Speculation: Hossa recapture penalty

[b1e9a8r5s]

Just a small correction, Jagr has a 1.5M GP bonus which maxes out at 45 GP. He has already made an extra 600K on top of his 4M in salary. Certainly no comparison to the situation Hossa will be in going forward.

I don't think the Hossa situation compares to Jagr all that much. My point was just the narrative of Jagr is only playing for the love of the game, is just lazy and dumb. I wasn't saying anything regarding what will or won't happen to Hossa.

 

[DPHawk]

I don't think the Hossa situation compares to Jagr all that much. My point was just the narrative of Jagr is only playing for the love of the game, is just lazy and dumb. I wasn't saying anything regarding what will or won't happen to Hossa.

I only brought up the (lack of) relationship to Hossa's situation to bring it back to the post you quoted. I agree with your point about Jagr.

 

[jls24]

So I was reading the trade boards and people mentioned Chara's cap hit dropping to his actual salary next year when he turns 40. Does anyone know about this rule? I'm having trouble finding anything on it but would Hossa's cap hit drop to his salary when he turns 40?

 

[LordKOTL]

So I was reading the trade boards and people mentioned Chara's cap hit dropping to his actual salary next year when he turns 40. Does anyone know about this rule? I'm having trouble finding anything on it but would Hossa's cap hit drop to his salary when he turns 40?

Not to my knowledge. The way I understand it is that your cap hit is the average over the life of the contract--it doesn't magically drop when you turn 40.

 

[Alklha]

So I was reading the trade boards and people mentioned Chara's cap hit dropping to his actual salary next year when he turns 40. Does anyone know about this rule? I'm having trouble finding anything on it but would Hossa's cap hit drop to his salary when he turns 40?

Kovalchuk rule.

Chara signed a 7 year $45.5m deal. Instead of having a cap hit of $6.5m for the 7 years, the cap hit is calculated by the total salary paid in the seasons prior to turning 40 ($41.5m) divided by the number of years (6). So his cap hit in the first 6 seasons of the deal was $6.917m. Each season beyond that the cap hit is determined by the salary paid, so he has a $4m cap hit.

It's there to stop cap circumvention, but obviously contracts got through before this rule was brought in because the Kovalchuk contract took it to ridiculous levels.

 

[jls24]

Kovalchuk rule.

Chara signed a 7 year $45.5m deal. Instead of having a cap hit of $6.5m for the 7 years, the cap hit is calculated by the total salary paid in the seasons prior to turning 40 ($41.5m) divided by the number of years (6). So his cap hit in the first 6 seasons of the deal was $6.917m. Each season beyond that the cap hit is determined by the salary paid, so he has a $4m cap hit.

It's there to stop cap circumvention, but obviously contracts got through before this rule was brought in because the Kovalchuk contract took it to ridiculous levels.

Oh, interesting. I'm usually pretty good with cap stuff but this somehow slipped right by me. Thanks for the reply.

 

[hawksfan50]

Today on CSN.com they had a video discussing how they have to keep Panarin...the consensus of the panelists was that they have to move an older core player and that it cannot be moving CC ...but that they should have to convince Seabrook to waive his NMC to move him..but 1 panelist mentioned .."or they have the Hossa Amnesty option"...What is that? I was unaware there was such an option..and what does it involve?First I have ever heard such a solution ...or.was that panelist in total error?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Today on CSN.com they had a video discussing how they have to keep Panarin...the consensus of the panelists was that they have to move an older core player and that it cannot be moving CC ...but that they should have to convince Seabrook to waive his NMC to move him..but 1 panelist mentioned .."or they have the Hossa Amnesty option"...What is that? I was unaware there was such an option..and what does it involve?First I have ever heard such a solution ...or.was that panelist in total error?

Do you have a link to this video? I'm not finding it on the site.

 

[ClydeLee]

Probably just means the injury-retirement scenario.

 

[hawksfan50]

Do you have a link to this video? I'm not finding it on the site.

It is I the Sports Talk live section of the Blackhawks section on CSN.com. ..the discussion topic is headlined "Who Is The Blackhawks MVP"...so far this season they meant..and so Panarin I tge discussion and how to keep him with tge cap problem..1 panelist said Hossa was because nobody expected him to put up these numbers again ..but then on how to keep Panarin and tge usual try to trade Seabrook as tge most logical core vet to go if they can convince hin to waive,tge other option was mentioned ed as tge Hawks using g the Hossa Amnesty option...This was not elaborated...The amnesty but-out options ended in 2014/15 ..so it cannot be that ..and eve then I do not tho K it applied to circumvention contracts like Hossa..So what was thus panelist referring g to?It is a mystery.

The only solution I can think K of is if he defected to the KHL...remember he only gets $1million in actual pay for each of the 4 remaining ingredients years of his contract starting next season...Suppose he defects to Jokerit...tge Finnish club plays in the KHL ..but at least he would not have to be based in Russia ..But by defecting (for more money) he has not retired on tge Hawks nor
was there a trade..so maybe the Hawks woukd then be off the cap hook.?But if he comes back to tge Hawks after say 1 or 2 years woukd not the o ligation of 4 more Co tract years be ongoing then? OR if he completes 4 years if then retires do the Hawks have to account t for 4 more yes of his cap hit from
that point tin time or can tge Hawks simply say the defection breached his NHL contract and tgey have no contract rights or obligations to him?I do nit see thus as any amnesty solution but it might be a legal contractual solution?

 

[piteus]

It is I the Sports Talk live section of the Blackhawks section on CSN.com. ..the discussion topic is headlined "Who Is The Blackhawks MVP"...so far this season they meant..and so Panarin I tge discussion and how to keep him with tge cap problem..1 panelist said Hossa was because nobody expected him to put up these numbers again ..but then on how to keep Panarin and tge usual try to trade Seabrook as tge most logical core vet to go if they can convince hin to waive,tge other option was mentioned ed as tge Hawks using g the Hossa Amnesty option...This was not elaborated...The amnesty but-out options ended in 2014/15 ..so it cannot be that ..and eve then I do not tho K it applied to circumvention contracts like Hossa..So what was thus panelist referring g to?It is a mystery.

The only solution I can think K of is if he defected to the KHL...remember he only gets $1million in actual pay for each of the 4 remaining ingredients years of his contract starting next season...Suppose he defects to Jokerit...tge Finnish club plays in the KHL ..but at least he would not have to be based in Russia ..But by defecting (for more money) he has not retired on tge Hawks nor
was there a trade..so maybe the Hawks woukd then be off the cap hook.?But if he comes back to tge Hawks after say 1 or 2 years woukd not the o ligation of 4 more Co tract years be ongoing then? OR if he completes 4 years if then retires do the Hawks have to account t for 4 more yes of his cap hit from
that point tin time or can tge Hawks simply say the defection breached his NHL contract and tgey have no contract rights or obligations to him?I do nit see thus as any amnesty solution but it might be a legal contractual solution?

Fiddy - they are media gasbags. Unless these guys are hockey experts ... don't believe a word they say. This board is far more knowledgeable than most of the idiots giving their hot takes on air. Listen to LeBatard ... he'll tell you how most of their opinions are without much vetting.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Fiddy - they are media gasbags. Unless these guys are hockey experts ... don't believe a word they say. This board is far more knowledgeable than most of the idiots giving their hot takes on air. Listen to LeBatard ... he'll tell you how most of their opinions are without much vetting.

For the most part, you're probably right. However I'd say Jay Zawaski and Scott Powers are pretty good when it comes to the Hawks beat, those guys are better than the CSN people.

 

[piteus]

For the most part, you're probably right. However I'd say Jay Zawaski and Scott Powers are pretty good when it comes to the Hawks beat, those guys are better than the CSN people.

Yeah ... if they are hockey experts, there might be something more than we know.

 

[ModryJazyk]

such expectations that Hossa, who made about 100M in his career would take his wife and young daughters from Chicago somewhere to Finland or Russia to play the KHL, that he would fly with **** planes like his close friend +Demitra+ did to play **** games somewhere in Siberia or Vladivostok, that he would live in **** hotels and finish his great NHL career in crap league and that all just to earn one or two million more in 38+ and in his last 2-3 seasons, this is the biggest BS in Hawks part of HFB and ppl who said it have no idea who Hossa really is.

 

[hawksfan50]

Well...if somebody offered you triple you paycheck or more (he is only getting $1million a year from the Hawks the next 4 years)...Helsinki might not be such a bad place to finish out in..plus less games less wear and tear on aging body and more time for family.The NHL 82 game season plus playoffs for Amy 38,39 40 and 41 year old starting the season for only $1million more to the bank account ..well maybe you endure the hotels in Vladivostok or OMSK occasionally when your team plays the odd game there ..Yes..m why would Hossa do it to help the Hawks cap situation going forward? HE would not do it for that reason..but only because more money for less games and not playing the NHL grind for peanuts at his age just might make more logical sense ...not saying he will do this. .only say g it might make some sense to him...and who in their tight minds woukd turn down perhaps $8 million (or even more)more in the bank when he retires after 4 more seasons ? BUT hey its only money and more family time ..who coukd spit on that just to keep playing on the Hawks for a 1 /5th of what they paid him on average before the final 4 years..Besides ..how do you know the hotels are so bad in Vladivostok or OMSK that you cannot endure an occasional one ir two night stay?On the other hand Helsinki or St.Petersberg are quite lovely places to stay for a while. SO why can we not speculate about such a cap solution? No ..he will stay ..just for the love of the Hawks ...torture his aging body through the NHL grind 4 more years and will not retire because of re-capture..he would never hurt the Hawks doing that ...woukd he?...could he? So if he really does not want to put himself through the nhl grind for realistically less chances at another Cup (given the Hawks tight cap and if tgey have to drop either Panarin or a high priced core guy to keep Panarin and cannot add good free agents due to cap or cannot get a lot try pick of elite talent to get them. Black on top...and as tge core afesvover ghe next 4 years too..well.maybe Hossa looks at it and says no way can we win a Cup again
..so options are retire and he screwsvtgebHawksbon re-capture. ..play it not for peanuts and the sacrifice on his body. ..or get more money in Europe/KHL either for all 4 years borage year to year and make retirement decision as per when hevthinksvhevdoescnot want to play more for can amount offered...BUT via defection ...there bis no way tge Hawks can be penalized by re-capture. .So it is a potential solution.I only threw it in as a hypothetical. .not saying he or the Hawks have discussed it.....There is no guarantee that Hossa over tge next 4 seasons here will score like he has this season ...perhaps this is his 1 last spurt of stardom before it starts going in the direction of last season again?We Do not know...but still the amount of money is a lot less going forward here ..and the 82 game plus playoffs grind in the NHL.is tough on every player let alone a player 38,39,40,41 starting each of the 4 final years of a contract ...this is not Jagr..play till 50 wish ...he knows he cannot put in the 2 -way effort to his usual high standard over all those final 4 seasons ...Different if all they asked was pp specialist and less minutes just score a bitt ..do not worry too much about checking. .Q woukd never allow that ..So considering the big picture. .Maybe he does explore the defection option...Also who is to say that the Hawks say to ho. .well when you do retire from Whatever KHL team you defect to after 4 seasons there maybe we have a scout job in Europe for you. ..if you want it. ..just saying?

NOW ...IF such a scenario plays out...I said IF...then via defection the NHL cannot impose re-capture to the Hawks ...at least for every seaon till he retires from the KHL ..But
let us say he plays only 2 more seasons there...woukd tge NHL then charge the Hawks re-capture fir the final 2 seasons of his NHL deal?Because he has retired from pro hockey? OR does tge defection if it happens ,give tge Hawks the option to waive all his rights once defected due to breach of contract?I am not a lawyer. .so who knows?The point of all this speculation is whether their is a way out of re-capture if he does not play boutique his NHL contract ...I think defection is a solution..IF he wants it ...there woukd be benefits to him and to the Hawks ...at least while he still.plays in the KHL ..but do we get re-capture amnesty for such a breach immediately if we claim such an amnesty due to defection or must we wait the entire 4 years more hoping he does not retire from the KHL.before the time on his NHL contract expires...because Bettman will re-impose re-capture if he retires

while the Hawks still gave his rights and contract obligations to fulfill..It would seem impossible that Bettman coukd ever penalize tge Hawks if he plays out the defection 4 seasons and this past expiry of his NHL contract period .. I cannot see how Bettman coud argue t he still owed the Hawks 4 more years and since he
will never play again anywhere after his retirement announcement from the KHL that they can force him to honour the NHL contract
...Surely tge Hawks can merely say legally that they view the defection 4 yearscealiercas a breach and all rights and obligations ended at that time not through anything they coukd do about it ...MAYBE Bettman argues the Hawksbplottedcthis loophole "circumvention " stately vial defection by collusion with Hossa ..but that seems a thorny legal battle and on thin ice (pardon thenpun)...Hawks lawyers woukd fight it ...So as I see it Defection is a solution..certainly if he plays out 4 last year's I tge KHL...retires from there after 1 ,2 or 3 seasons ..well then it is ca legal question whether the NHL still can re-impose a re-capture upon retirement with time remaining on the expiry for his NHL contract (as if Hawks still had rights to his services..s9ohis retirement ruled as a trigger to re-capture at that time,OR whether the Hawks argue rights and obligations ended upon contract breach via defection and thus no re-capture applies from the time contract ended due to defection breach .


It is all a very interesting speculation...might never hapoen..but what IF?

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Today on CSN.com they had a video discussing how they have to keep Panarin...the consensus of the panelists was that they have to move an older core player and that it cannot be moving CC ...but that they should have to convince Seabrook to waive his NMC to move him..but 1 panelist mentioned .."or they have the Hossa Amnesty option"...What is that? I was unaware there was such an option..and what does it involve?First I have ever heard such a solution ...or.was that panelist in total error?

I saw that too. It was from Hub Arkush. He is a football guy and clearly didn't know what he was talking about. Nothing to see here.

 

[Rugbyplayer*]

such expectations that Hossa, who made about 100M in his career would take his wife and young daughters from Chicago somewhere to Finland or Russia to play the KHL, that he would fly with **** planes like his close friend +Demitra+ did to play **** games somewhere in Siberia or Vladivostok, that he would live in **** hotels and finish his great NHL career in crap league and that all just to earn one or two million more in 38+ and in his last 2-3 seasons, this is the biggest BS in Hawks part of HFB and ppl who said it have no idea who Hossa really is.

What a closed minded person. Obviously Eastern Europe's infrastructure is not on par with the Canadian or American infrastructure, however it definitively is not ****. And KHL in no way, shape of form is a crap league.
But I do agree that Hossa should finish his career in NHL.