Speculation: Hossa recapture penalty

[jls24]

I don't believe the NHL has any intention of enforcing these recapture penalties. It was probably put in to quiet the crowd banging their fists screaming how unfair these contracts were just because their gm's weren't smart enough to think of structuring a contract this way. When the time comes, Hossa will be Pronger'd and the league won't bat an eye. The fact that it's retroactive is ridiculous anyway, since the league approved these contracts to begin with.

 

[SAADfather]

How does the recapture work if Hossa gets drafted by an expansion team? Is everything reset?

I'll have to find the exact rule tomorrow but I'm pretty certain if he gets drafted by an expansion team it's completely off our hands.

 

[piteus]

I'll have to find the exact rule tomorrow but I'm pretty certain if he gets drafted by an expansion team it's completely off our hands.

If that's the case, does Hosaa like to gamble (Las Vegas) OR speak a weird dialect of French (Quebec).

 

[SAADfather]

If that's the case, does Hosaa like to gamble (Las Vegas) OR speak a weird dialect of French (Quebec).

I cant imagine any team takes him in the expansion draft. With Hossa making such a low actual salary, it's very possible if an expansion team drafts him he'd just rather retire.

 

[piteus]

I cant imagine any team takes him in the expansion draft. With Hossa making such a low actual salary, it's very possible if an expansion team drafts him he'd just rather retire.

Yep ... my bet is Seabrook.

 

[Honey Bear]

Why are we discussing this now? Hossa isn't going anywhere. When the time comes for him to retire, we can discuss it then.

We are going for another cup. Forget about this ********.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Hey speaking of changing usernames, THATS where Coldsteel scampered off to. He changed his name to digdug

 

[BK]

Hey speaking of changing usernames, THATS where Coldsteel scampered off to. He changed his name to digdug

I remember some of his posts, lol. Didn't he despise Emery?

 

[bayshoni]

I remember some of his posts, lol. Didn't he despise Emery?

Also, big Cutler fan.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I remember some of his posts, lol. Didn't he despise Emery?

Yup, and he hated Bowman for never going all in.

 

[Bhay99]

Yup, and he hated Bowman for never going all in.

Surely he will come back to sing his praises then.

 

[bwana63]

I don't believe the NHL has any intention of enforcing these recapture penalties. It was probably put in to quiet the crowd banging their fists screaming how unfair these contracts were just because their gm's weren't smart enough to think of structuring a contract this way. When the time comes, Hossa will be Pronger'd and the league won't bat an eye. The fact that it's retroactive is ridiculous anyway, since the league approved these contracts to begin with.

I think you're right.

 

[hawksfan50]

But an expansion draft is not a trade..So legally the Hawks probably have a case to escape re-capture if he gets selected by a.n expansion team then retires either immediately or plays 1-2 more seasons ..So if there is expansion for the 2017/18 season ,Hossa would make $1million in salary
in each of the 4 remaining years ...Hardly incentive to keep playing..But why would he get selected in expansion? Because his cap hit remains over $5 million and it only costs the expansion tea.m $1million per year in actual dollars and that helps them get to the Floor ...if e desires to keep playing they would get the full.benefit of paying little for a lot of help to get to the cap floor ..If he immediately retires then the contract re-capture penalty can be
Used by the expansion team to get them to the floor and it costs them nothing in salary! So it would be very valuable to select him.

Why would the NHL allow this? BECAUSE IF the wording of the re-capture penalty clauses on this type of circumvention contract in the CBA specify the word trade as having the contract still attaching to Chicago as far as re-capture penalties if he retires on a team Chicago trades him to then Chicago gets off scot-free if he retires on another team other than Chicago because he was never traded to them..If the language of the re-capture clauses specify only the contingency of Hossa retiring for any team and do not specify anything else THEN and only THEN would Chicago have to pay re-capture ...The clauses need not specify an expansion exemption but they must imply that any retirement before expiry while the contract is owned by Chicago or by a team Chicago has Traded the contract to is a trigger for re-capture. So unless it either specifically also covers the expansion loophole not cancelling the Hawks risk of re-capture penalties OR simply states any retirement before expiry triggers re-capture to Chicago no matter who owns the contract at the time if retirement...there has to be an implication that expansion gets tge Hawks off any penalty since they no longer own the contract and unlike a trade received no benefits in assets of trading the contract. Now I am not sure of the wording in the CBA on this...So if the expansion selection scenario is not included from the CBA clauses pertaining to re-capture on this contract or is not covered because only trade scenario is specifically mentioned, OR unless the Retirement case before expiry is stated only as that and refers to no specific team ...THEN it appears the Hawks cannot be legally subject to any re-capture if he is selected in expansion and retires early before his contract expires .

IF anyone has the exact CBA wording on this it should clarify whether or not we would be off the hook or not .I believe tge only discussions I have heard on re'-capture specify if he retires early on the Hawks or any team they would TRADE him to...But I am guessing the NHL left out the expansion selection scenario in these clauses. I am not a lawyer but IF there is any loophole excusing the Hawks for re-capture risk should he be taken in expansion I am certain the Hawks team of lawyers will insist the NHL uphold such a loophole.

TO DO THIS the expansion team must be allowed to gain cap benefit (help using the re-capture penalties as away for them to reach the floor at little or zero dollar cost depending on when Hossa retires ON THEM as owners of the contract) otherwise they would never bother selecting him in the first place.

If Bettman tries covering a mistake in the CBA that failed to shut down this loop-hole escape mechanism for the Hawks by merely pontificating some Head Office Interpretation that the penalty clause .ere meant to cover all future owners of the contract bit the penalties only doubling back on the Hawk, the Hawks lawyers would take Bettman/NHL to court on this as he has no authority to change what is or is not in the CBA...

So it all comes down to exact wording in those
Re-capture penalty clauses.
If these were never in the CBA but merely what the NHL told the Hawks after final approval.if Hossa's contract,then it comes down to written or recorded voice explanations at the time of approval ..because if the NHL merely asserts a current interpretation of what they thought they meant then to cover all future scenarios and the Hawks assert expansion escape loop-hole never was conveyed to them as inclusive in scenarios where tge penalty would apply ...then Hawks lawyers would surely fight to dismiss legally any inclusion NOW via new interpretation of what NHL meant THEN.

 

[Happyhary9]

When Hossa is ready to retire, all he has to due is say he doesn't feel fit to play because of back pain. Team Doctor says he is unfit to play and Hossa collects his paychecks till the contract is up.

Closest thing to it was the Mogilny dispute. He injured his hip in 03-04 came back that year and then was out the next year due to the no season (lockout). Signed with NJ who would then get in cap hell so they sent him down to the AHL that year. Not wanting to play in the AHL the next year he was going to retire but NJ placed him on the LTIR claiming he was unfit to play because of a degenerated hip and there Doctor signed of on it. NHL even had a independent Doctor (only time ever) look into it. The other doctor claimed that due to the hip injury occurring in the NHL he was ruled to be unfit due to a hockey injury. Note he was on a 35+ contract which is why he could not just retire and NJ have no cap hit.

When it comes down to it NHL contracts are guaranteed and players can not be forced to retire due to injury. If Hossa comes in and says my back just can't take it at this time and the team doctor says he is unfit to play he would then go on LTIR until he decides he wants to come back or his contract expires. Only thing that could happen is the NHL wants an independent Doctor to look at Hossa as well. But the chance that a Doctor would rule that Hossa about back pain which has be documented in his NHL career is slim to none.

 

[Venthon]

When Hossa is ready to retire, all he has to due is say he doesn't feel fit to play because of back pain. Team Doctor says he is unfit to play and Hossa collects his paychecks till the contract is up.

Closest thing to it was the Mogilny dispute. He injured his hip in 03-04 came back that year and then was out the next year due to the no season (lockout). Signed with NJ who would then get in cap hell so they sent him down to the AHL that year. Not wanting to play in the AHL the next year he was going to retire but NJ placed him on the LTIR claiming he was unfit to play because of a degenerated hip and there Doctor signed of on it. NHL even had a independent Doctor (only time ever) look into it. The other doctor claimed that due to the hip injury occurring in the NHL he was ruled to be unfit due to a hockey injury. Note he was on a 35+ contract which is why he could not just retire and NJ have no cap hit.

When it comes down to it NHL contracts are guaranteed and players can not be forced to retire due to injury. If Hossa comes in and says my back just can't take it at this time and the team doctor says he is unfit to play he would then go on LTIR until he decides he wants to come back or his contract expires. Only thing that could happen is the NHL wants an independent Doctor to look at Hossa as well. But the chance that a Doctor would rule that Hossa about back pain which has be documented in his NHL career is slim to none.

Not to mention back pain is easy to fake. Spine injuries are no joke, and people are not willing to scrutinize them too much. It's how the pain pill epidemic really took off.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

I'm thinking next year will be Hossa's last season. Then he'll go on LTIR.

 

[Hawkscap]

I'm thinking next year will be Hossa's last season. Then he'll go on LTIR.

He makes $4 mil next year and then $1 mil in 17-18.

 

[theaub]

I think if the Hawks win next year he'll retire, if not he'll play at least one more year after it.

(obviously when I say retire, I mean retire)

 

[Kathryn Tappen]

doesn't matter; had Marian Hossa.

 

[Pez68]

To think the Hawks will deal with any kind of recapture penalty when Hossa cannot play at the NHL level anymore, is extremely naive. The NHL has already set the precedent with players rotting away on LTIR, when it's painfully obvious that they are retired and have no intention of ever coming back. All Hossa has to say is he cannot play anymore because of his back issues, and that's that. There is ZERO chance the NHL tries to fight it or tries to hit the Hawks with a recapture penalty.

 

[BlackhawkPaul]

To think the Hawks will deal with any kind of recapture penalty when Hossa cannot play at the NHL level anymore, is extremely naive. The NHL has already set the precedent with players rotting away on LTIR, when it's painfully obvious that they are retired and have no intention of ever coming back. All Hossa has to say is he cannot play anymore because of his back issues, and that's that. There is ZERO chance the NHL tries to fight it or tries to hit the Hawks with a recapture penalty.

Basically this.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah, I've been saying that very same thing ever since the Pronger situation came around. The NHL loves the Hawks and Hossa is a very well-respected player. All both sides need to do is claim a chronic injury and the league will take it at face value. Plus, let's face it, all players, especially older ones, are banged up to various degrees, so it wouldn't be an out and out lie to say that he's nursing something. Just the severity.

He still makes $4 million a year next season, so I think he'll have at least one more year left in him. Maybe another year after that. But I'm expecting him to be "retired" by 2018-19, if not shortly thereafter. If he's still playing in 2020, I'll be shocked. A million a year for an older player with multiple Cups under his belt is not a lot for the toil involved and the increased risk of a lifetime injury.

 

[LordKOTL]

I don't believe the NHL has any intention of enforcing these recapture penalties. It was probably put in to quiet the crowd banging their fists screaming how unfair these contracts were just because their gm's weren't smart enough to think of structuring a contract this way. When the time comes, Hossa will be Pronger'd and the league won't bat an eye. The fact that it's retroactive is ridiculous anyway, since the league approved these contracts to begin with.

Basically this.

Agreed. I do think, though that Hossa is going to do what Hossa wants to do because he could retire instead of LTIR. After all, would you want to play in Edmonton? It would be like playing for the 2006 'hawks!

Seriously though I don't think the option is going to be looked at unless the 'hawks are in *serious* cap hell. I'm not talking Hossa retires so Shaw could stay--I'm talking a player of Panarin's ilk might not get to stay. Having Hossa (even a Handzus-level geriatric Hossa) as a bottom-6 could be worth the cap hit for the young players he can mentor--his HockeyIQ is just that good. It would be like playing with Jagr, Selanne, Datsyuk, etc. in the twilight of their careers. It's like having an extra coach out there.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I am reminded of a Q quote shortly after the first Cup win, where he circled Hossa as being the player he'd most expect to make the jump to the coaching circle when he's finally done as a player.

Whether it be back in Europe or in the NHL, I'm expecting him to follow through on that. Who knows? Maybe a player coach situation where Hoss is on LTIR and he's an assistant or specialty coach under Q?

 

[piteus]

It's quite obvious Hossa was not healthy the past two years. Because he's the ultimate professional he never complained. But when this guy is right, he's still one of the best all around players in the game and so easy to play with. There's a reason why his teams always seem to make deep runs in major tournaments.

Don't get me wrong, Hossa's not the finisher he once was despite his recent goal streak. But the other parts of the game hasn't noticeably slowed down. He's still darn good. Let's just make sure to keep Hossa fresh for the playoffs. This guy is a freak of nature. And one day when Hossa retires, he'll always be known as Blackhawk and not as a Senator.