bellringer77
Registered User
- Nov 14, 2017
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If you look at it as a complete sequence of events instead of just the Nielsen signing, then yeah it ranks pretty high up there. I just changed my vote, lol.
lol glad I could be of service
If you look at it as a complete sequence of events instead of just the Nielsen signing, then yeah it ranks pretty high up there. I just changed my vote, lol.
Whatever, man. No one is trashing the guy personally. We’re talking about his worst move as GM. He had plenty of great ones, too. Pro sports are for entertainment.Won't participate further in this thread, I find it stupid and honestly would close it if I didn't feel like that is kind of an abuse of power. Why we need to talk about Hossa over a decade later or parts of our team that aren't even here just to bitch and moan is beyond me. But I guess enjoy another thread this gang, I am out. Those talking about tools you never use, I wish I could actually put a thread on ignore.
What bothered me the most was that it was a move to acquire a player who:
1. Likely had no interest in the Red Wings to begin with
2. Would not have vaulted the team into a contender, and would have further prolonged the rebuild
3. Would have hamstrung the team with a cap hit not commensurate with his play (I also do not believe Stamkos would have taken the same contract to play here, or anywhere else outside of Tampa)
From what I recall, it could have been done if Holland only had used trades.
- Cleary had a 2.8M cap hit - replaced with Tomas Tatar, we could have saved 2.8M - 690K = 2.11M.
- Filppula made 3M - replaced with Jan Mursak would have saved 3M-623K = 2,4M
- Todd Bertuzzi made 1,5M
- 2.11 + 2.4 + 1.5 = 6.01M
- Hossa's cap hit was 5.27M in Chicago
- Bertuzzi scored 16 goals, Filppula scored 16 and Cleary scored 26
- Hossa, young Tatar and Jan Mursak instead of Bertuzzi, Filppula and Cleary - I think we would have been closer to contending
- Maybe we even could have gained some assets for Filppula, who was still young and promising
- We could have kept Franzen AND Hossa, and even given Hossa a higher salery than Chicago did
- Hindsight is 20/20, but many of us said this back in 2009
Pretty obvious that the medical and training staff downplayed injuries too much. As GM, Holland is ultimately responsible for the staff. I know Stevie's been revamping the training staff, not sure if he's replaced any of the team doctors (or maybe they've already been replaced, I dunno)I see a few people say the Weiss move wasn't bad... I think it was horrible. Guy was coming off an injury plagued season before we signed him and expected to be a 50P-60P guy when he was never gonna get the same minutes he did in Florida. Hell, he was not even health going into the season... someone how our medical staff let him play.
And this is where another one of Holland's blunder comes into play... the whole fitness program for the Red Wings organization.
Hossa chose to walk though.
While I agree with you, that this was the move with the biggest impact, I don't think it had Stanley Cup significance. It wasn't Hossa vs. not having Hossa, it was Hossa vs. Franzen, because you cannot sign both of them. Franzen was actually a good playoff performer, from my recollection he was actually their best forward in 2009 and 2010. I don't think upgrading Franzen to Hossa would be deciding factor in winning another cup, especially when thier window actually closed in 2011 after Rafalski retiring and Lidstom basically playing his last great season.
Alright dude, congrats, you're the first to hit the ignore list in my decade long history on HFBoards. Pour one out, you've accomplished the impossible.
You're so obviously not a real fan interested in having a good talk with others and just here to derail literally every thread you poke your head in with these sensational takes you know will force people to hit reply and engage you until everyone gives up because you're not actually interested in honest discourse. Later, nerd.
Marian Hossa: Signing with Blackhawks was 'best decision in my career'Can you post a link where Hossa says he didn’t want to re-sign?
Yep, I remember there was a tweet mentioning Yzerman was kind of shock that the Red Wings strength and conditioning program remained largely unchanged since his playing days.Pretty obvious that the medical and training staff downplayed injuries too much. As GM, Holland is ultimately responsible for the staff. I know Stevie's been revamping the training staff, not sure if he's replaced any of the team doctors (or maybe they've already been replaced, I dunno)
Yep, I remember there was a tweet mentioning Yzerman was kind of shock that the Red Wings strength and conditioning program remained largely unchanged since his playing days.
"My agent, when we tried to decide what is the best opportunity, what is the best way to play, what team has the best chance and also what team has the most potential to be good for a long time, Chicago was the No. 1 choice."This is an article of Hossa saying that in hindsight going to the Hawks was the best decision of his career. In a world where Detroit doesnt offer him a contract, this article is identical to what it is.
"My agent, when we tried to decide what is the best opportunity, what is the best way to play, what team has the best chance and also what team has the most potential to be good for a long time, Chicago was the No. 1 choice."
I really doubt there was ever a reality where Hossa re-signs in Detroit.
I mean they had contract talks. Hossa was just offered more money+term from a team on the upswing with more cap space. Would have been extremely difficult to compete with that.I'm not going to debate with you unless you can show me something that shows Hossa saying that he was offered a contract by Detroit and turned it down, or that he never even entertained the idea of going to Detroit, and not a 1 year deal. My entire original point was that Holland should have signed Hossa long term. I do believe Hossa re-signs here if he is offered a long term contract, however Holland was not going to offer that.
Sorry, but that's fantasy hockey fueled by hindsight.
Tomas Tatar was drafted in 2009, in 2009-10 he was a 0,55 ppg player in AHL as 18 year old. You cannot pencil him into line up. Jan Mursak was not NHL material, especially he was not a NHL center. Basically you want to eliminate the forward depth, center depth, you subtructed 58 goals and added how many? You need Hossa to score 40, which he didn't manage in 2009/10, Mursak and Tatar - at least 10, which sounds not very realistic. And you still didn't replace Filppula properly. Sorry, no Stanley Cup for you.
But even if we assume it works, your calculation is still incorrect. You still have to pay replacements, and in Tatar's case it's not a league minimum. So you have to subtruct from 6 M "available" at least 1 M, realistically 1,2 M. You end up with 4.8 M. Sorry, no Hossa for you.
I’ve always thought of this as fan fiction, I don’t believe that Holland couldn’t have signed hossa and franzen if he made other moves.
Our lack of talent has nothing to do with contracts. How can you be so disconnected? There is zero correlation between Abby's deal and the lack of taleny on this roster. Zero.Yet you go around and around trying to tear down Steve Yzerman for the same shit. Oh, but Yzerman drafted Brett Connolly! And he signed Ryan Callahan to a dogshit contract!
Yes, Ken Holland was a fabulous GM for a very long time and most of his moves, even during the worst of times with the Wings, made logical sense at some level. He's still a good hockey mind. But you can't ignore that he did jack shit to bail out the water on a sinking ship in Detroit and now everything that you complain about with us not having talent and not getting better was directly caused by attaching several boat anchors to the team. We had to wait those out or buy them out because those contracts were so damn bad.