How Do You Feel...about the Caps?

[maacoshark]

Thank you.

So you grew up playing a different style and you value those things more than some of what we see from guys like Ovie. I think I get where you're coming from now, even if I disagree.

I grew up thinking hockey is a team sport. Pretty sure it still is.

 

[g00n]

I grew up thinking hockey is a team sport. Pretty sure it still is.

So, what are you saying? Ovechkin is not a team player, is a coach killer, and is bad for the team?

 

[Ridley Simon]

There's a team that was built around a winger and won 3 Cups. Kane and the Blackhawks were very successful.

So Toews had nothing to do with it? Keith?

Hard to quantify, but IMO, you take Kane out....they still win one cup, maybe 2. Take out Keith or Toews? Not sure they win any?

 

[txpd]

What else does Ovechkin bring this team other than scoring goals?

Its not really that hard.



and

 

[Bananas]

What else does Ovechkin bring this team other than scoring goals?

Yeah he’s also got 489 career assists.

So, um, what’s your story bruh?

 

[txpd]

I grew up thinking hockey is a team sport. Pretty sure it still is.

I umm....its a team sport where the object is to score more goals than the opposition. Right? Having a guy that is better at scoring pucks than anyone else is advantage. or...no?

Help me you guys. There was a situation, I want to say a playoff situation, where the Caps needed a goal and Ov was passing away quality scoring chances. Anyone remember that situation? I want to say he passed it to Fedorov

Ov's responsibility is to score goals. With Kuzy passing up shooting on his own breakaways, we bash the best shooter on the team for shooting?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

So Toews had nothing to do with it? Keith?

Hard to quantify, but IMO, you take Kane out....they still win one cup, maybe 2. Take out Keith or Toews? Not sure they win any?

Kane is their best player...therefor, the team is kinda built around him. Doesn't discount any other player who contributed and I agree, they probably don't win without Toews. Without Kane, they probably don't win a single one either IMO. Look at his production.

 

[trick9]

Flip John Carlson to Duncan Keith and Capitals have 3 Cups and Hawks none.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

They both called out Ovi about his lack of effort in the defensive zone and giving up on plays. No point in arguing because it happened. And both were gone shortly after. It was well known that Ovi and Oates didn't see eye to eye.

Ovie not seeing eye to eye with Oates is actually a net positive for Ovechkin. Oates was historically bad as a coach and is a snake who tried to weasel his way into the Minnesota job when Yeo was there. You're grasping for straws here, hence your "no point in arguing because it happened despite me not providing any proof so don't call me on it or I'll continue to strawman" post.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Puff puff give Trick9! Trotz would of held us back still.

 

[maacoshark]

So, what are you saying? Ovechkin is not a team player, is a coach killer, and is bad for the team?

He isnt always a team guy but he has made big strides the last 2 or 3 seasons. His game has definitely changed.

 

[maacoshark]

Ovie not seeing eye to eye with Oates is actually a net positive for Ovechkin. Oates was historically bad as a coach and is a snake who tried to weasel his way into the Minnesota job when Yeo was there. You're grasping for straws here, hence your "no point in arguing because it happened despite me not providing any proof so don't call me on it or I'll continue to strawman" post.

Oates historically bad? It wasn't much of a history. I'm not saying he was a good coach but he didn't really get a chance. You honestly have no clue if he is a good coach or not. I think you are the one grasping at straws.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

So Toews had nothing to do with it? Keith?

Hard to quantify, but IMO, you take Kane out....they still win one cup, maybe 2. Take out Keith or Toews? Not sure they win any?

They don't win anything without Kane. He was and still is the motor of the Blackhawks offensively. Hossa and Sharp helped but it was Kane doing the heavy lifting offensively.

In order of importance to the team, that's how I'd rank the Blackhawks core players:
1. Kane
2. Keith
3. Toews
4. Hossa
5. Crawford

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Oates historically bad? It wasn't much of a history. I'm not saying he was a good coach but he didn't really get a chance. You honestly have no clue if he is a good coach or not. I think you are the one grasping at straws.

Oates ran this team for two years. He had a chance to prove himself and he failed. Oates and Hanlon are the only coaches to have failed to make the playoffs in the Ovechkin era. They missed the playoffs with a good roster, as a result they got canned. It's completely fair.

 

[twabby]

Oates only had two seasons but it was clear he was unfit to coach the team. I know RMNB isn’t everyone’s favorite blog but they had a nice rundown of his flaws:

The Arguments For and Against Firing Adam Oates

 

[maacoshark]

Oates ran this team for two years. He had a chance to prove himself and he failed. Oates and Hanlon are the only coaches to have failed to make the playoffs in the Ovechkin era. They missed the playoffs with a good roster, as a result they got canned. It's completely fair.

Ya we finished 9th in the conference like 3 points back or something. Do you remember the season Ovi had? He did lead the league in goals I think but was right near the bottom of the league in plus/minus. Ovi played no defence which was why Oates called him out. I still remember the play when Oates blew up. Ovi floated back and his man scored the game winning goal very late in the game. What magnified that play was that it was late in the season and we were in a playoff battle and every point was important. And then new hired Trotz and the first thing he said about Ovi was there was too much glide to his game. And Ovi's overall game has improved since then.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

The Pens are coming off of back to back championships and in December they don't like their team so they're looking to make a major trade. This is how an actual successful organization is run. You don't owe anyone, the minute they're not productive they're gone. I really wonder what Rutherford would have done with the talent we had come through here.

 

[txpd]

Ya we finished 9th in the conference like 3 points back or something. Do you remember the season Ovi had? He did lead the league in goals I think but was right near the bottom of the league in plus/minus. Ovi played no defence which was why Oates called him out. I still remember the play when Oates blew up. Ovi floated back and his man scored the game winning goal very late in the game. What magnified that play was that it was late in the season and we were in a playoff battle and every point was important. And then new hired Trotz and the first thing he said about Ovi was there was too much glide to his game. And Ovi's overall game has improved since then.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Oates historically bad? It wasn't much of a history. I'm not saying he was a good coach but he didn't really get a chance. You honestly have no clue if he is a good coach or not. I think you are the one grasping at straws.

Objectively, he was terrible, and I'm unsure how you can reasonably think otherwise. The team finished 21st and 24th in CF% during his two years. The penalty kill was the worst in the league under his direction. He almost ruined Holtby because he claimed to know goaltending better than the goalies or his goalie coach (who left because of him). He made professional hockey players change their stick curve or blade because he felt he knew what was best for all of them. His was obsessed with handedness and that obsession caused him to deploy poor line combinations. His handling of Orlov was so bad that Orlov's agent demanded a trade. He refused to take personal responsibility for anything and publicly blamed or called out his players, insinuating it wasn't his system that was the problem but that the players were too dumb or too bad to execute his brilliant game plans. He made the Erat trade worse by playing him on his off-wing (there's that damn handedness fetish again!) and then demoting him to the 4th line when he couldn't make the adjustment. He was a micromanager to the highest degree. Do I need to go on? Holy shit he was awful.

Although maybe you're right, maybe he just didn't get a fair shot (hint: he did). But, I guess we may never know if he's a good coach because in a league run rampant with also-rans and retread coaches, there's evidently no other organization that thinks he's worth giving another shot to.

 

[maacoshark]

Oates only had two seasons but it was clear he was unfit to coach the team. I know RMNB isn’t everyone’s favorite blog but they had a nice rundown of his flaws:

The Arguments For and Against Firing Adam Oates

They all have flaws. To be honest I wasn't really big on Oates either but I didn't put the entire blame on him. BTW his first season we finished first in the southeast then lost to the Rangers in the playoffs in 7. His 2nd season we finished with 90 points 3 points out of the playoffs. Oates record as a coach wasn't terrible. Nothing close to the record Trotz has but I've seen a lot worse.

 

[maacoshark]

They don't win anything without Kane. He was and still is the motor of the Blackhawks offensively. Hossa and Sharp helped but it was Kane doing the heavy lifting offensively.

In order of importance to the team, that's how I'd rank the Blackhawks core players:
1. Kane
2. Keith
3. Toews
4. Hossa
5. Crawford

I think Toews is way more important than Kane. Toews plays against all the top lines. He takes all the important faceoffs and chips in offensively. He can also play physical if he has to. Plays on the pp and kills penalties. Kane floats around waiting for an opportunity. He does have some sick skills though.

 

[g00n]

Objectively, he was terrible, and I'm unsure how you can reasonably think otherwise. The team finished 21st and 24th in CF% during his two years. The penalty kill was the worst in the league under his direction. He almost ruined Holtby because he claimed to know goaltending better than the goalies or his goalie coach (who left because of him). He made professional hockey players change their stick curve or blade because he felt he knew what was best for all of them. His was obsessed with handedness and that obsession caused him to deploy poor line combinations. His handling of Orlov was so bad that Orlov's agent demanded a trade. He refused to take personal responsibility for anything and publicly blamed or called out his players, insinuating it wasn't his system that was the problem but that the players were too dumb or too bad to execute his brilliant game plans. He made the Erat trade worse by playing him on his off-wing (there's that damn handedness fetish again!) and then demoting him to the 4th line when he couldn't make the adjustment. He was a micromanager to the highest degree. Do I need to go on? Holy **** he was awful.

Although maybe you're right, maybe he just didn't get a fair shot (hint: he did). But, I guess we may never know if he's a good coach because in a league run rampant with also-rans and retread coaches, there's evidently no other organization that thinks he's worth giving another shot to.

Ugh, thanks for the flashback. Part of his ruination of Holtby was the overall system of defense which was founded on the overwrought notion that the goaltender had to see the shot and then the defense could recover rebounds. So our players would just let the other team shoot, and it went beyond simple tactics to avoid screening.

Oates had too many theories he would test on the team. He ran the squad like an office full of widget salesmen instead of a locker room full of pro athletes.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Ya we finished 9th in the conference like 3 points back or something. Do you remember the season Ovi had? He did lead the league in goals I think but was right near the bottom of the league in plus/minus. Ovi played no defence which was why Oates called him out. I still remember the play when Oates blew up. Ovi floated back and his man scored the game winning goal very late in the game. What magnified that play was that it was late in the season and we were in a playoff battle and every point was important. And then new hired Trotz and the first thing he said about Ovi was there was too much glide to his game. And Ovi's overall game has improved since then.

Too much blame on Ovi for the 2014 season. The defense was garbage and it was all Oates' fault. He couldn't coach anything properly outside of the PP

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Good grief.

I have heard that Ovie is one dimensional and a coach killer. That’s a load of squishy substance found in meadows.

Peruse through points per game for left wingers all time. See who is #1.

Hits like a Mack truck and yet is as durable as they come. Tough as nails and plays through injuries.

His defence is average, I would say, and yet is +90 for his career.

Arguably, the best Left winger to ever play the game and IMHO will unquestionably be the best when he finally hangs up his skates.

Unbelievable that he still gets trashed by some. Some idiot Cap fans used to “whoop whoop” HOFer Larry Murphy. Stop whooping Ovie.

 

[Calicaps]

Good grief.

I have heard that Ovie is one dimensional and a coach killer. That’s a load of squishy substance found in meadows.

Peruse through points per game for left wingers all time. See who is #1.

Hits like a Mack truck and yet is as durable as they come. Tough as nails and plays through injuries.

His defence is average, I would say, and yet is +90 for his career.

Arguably, the best Left winger to ever play the game and IMHO will unquestionably be the best when he finally hangs up his skates.

Unbelievable that he still gets trashed by some. Some idiot Cap fans used to “whoop whoop” HOFer Larry Murphy. Stop whooping Ovie.

/thread