IT'

 

[Up the Irons]

'cutesy stickhandlers but in the "real man's" nhl?... just glorified alex diagles'

i can't totally disagree with you, but Fetisov was as strong as a bull. so was Konstantinov. You got to remember, Fetisov was well past his prime when he came over.

 

[JCD]

This goes back to my point bout Gretzky not getting the same physical treatment as any regular NHL player.

Please show me a good hit on Gretzky, please.

I know the guy lost a few teeth but that's not special.

Gary Suter says hi.

 

[Stonefly]

Orr fans are hilarious.

Christ himself could declare Gretzky a saint and you guys would bash Christ's judgement.

Woah, woah, woah. Back the wagon up. Have you changed your tune now? Hockey players are good judges of hockey players? Or is it only when it suits you?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

#1.

Dominance and longevity.

 

[Reds4Life]

same with kharlmov and the vaunted russian superstars.. I mean seriously the biggest hit they ever took was bobby clarke chopping away at valeri's ankle... that's it. Pretty wimpy. That's why I too doubt all the praise players like fetisov, larionov and particularly kharlmov got... notice once they got into the nhl they were reduced to nobodies.. 3rd liners at best

What Clarke did had nothing to do with hockey, Kharlamov outplayed every player on Canadian roster so they had to remove him from the series.

Embarrassing moment. I hate Clarke for what he did.

And when Larionov and co. got to NHL, they were past their primes and this old Larionov guy still managed to score a gwg in SC finals.
And Fetisov is one of the greatest dmans to ever play, he was no worse than Denis Potvin.

Oh and note to the "99wasnotthebest": Gretzky did not get hit because he was too smart for everybody else. No.1.
Your "arguments" against Wayne Gretzky are ridiculous.
I am not Gretzky's fan, but he is the greatest.

 

[Sens Rule]

What Clarke did had nothing to do with hockey, Kharlamov outplayed every player on Canadian roster so they had to remove him from the series.

Embarrassing moment. I hate Clarke for what he did.

And when Larionov and co. got to NHL, they were past their primes and this old Larionov guy still managed to score a gwg in SC finals.
And Fetisov is one of the greatest dmans to ever play, he was no worse than Denis Potvin.

As to 1972. Truly it was a bad thing for Clarke to do.. and Clarke was a dirty win at any cost player. But one needs to understand what that series meant in Canada.

That series was a WAR... really... a battle that puts any Stanley Cup final to shame and every International series since. The Canadian players felt like this was not a hockey series but a war.. it did not start that way I think.. but after a few games Esposito has it right in saying he or the other players on Team Canada would have killed to win.

The height of the cold war... the circumstances. I have watched the series a couple of times.. the entire Canadian Team played like goons... half the freaking series they were shorthanded. Surely it was not the best display of hockey or Sportsmanship by Canada but in the context Clarke's hacking needs to be taken.

 

[Reds4Life]

As to 1972. Truly it was a bad thing for Clarke to do.. and Clarke was a dirty win at any cost player. But one needs to understand what that series meant in Canada.

That series was a WAR... really... a battle that puts any Stanley Cup final to shame and every International series since. The Canadian players felt like this was not a hockey series but a war.. it did not start that way I think.. but after a few games Esposito has it right in saying he or the other players on Team Canada would have killed to win.
The height of the cold war... the circumstances. I have watched the series a couple of times.. the entire Canadian Team played like goons... half the freaking series they were shorthanded. Surely it was not the best display of hockey or Sportsmanship by Canada but in the context Clarke's hacking needs to be taken.

Yes. But those soviet players should not be considered "the bad guys we must beat". They were just regular people, who had to and loved to play hockey. Those communists politics sitting in Moscow wanted to win as a demonstration of power of USSR. The soviet players had no choice but to do whatever they were asked to do. People who never lived under communistic reign cannot fully understand how bad it was. But those guys on the ice just represented their country and played hockey. There is no excuse for what Bobby Clarke did. Ice-hockey is sport. And what he did had nothing to do with hockey, sad really.

Everyone who has ever seen Czechoslovakia-SSSR (USSR) matches will confirm that they were always war, but still within rules and all players showed sportsmanship.

 

[Sens Rule]

Yes. But those soviet players should not be considered "the bad guys we must beat". They were just regular people, who had to and loved to play hockey. Those communists politics sitting in Moscow wanted to win as a demonstration of power of USSR. The soviet players had no choice but to do whatever they were asked to do. People who never lived under communistic reign cannot fully understand how bad it was. But those guys on the ice just represented their country and played hockey. There is no excuse for what Bobby Clarke did. Ice-hockey is sport. And what he did had nothing to do with hockey, sad really.

Everyone who has ever seen Czechoslovakia-SSSR (USSR) matches will confirm that they were always war, but still within rules and all players showed sportsmanship.

I agree.. but they were essentially soldiers in the cold war. Just like in a real war you don't hate the regular guy in the next trench but you still have to fight him to the death.

The Soviet players played proudly in that series.. it was the Canadians that acted like goons and took it far beyond the bounds of a mere hockey game... but in context that is what the series became for Canada and especially the players. If Clarke had done it in the NHL in he playoffs to some player he might regret it later.. I doubt he regrets it from 1972.

Also soldiers with Uzi's do not hang around most hockey games or threaten the Team managers... it was a different era and a truly unique situation. Clarke did what he did. Looking at in hindsight you need to take into consideration what the sereis meant at the time to the players... to the Canadian Players it was essentially a war.. a real war... not a hockey series.... unfortunately the Soviet players just doing their jobs got in the way and got brutalized.

 

[brownman*]

'"Gretzky's very underrated defensively," says Esposito'

99 was probably the best ever at stripping the puck off guys. the guy could pick anyone's pocket.

I guess you've never heard tell of the real greatest player ever. Pavel Datsyuk.

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

Here are the three men I admire most:

The Father
(Howe)

The Son
(Gretzky)

And the Holy Ghost
(Orr)

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

How do I rank Gretzky in what? Greatness or raw talent? If greatness, number 1 for sure.

 

[BNHL]

Woah, woah, woah. Back the wagon up. Have you changed your tune now? Hockey players are good judges of hockey players? Or is it only when it suits you?

Remember when I posted all the NHL players quotes about Orr and he came back with his "players opinions of other players is irrelevant" (paraphrase). I'll try to find it but his posting is prolific,you know sheer numbers means quality right?

 

[Ogopogo*]

Woah, woah, woah. Back the wagon up. Have you changed your tune now? Hockey players are good judges of hockey players? Or is it only when it suits you?

Quite the opposite, skippy. I was simply pointing out that in your world the only opinions worth listening to are those that support your view. Don't read too much into it, players opinions still aren't worth much. I was just trying to make a point in a context you understand.

 

[BNHL]

Quite the opposite, skippy. I was simply pointing out that in your world the only opinions worth listening to are those that support your view. Don't read too much into it, players opinions still aren't worth much. I was just trying to make a point in a context you understand.

More condescension,how shocking.

 

[Ogopogo*]

More condescension,how shocking.

My flaw is that I respond to indignation with more of the same...


The thing is, I actually like Orr. You guys just make it hard for people to like the man due to the content of your posts.

 

[BNHL]

My flaw is that I respond to indignation with more of the same...


The thing is, I actually like Orr. You guys just make it hard for people to like the man due to the content of your posts.

Just remember that you are our mirror image,except it's about Gretzky. Your indignation arises because you believe your stat sheets (noone elses stats matter) eliminates all opinion and argument. If all I could do was read braille I too would believe what you believe but was not blind then or now. I've come to accept that most people wil only look at numbers and so I accept that most will believe Gretzky was a better hockey player than Orr. Whoas me. I love Gretzky and I'm not going to let any self appointed,self important Gretzkyophiles change my opinion that he was second best. The eyes have it!