Holland Needs To Go

[Nordic*]

Sidenote.

Detroit **** the bed when they released Filppula, he is amazing in Tampa. At least during the 5-6 games I've seen of them this season.

 

[PullHard]

Sidenote.

Detroit **** the bed when they released Filppula, he is amazing in Tampa. At least during the 5-6 games I've seen of them this season.

This has been said many times, but, he would never look this good playing for Babcock.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Sidenote.

Detroit **** the bed when they released Filppula, he is amazing in Tampa. At least during the 5-6 games I've seen of them this season.

So you have seen 5 or 6 games out of 22 when he is signed for five years, knowing that his numbers in Tampa may not have been replicated here, and are now deciding to put judgement on that move?

 

[aar000n]

Sidenote.

Detroit **** the bed when they released Filppula, he is amazing in Tampa. At least during the 5-6 games I've seen of them this season.

he is now one goal from equaling his last year total of 10G 7 assists. That means in 22 games he didn what he did for Tampa what it took him all year to so ladt year. Yes lock out shortened but still. Filppula **** the bed last year.

 

[ScottyBowman]

The sad thing is that Holland has collected a bunch of trash on this team that nobody wants. Samuellson, Miller, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Quincey, would not get picked up on waivers. This is on top of Tootoo, Emmerton, and Eaves. I can't stand when Ken Daniels says we have a glut of forwards. No, we don't have a glut of forwards, we have a glut of garbage.

 

[Nordic*]

So you have seen 5 or 6 games out of 22 when he is signed for five years, knowing that his numbers in Tampa may not have been replicated here, and are now deciding to put judgement on that move?

Given what we signed instead of him, yes, I can confidently say that Detroit got the far worse player (in Weiss).

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Given what we signed instead of him, yes, I can confidently say that Detroit got the far worse player (in Weiss).

And 17 games into a five year deal, you are prepared to assume that Weiss will continue this pace and not improve?

 

[Nordic*]

And 17 games into a five year deal, you are prepared to assume that Weiss will continue this pace and not improve?

I know the 2-way game we got out of Flip, we will never get that from Weiss.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I know the 2-way game we got out of Flip, we will never get that from Weiss.

The two way game that we got was not worth the contract he got, and Weiss's offensive production and ability to be a second line center has not been proven correct or false as of yet.

Your confidence is incredibly early, and by no means can we honestly say the Wings **** the bed when 95% of each of their contracts haven't even been completed as of yet.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

nordic stats dont lie why dont you go to 2011-2012 and then go back the next 5 years.


They all look the same and 2 way play?

He always out played flip by a ton.

Take aways give aways and scoring.

Flip got him by a couple points in 2011-2012 yet flip has never been consistent no matter what you think.

Weiss was consistent and this year right now is first year flip has ever put up weiss type of numbers in the take away give away department.

Go do corsi anything you will see the truth. I know without checking cause I did eye test and have looked.


Weiss had a hand injury I think that and playing him with some scrubs or players who were not playing hard has really put him into a box so far this year.

Now we have a lot better options for 1st 2nd and 3rd lines. It will all work out.

What will say is weiss might take some time to get his slap shot fully back but the rest of game should come around and he is just better than flip.


I am a tampa and detroit fan 35 years detroit and flip brings your style detroits to tampa so was right choice but say we had played your style for 3 years instead of starting this year? I take weiss.

Flip has honestly been tampa's best player besides stamkos and since stamkos went down.

Yet flip is having what weiss would call an average year in past.

He is vital to tampa for sure but weiss would have been as good if he knew detroits style as well as flip does.


I think flip might put up his best numbers for 2-3 years maybe all 5. He might have grown that much finally but weiss has already been there for 6 years and will get back there.

flips take aways give aways are 8 and 9 2011-2012 and 2010-2011 year before that he was negative more give aways than take aways.

weiss is 13-16-and 36 to the positive. He also in those two years was 70 percent like flip on 5-5 points compared to power play points.

weiss also blocks and hits double to triple what val does.

So if you think Val's two way game is better you need to go research two way play.

 

[Sadekuuro]

So if you think Val's two way game is better you need to go research two way play.

Weiss will improve and give us a lot more than he has so far, but sorry, Val's two way game is better. And it's not particularly close. Poorly kept stats like giveaways and takeaways don't mean much of anything, and there's a lot more to two way play than hits and blocked shots (which are not rigorous either).

 

[Frk It]

he is now one goal from equaling his last year total of 10G 7 assists. That means in 22 games he didn what he did for Tampa what it took him all year to so ladt year. Yes lock out shortened but still. Filppula **** the bed last year.

There's always this little nugget that everyone always likes to forget about and leave out......

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/11/red_wings_valtteri_filppula_su_1.html

 

[InjuredChoker]

no, i'm pretty sure that flip wanted to **** the bed on a biggest contract year of his life.


because.

 

[Goalie guy]

no, i'm pretty sure that flip wanted to **** the bed on a biggest contract year of his life.


because.

Maybe he knew he had a deal in Tampa? and wanted to stick to the big K for picking a coach over his players?? he is not the only player to say they don't like Babs.

 

[Frk It]

no, i'm pretty sure that flip wanted to **** the bed on a biggest contract year of his life.


because.

I have no idea what you are trying to say..

 

[BinCookin]

Filppula has played great.
Good Job him.

Weiss so far has played terrible.
Bad Job so far.


I think we wait till end of season 2 of these deals to REALLY know who won.

Analysis of 1/4 of one season or 1/20th of their contract lengths may be a little premature.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

no, i'm pretty sure that flip wanted to **** the bed on a biggest contract year of his life.


because.

Pretty ridiculous strawman, there.


Either way, Weiss had been playing really well before his injury, just not getting the points. This was also before we had Nyquist in the lineup, Helm full-time, and everyone except for Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Alfredsson was not putting up points.

Give it some time before proclaiming this specific move as a good or bad one.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It also ignores the rumor out there that Filppula was not interested in playing under Babcock anymore.

I think Weiss will look much better once he is back than his rough start. It is too early to freak out one way or the other, but keep in mind there are serious doubts that we ever really had a chance at Filppula, there is a reason he was asking for more from us than he signed for in my opinion. Flip was done playing for our coach.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I have no idea what you are trying to say..

Pretty ridiculous strawman, there.

sorry, thought it was pretty obvious that i wasn't serious.

Maybe he knew he had a deal in Tampa? and wanted to stick to the big K for picking a coach over his players?? he is not the only player to say they don't like Babs.

i find that little far etched considering tampa's situation, vinny buyout etc.

Either way, Weiss had been playing really well before his injury, just not getting the points. This was also before we had Nyquist in the lineup, Helm full-time, and everyone except for Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Alfredsson was not putting up points.

Give it some time before proclaiming this specific move as a good or bad one.

if weiss was playing 'really well' and that is the standard for the duration of the contract, we are absolutely ****ed. seriously.

of all top 6 forwards he has the worst possession numbers. at least had few days ago, didn't check now. that doesn't cut it on a possession team.

and yes, wings are icing right now the worst puck possession team since... forever, but those numbers are relative to the team.

no, i'm not saying he can't improve. or that wings are ****ed. but if he doesn't improve significantly, it is going to be bad.

he was playing nowhere near at the level he should be playing.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Weiss will improve and give us a lot more than he has so far, but sorry, Val's two way game is better. And it's not particularly close. Poorly kept stats like giveaways and takeaways don't mean much of anything, and there's a lot more to two way play than hits and blocked shots (which are not rigorous either).

Ok so explain to me what else is missing in two way play or what I am missing?


If you play similar minutes and one guy leads all of those categories pretty much soundly and another guy has one good year and rest just blah in all categories what am I missing?


What stat or what concept do I not get about hockey that says flip has a better two way game or did have a better two way game in the past?





The only thing I can think of that might be missing is drawing penalties and giving penalties.



I am a person who thinks if you got two guys same numbers of toi 5-5 and power play and pk you can take the

take away give away and blocks and hits together with points goals and assists and you pretty much can see who is better.


So if I am missing something let me know.


Now eye test is flip better at gaining the zone controlling puck setting up carrying puck controlling puck? To me that is debatable and time will tell. I think flip is awesome at that but think weiss is not terrible in any equation.

I also think flip looks better at it this year than he ever has before by tons.

 

[mindfly]

And 17 games into a five year deal, you are prepared to assume that Weiss will continue this pace and not improve?

Weiss strikes me as a mentally weak person who can just strive in small market teams with no pressure, he's in the Horton-mold... He won't be a success here in Detroit.

 

[RayMoonDoh]

Weiss strikes me as a mentally weak person who can just strive in small market teams with no pressure, he's in the Horton-mold... He won't be a success here in Detroit.

What gives you that impression?

 

[Brick Top]

Weiss strikes me as a mentally weak person who can just strive in small market teams with no pressure, he's in the Horton-mold... He won't be a success here in Detroit.

Horton did pretty well in Boston IMO- there's more media pressure there than in Detroit.

 

[SimplySolace]

Weiss strikes me as a mentally weak person who can just strive in small market teams with no pressure, he's in the Horton-mold... He won't be a success here in Detroit.

Glad we have a psychologist here on HF. Oh, and a psychic.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

if weiss was playing 'really well' and that is the standard for the duration of the contract, we are absolutely ****ed. seriously.

If he continues the numbers he has, then yeah. My contention is he will put numbers up on a much more consistent basis because his play does not reflect his current statistics on the team.

of all top 6 forwards he has the worst possession numbers. at least had few days ago, didn't check now. that doesn't cut it on a possession team.

and yes, wings are icing right now the worst puck possession team since... forever, but those numbers are relative to the team.

It's been twenty games and I don't think Weiss has ever played "puck possession" in the NHL. Give him some time.

no, i'm not saying he can't improve. or that wings are ****ed. but if he doesn't improve significantly, it is going to be bad.

he was playing nowhere near at the level he should be playing.

I don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't need to get better. But he will score more.

Of course if you want to stick Dan Cleary with him like tonight then he probably isn't going to do very well.