Confirmed with Link: (Hornqvist traded to Florida for Matheson + Sceviour) Part 2

[Kristopher Letang]

So you’re saying there’s a chance they might waive JJ?

 

[Andy99]

So wait. Rutherford gets shit for not telling Hornqvist what’s up and now he gets shit for telling Hornqvist there is no realistic trade and he may need to waive him to financially get where we needed this year?

Which is it?

he just gets shit...I mean IS shit...

 

[Gurglesons]

he just gets shit...I mean IS shit...

Agreed, but we can't criticize him both ways. It's either one or the other.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tough times require tough decisions. In a year impacted by a pandemic where there is a flat cap I don’t have any issue with making a decision to waive a player. However if the first player you aren’t waiving is Jack Johnson therein lies the issue.

JJ makes less and who knows what we are going to do with him. Rutherford's comments aren't exactly warm to JJ since he acquired Matheson.

 

[StroShow]

Can someone who’s good with our cap math layout what buying out JJ looks like? They could waive him too. I could see somethings we didn’t expect if we can ship him out because of cap issues

Buyout cap hit

2020-21: 1.67M
2021-22: 1.67M
2022-23: 1.9M
2023-24: 900K
2024-25: 900K
2025-26: 900K

If he is waived/buried in the AHL for the remainder of his deal

2020-21: 2.175M
2021-22: 2.175M
2022-23: 2.175M

 

[Andy99]

Buyout cap hit

2020-21: 1.67M
2021-22: 1.67M
2022-23: 1.9M
2023-24: 900K
2024-25: 900K
2025-26: 900K

If he is waived/buried in the AHL for the remainder of his deal

2020-21: 2.175M
2021-22: 2.175M
2022-23: 2.175M

according to capfriendly, it’s 1.167 mil the first two years, not 1.67, and $916k last three years...

 

[EightyOne]

Lol

There's no defending JR anymore

 

[66-30-33]

Buyout cap hit

2020-21: 1.67M
2021-22: 1.67M
2022-23: 1.9M
2023-24: 900K
2024-25: 900K
2025-26: 900K

If he is waived/buried in the AHL for the remainder of his deal

2020-21: 2.175M
2021-22: 2.175M
2022-23: 2.175M

I'd put him in the AHL. 2.175M dead cap space >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JJ and his 3M+ of dead cap space.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Not defending JR but if that was the reality (not saying it should be) you can’t get mad at him for telling the player that.

That’s transparent and honest and I know I’d like to know something of that nature before I reject a trade to a place with ample forward slots.

I’ve ripped on JR for this deal but that’s not really an issue assuming it’s true.

 

[Tom Hanks]

its not out of spite. Its the reality at hand. IF its true, its because they believe they might have to waive him im assuming because of cap issues.

It was fair warning that not waiving still wasnt going to have a happy ending.

Cap issues doesn’t make sense though because the trade took on on 775k more cap.

 

[Jacob]

Cap issues doesn’t make sense though because the trade took on on 775k more cap.

Spread out amongst 2 players, one of which is a UFA in a year and can be buried in the AHL with minimal cap impact.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cap issues doesn’t make sense though because the trade took on on 775k more cap.

Real dollar wise they are saving 600kish this year.

Rutherford was likely threatening Hornqvist because his NTC doesn't cover waivers if he didn't accept the trade. Basically throwing Hornqvist to the wind and allow PIT to clear salary to sign Tanev and likely stacking the back end of the contract to lighten up their contractual obligations this year.

Every trade we've made so far this year has saved us real dollars this year.

 

[888 98 twins]

That’s perfectly acceptable leverage to hold over a guy with just a ntc and not full nmc. Stop crying about every little thing, it makes the crying when it’s warranted meaningless.

 

[Gurglesons]

That’s perfectly acceptable leverage to hold over a guy with just a ntc and not full nmc. Stop crying about every little thing, it makes the crying when it’s warranted meaningless.

I'm not even sure it is leverage. It's simply saying you're done here with what we are paying you and the pandemic whether I can find a trade or not.

 

[Pens x]

JR is an awful GM but I don’t blame him for threatening to waive Horny if he didn’t accept the trade.

That being said, how and why is JJ still on the team?

What are we possibly waiting for? Is Crosby pressuring the team to keep him? Does the team actually think he’s okay?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Some posters appear to be bigger Hornqvist fans than Penguins fans.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

according to capfriendly, it’s 1.167 mil the first two years, not 1.67, and $916k last three years...

If that is the case then buyout option is better. Yeah it lasts 3 years longer but we save 1mil extra for the first 3 years. The last 3 years with buyout(would be done if he was waived) is 900k...thats nothing.

But instead of doing this, I still say we can trade him. When you look at most buy outs, they are forwards . Alzner is the only dman I can think of that has been buried so far. And he was on a worse contract. If we add a prospect like Lafferty and someone else on his level , but younger I am sure we could move him. Why wouldnt someone like the Wings and Sens do that?

Or We can wait til the deadline so there is only basically 2 years left on the deal if we have to(having him on roster for the season isnt going to prevent us from making playoffs) if there is a team desperate for help on D due to injuries. We just include him in a trade for something we want back. If not then next off season, 2 x 3.25 would be much easier to move.

Only way I would want him out right now at any cost is if it means we could be getting a free agent like Mike Hoffman, Dadanov, etc by clearing his full cap. If not then it doesnt really matter since we were always gonna go after one of the cheaper UFAs. So if hes not stopping us from really improving the team right now, why not just wait?

There are a lot of teams out there who need dmen. And dmen dont come cheap. Any solid one is getting paid 4+ mil. Thats what we need to remember.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If that is the case then buyout option is better. Yeah it lasts 3 years longer but we save 1mil extra for the first 3 years. The last 3 years with buyout(would be done if he was waived) is 900k...thats nothing.

But instead of doing this, I still say we can trade him. When you look at most buy outs, they are forwards . Alzner is the only dman I can think of that has been buried so far. And he was on a worse contract. If we add a prospect like Lafferty and someone else on his level , but younger I am sure we could move him. Why wouldnt someone like the Wings and Sens do that?

Or We can wait til the deadline so there is only basically 2 years left on the deal if we have to(having him on roster for the season isnt going to prevent us from making playoffs) if there is a team desperate for help on D due to injuries. We just include him in a trade for something we want back. If not then next off season, 2 x 3.25 would be much easier to move.

Only way I would want him out right now at any cost is if it means we could be getting a free agent like Mike Hoffman, Dadanov, etc by clearing his full cap. If not then it doesnt really matter since we were always gonna go after one of the cheaper UFAs. So if hes not stopping us from really improving the team right now, why not just wait?

There are a lot of teams out there who need dmen. And dmen dont come cheap. Any solid one is getting paid 4+ mil. Thats what we need to remember.

When you say there might be a team desperate for help on D, what does that actually have to do with Jack Johnson?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Cap issues doesn’t make sense though because the trade took on on 775k more cap.

But it filled two roster spots instead of one

 

[Empoleon8771]

So wait. Rutherford gets shit for not telling Hornqvist what’s up and now he gets shit for telling Hornqvist there is no realistic trade and he may need to waive him to financially get where we needed this year?

Which is it?

I think people just want to give JR shit because Penguins fans love to whine about him.

 

[pistolpete11]

Who the f*** is Taj? And does anybody have the clip or article where Friedman said that? Or is this some other Elliotte?

 

[Shady Machine]

Can someone explain to me the logic of needing to waive Hornqvist when you added Matheson and Scevior in return? $4.7m in cash vs $5.3 hardly seem like a big enough savings, especially when JJ is still around.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Can someone explain to me the logic of needing to waive Hornqvist when you added Matheson and Scevior in return? $4.7m in cash vs $5.3 hardly seem like a big enough savings, especially when JJ is still around.

I think it has to do with the Penguins needing roster space at forward more than anything. I don't know that Hornqvist would have been a waiver candidate next year, but it's definitely possible in the last 2 years if guys like O'Connor, Poulin, Lafferty and Angello progress well.

That's why Sceviour on a 1 year deal makes sense. Let him play out this year and then you have an additional forward slot available for a younger player.

 

[JRS91]

I guess this is why they acquired Kapanen.

I don't want to say Kapanen plays the same game as Hornqvist, but Hornqvist obviously wasn't going to play on Crosby's RW. I'm not sure why Crosby didn't like playing with Hornqvist given their success, but whatever the reason I think they're hoping Kapanen can bring that element to Crosby's line while being much younger and cheaper.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Can someone explain to me the logic of needing to waive Hornqvist when you added Matheson and Scevior in return? $4.7m in cash vs $5.3 hardly seem like a big enough savings, especially when JJ is still around.

Big piturce.

They clearly have X expected budgt on D and want to spend Yish on forwards and Cant do it with Hornqvist.

Matheson adds about 1.5 over JJ. So anythin less than 4ish on 3rd line RW is a net positive on cap savings.