I wouldn't, Bridgeport is not a very attractive city or destination. Not that Albany is either but Albany has some other positives such as its very political and has a lot of juice. Major concerts and college basketball thrives in the arena as well. With the Devils old guard gone it appears the Devils philosiphy is changing. Albany media are now allowed to come in, the organization is including the media, and the team is reaching out to the community. I have relatives up in Clinton Park near Saratoga, they said the area is definitely a Ranger market, they said a few years back the Rangers and not the Devils did a preseason game on a Wed night between the Rangers and Devils lol (in the Devils own arena) the Rangers as the home team for preseason NHL tune up drew over 9000 fans and probably 6000 or more were in Rangers gear. I think if the Devils do right by Albany this season were likely to see the lease renewed and the Devils remain anyway. It seems both sides want each other, I bet Albany gives the Devils a sweetheart deal and they in return agree to three more season.
Hope for the A-Devils?
- Thread starter HansH
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I wouldn't, Bridgeport is not a very attractive city or destination. Not that Albany is either but Albany has some other positives such as its very political and has a lot of juice. Major concerts and college basketball thrives in the arena as well. With the Devils old guard gone it appears the Devils philosiphy is changing. Albany media are now allowed to come in, the organization is including the media, and the team is reaching out to the community. I have relatives up in Clinton Park near Saratoga, they said the area is definitely a Ranger market, they said a few years back the Rangers and not the Devils did a preseason game on a Wed night between the Rangers and Devils lol (in the Devils own arena) the Rangers as the home team for preseason NHL tune up drew over 9000 fans and probably 6000 or more were in Rangers gear. I think if the Devils do right by Albany this season were likely to see the lease renewed and the Devils remain anyway. It seems both sides want each other, I bet Albany gives the Devils a sweetheart deal and they in return agree to three more season.
Tao Jersey Jones
Registered User
So you are going to put your hockey team in a city where there is strong competition for customers $$$$??? That is the problem Albany has now, too many other options other than sitting in a near empty 15,000 seat arena with no atmosphere and falling asleep.....
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Pretty good example of how the local paper supports the team. That guy is brutal.
I've heard that NYR will be in Utica next year.
I've heard that NYR will be in Utica next year.
No atmosphere lol, maybe nowadays but the River Rats and Red Wings rivalry of the 1990s was an NHL atmosphere from the pictures my relatives showed me. Utica and Albany, same number of fans, so you have one group that attends games in a sardine can in Central NY rust belt city lol and the other fanbase who has no choice to attend games in an overbuilt arena in a small city to lol. Six in one, half dozen in the other I guess. Thats really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If Utica was drawing 5000 or more then I can see that market bragging a little but they cant, they dont have the resources. Albany has room to grow, can grow if the NHL club cares to, but most dont. Albany has what Utica or Bridgeport does not, and it has nothing to do with seats or the numbers of fans, it has more to do with facilties. Albany has NHL quality locker rooms, training facilities, and its location would make it Ranger ideal. There are more Ranger fans in the Northern Suburbs of NYC, up the Hudson Valley region, and lastly in and around the Schenectady, Troy, Saratoga, Glens Falls, and Albany region. You throw a competetive Ranger AHL team in Albany and it would be a lights out opportunity for other markets in New York & New England trying to hold on to the AHL.
I dont bet for one second that Bridgeport just because its on Long Island Sound would make for a better Ranger affiliate, thats New England they either love the Bruins or are those that are holding out hope for a Whaler return to Hartford. As far as Utica goes, they have done a great job with what they have, Robert Esche and Mr. DuRoss are local men who are doing whats right by the fan base for sure. The Rangers there would also be a win for that community and if they are eying the Rangers they really need to work quick because Vancouver is no doubt going AHL west eventually. Bottom line is the AHL is not there for NHL teams to win games at the AHL level no longer, thats the reality. Albany like many other AHL teams are NHL owned and simply provide an extension of the NHL system, for development, and lastly either a source of little income or possibly a healthy tax write off. I find the timing of the retirements of not only Dave Andrews but also Hershey's GM/President of particular interest. I think there will be more shake ups for sure, whether or not Albany ends up shook up or not totally remains to be seen, any speculation should wait until the 15-16 season comes to an end. If Albany ends up having a playoff calibre team for once, I am betting attendance will go up. The Adirondack ECHL franchise may have shot themselves in the foot, its more expensive to see the ECHL in Adirondack then it is to go see an AHL team in Albany.
Capital Bureau area fans will still have plenty of hockey options, I cant think of much else better then being able to see NCAA DI college champs of 2014 Union College who have built a hell of a program there. When they play their rivals from RPI in Albany's arena they get 8,000 or more fans. Heck when UAlbany and Saint Siena plays basketball they get 13,000. When realistically does Bridgeport EVER fill to capacity that arena at Harbor Fields??? The Utica Aud while historic can only be polished up with some paint and upgraded lighting but is extremely limited in terms of what it can offer off the ice. Its great the fans enjoy the small atmosphere, makes for a fun time for sure but eventually the luster from last season will wear down, just as it did for Albany after the 1990s. Utica & Albany or even the likes of Rochester and Hershey are no longer able to be kings of a league that has progressed to what it has. A few seasons of playoffless hockey is what in my opinion the true test of the Comets fanbase resolve. If the Comets maintained the same fans in the ECHL then I would give them the utmost respect, until then I will continue to just chalk it all up the the novelty of a relatively new AHL market and having just come off a banner season. In Albany's third season 1995-1996 they were the defending Calder Cup champs and expected a repeat, their average attendance that season, 6101 fans per game hmmmmmm. Albany has been battle tested, beaten down, Utica fans should reserve comment unless they have endured over 20 years of AHL hockey and only two playoff appearances in a decade and a half lol, then lets see where Utica is at lol. How would Utica fans react if the parent team comes in and does away with the Comets brand and logo, then puts out a product for five years straight with one first round playoff experience??? Ohhh thats right, they benefit from locals who would never do that. Think a little bit, enjoy what you have, but at the same time being speculative prematurely and passing judgement on a market thats due for a break is pretty much a display of ignorance. Hopefully the fans in Utica dont have to suffer what their peers to the east down I-90 have had to, until then they really dont have room to talk lol.
GarbageGoal
Courage
Sundays in the fall are brutal. Plus you had both New York football teams playing their biggest rival, you're not going to get any kind of crowd for that.
Albany has only played two home games this season lol. AHL hockey in Albany is going to take a backseat when the Giants, New Engalnd or Jets are on. Albany sits too close to NYC or New England. I think what also hurts hockey in Albany is that every game starts at 5pm on Saturdays. The local college teams all start at 7pm and the new Glens Falls Thunder ECHL teams all start at 7pm. I asked a colleague who does work up that area (in the sports & entertainment business doing feasability and market research) why they start at 5pm and he said he believes they did that on purpose. Said thats a tactic thats been tried and failed in other sports venues where to increase food revenue they schedule their Saturday games early to squeeze dinner revenue out of every patron. If the games are at 7PM he theorizes many fans or casuals will go eat out between 4 and 5. He said Albany banks on Saturdays obviously being the best draws to squeeze out the food revenue soucres. He said its just a theory but one he happens to agree with, but also stated this tactic has shown a history of negative attendance effect. Albany relies on a balance between hockey fans, casuals, and those looking to just have a night out. Said the hockey core base of that area will flock to whatever teams are winning. He said the NCAA Champs of 2014 Union have pulled alot of fans away from the other products, they only have a 2200 seat arena so fans have to battle for tickets to the Union Dutchmen. Meanwhile if Adirondak's AHL team was playing better then Albany fans would go there. He also told me there are many sports fans in the Albany area who can easily travel to NJ for Giants or Jets games. Down the stretch late season will make or break any improvment in Albany's ability to sustain the AHL. He said if they are playing well and heading to the playoffs Albany's attendance will be told late February to season end.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
That's certainly debatable on biggest rivalry part. For the most part the Jets have been a dumpster fire and either so has NE or NE has been good. I guess that one could slide. I could see the Giants and Eagles being bigger because of the proximity and two obnoxious cities and what not.
Disengage
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2007
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GarbageGoal
Courage
royals119
Registered User
Are we really debating who the Giants and Jets biggest rivals are on a hockey message board?
Anyway - I grew up just outside Albany, as a Giants fan. The Cowboys are the Giants biggest rival as far as fans are concerned. And that was the point - why did no one come out for the A-Devils game on Sunday? Answer is, at least in part, because they were home on their couches watching the Giants-Cowboys.
There are virtually no Eagles fans in the Albany area, but as with everywhere else, there are a number of loud, obnoxious Cowboys fans. Every Giants fan is watching Giants-Cowboys so they can talk $h!^ about that game with their annoying Cowboy Fan co-worker on Monday morning.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Well it was mentioned. Personally they aren't all equal. The Cowboys biggest rival is probably the Redskins. So while the Giants may think its Dallas(perhaps) I definitely don't think Dallas would feel that way. As for new england....man that ones tough. I never really thought they had one until the Brady/Manning era with Indianapolis. Way more intense than anything involving the Jets.
Cowboys fans=Yankees/Lakers fans. They are everywhere and a lot of them are bandwagon with no allegiance to either city and probably have no ties or ever been.
You probably could have started and stopped with just saying Sunday and football. Its a typical Sunday issue throughout minor league hockey.
Cowboys fans=Yankees/Lakers fans. They are everywhere and a lot of them are bandwagon with no allegiance to either city and probably have no ties or ever been.
You probably could have started and stopped with just saying Sunday and football. Its a typical Sunday issue throughout minor league hockey.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Didn't think it was hard to explain that the Jets and Patriots have never really been good at the same time. They have one postseason meeting and that Jet team that beat them really wasn't that good of a team. They had 9 wins and backed into the playoffs. The Patriots had I believe 13 or 14 and the top seed. The years they won their Super Bowls the Jets were a joke. When the Jets had their miracle season in 98 the Patriots stunk. Same with when they won SB 3. As for Giants and Cowboys....that may be the illusion of the NY fans but I wouldn't say its the Cowboys biggest rival anyway. That is Washington. Some old timers would argue Pittsburgh I guess but they haven't had a relevant game in 20 years.
The Steelers-Browns rivalry has been pretty lopsided in recent years, but that doesn't mean that a Youngstown Phantoms game that goes against a Browns-Steelers game won't be sparsely attended (to put it nicely).
You just confirmed what I said. A lot of competition for customers $$ in Albany. What's a div 1 college game cost?? $10-$$12????? Not much else in Utica. Both the comets and UC games are sold out for the most part. Other options would be Hamilton college 10 minutes south or Colgate 30 minutes south. Just not much hockey around other than the high schools.
That's understandable, officials in Albany County met with state leaders and Rangers ownership. They were extremely pleased with the response of the last NHL preseason game in Albany. It was a Wednesday night game tickets were priced from $25.00 to $90.00 and although it is where the NJ Devils AHL team calls home it was organized by the NY Rangers and they were the home team despite playing the Devils in their own AHL team's building. Over 9000 turned out on a Wednesday night to watch a few seasoned NHL vets play alongside AHLers playing in a meaningless tune up. State leadership in based out of Albany NY, they would like nothing more then to keep Ranger business in NYS, and Albany will do what it takes to secure its AHL future. All that nonsense aside look at what Albany offers. Newer building getting set for a 15 to 20 million makeover the next year, NHL quality locker and training rooms, a train ride from Albany puts you underneath MSG at Penn Station in 2.5 hours. The student body at the University at Albany is loaded with 80% from the NYC Metropolitan area alone and that alone is an untapped fan base which currently the Devils organization has yet to even bothered to target. I think Albany wouldn't hesitate at all to see the Devils move to Utica even if it meant waiting a season if they had a solid chance at luring the NY Rangers AHL team to Albany. Wouldn't suprise me to see attendance there rise to 1000 or 2000 more per game. Never mind the talk the building seats 13,000 for hockey, that's nonsense, there simply is no market that size with an arena that big, way overbuilt. hope to get up that way and hit up a Devils game and also a Glens Falls Thunder game as well.
royals119
Registered User
There are a lot of students from the NYC area, but 80% is a large exaggeration. They don't have stats for in-state student home towns on their website, but they do say that 8% of SUNY-A students are from other states, and 5% are from outside the US, so 87% are from NY state. I find it impossible to believe that only 7% of the students are local, or from other parts of the state. Also, a large percentage of those "NYC metro area" students are from Long Island, and are likely to be Islanders fans.
I think every NY AHL team would love to have the Rangers as their farm except Rochester. It would help all the teams out. In Bing the best attended years were the Ranger years. This is Ranger country as I am sure it is Utica, Albany, Syracuse as well.
There were 9000 rangers fans in Albany also because the rags were headed for Europe for a while during MSGs transformation. There weren't many chances to see them.
If I had an AHL franchise I'd place it in Utica. That's a solid operation there.
Hoping for downstate students is like hoping for locusts. They're not all drunk, loud, obnoxious jerks looking to fight, but the fights and arrests that somehow always seem to occur when large number are around are not worth a bump in AHL attendance. That group has already ruined tulip fest, St Patricks Day, the spring Parkfest concert they had in Washington Park for years and probably some other events I've forgotten. Oh yeah a couple neighborhoods in Pine Hills.
If I had an AHL franchise I'd place it in Utica. That's a solid operation there.
Hoping for downstate students is like hoping for locusts. They're not all drunk, loud, obnoxious jerks looking to fight, but the fights and arrests that somehow always seem to occur when large number are around are not worth a bump in AHL attendance. That group has already ruined tulip fest, St Patricks Day, the spring Parkfest concert they had in Washington Park for years and probably some other events I've forgotten. Oh yeah a couple neighborhoods in Pine Hills.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
The one thing I'm struggling with is how the Albany River Rates were able to average 5,000+ per game and sell out the Pepsi Arena at times in the mid-90s? Clearly Albany was no more of a New Jersey Devils market then than it is now.
The horrific years of the early 2000s turned a lot of people off to AHL hockey in Albany. If Albany is competitive and makes the playoffs for three seasons in a row, interest will grow.
I don't think it's about Rangers v. Devils. It's about a lot hockey viewing competition in the area and needing a compelling team to draw interest.
The horrific years of the early 2000s turned a lot of people off to AHL hockey in Albany. If Albany is competitive and makes the playoffs for three seasons in a row, interest will grow.
I don't think it's about Rangers v. Devils. It's about a lot hockey viewing competition in the area and needing a compelling team to draw interest.
royals119
Registered User
You are right there. My wife grew up on Hamilton St, and SUNY students are like a plague.
Some of each. The River Rats were Albany's team, who happened to be affiliated with the Devils, but they did marketing, they didn't push the Devils brand, and it was all new an exciting and a great game day atmosphere.
Under the Devils ownership and brand they haven't done a good job selling the team, and using the Devils name doesn't help. Also the fact that they don't seem to care about the team or the fans turns people off. Winning always helps, but you also need the local management to take advantage of it via marketing, game day experience, etc.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
While I certainly agree that the River Rats had more of a tie to the area than the Devils, I don't think much marketing was done or community outreach back then. Attendance was pretty much remained the same since 2001, hanging in the 3,300 to 3,800 range, and stretching across the existence of the Rats and the Devils.
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=4604
http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/albany-devils-10348.html
I think the Rats managed to become irrelevant with some truly awful showings in the early aughts. People in the area began to discount them, and that reputation has stuck.
While I think the Rangers affiliation would receive an early bump in support, I don't think much would change unless the team gets better.
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