Holland Needs To Go

[Vladi16]

I know I'll get a lot of hate for this and I'm probably the only one who thinks this but this guy is sooooo overrated it's not even funny. IMO.

Look at the team he inherited- Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Konstantinov (sort of) Shanny etc

IMO, he's not only been lucky with that but even more so with Scotty Bowman being such a legend and the greatest hockey mind in history, then with the low draft luck of Zetterberg and the fact that only we saw Datsyuk because of the circumstances to keep the ride going.

Holland has only rode the coattails of the greatest coach in the history of the game, HOF players he didn't get, luck with 2 premier players and Hakan.

I'm so tired of hearing "Trust Holland, the greatest GM in sports". He the greatest GM at doing nothing but signing overaged players and being too loyal to them. (Yes I like the loyalty part, which makes others want to come here but Sammy, Cleary, Eaves etc? Really???)

Holland has done VERY little for the Wings for the success they've had and I'm tired of him getting credit for it.

Click to read more...

 

[sully6one]

Until we start losing, I'm ok with him. I don't care if we play all 40 year olds, we win, I'm happy.

 

[ZDH]

I'm probably the only one who thinks this

Right....

This opinion is posted ad naseum in every.single.gd.thread

 

[Vladi16]

I will apologize to all Wings fans on here of this has always been said. I will read other threads before I post in the future.

 

[Heaton]

I will apologize to all Wings fans on here of this has always been said. I will read other threads before I post in the future.

As down as I am on Holland, the whole 'he inherited a great team so he doesn't deserve credit' is a lame argument. Plenty of great players have been lucky with situations. Scotty Bowman is the greatest coach ever, he also was fortunate enough to get coaching jobs with the best talent ever.

 

[Vladi16]

As down as I am on Holland, the whole 'he inherited a great team so he doesn't deserve credit' is a lame argument. Plenty of great players have been lucky with situations. Scotty Bowman is the greatest coach ever, he also was fortunate enough to get coaching jobs with the best talent ever.

I 100% agree. But with the Wings, Bowman changes that team of players. He made Yzerman play defense, played Fedorov on d etc. He changed the players he had for the better. Holland, IMHO, hasn't done a whole lot for this team for the better.

 

[Heaton]

I 100% agree. But with the Wings, Bowman changes that team of players. He made Yzerman play defense, played Fedorov on d etc. He changed the players he had for the better. Holland, IMHO, hasn't done a whole lot for this team for the better.

It doesn't matter, they were still going to be great players - obviously Bowman made them better. As for Holland pre 2009, he was undisputed as a major force to this teams success. He hasn't looked great the past few years, but that doesn't erase the job he did keeping this team a top contender.

 

[Vladi16]

It doesn't matter, they were still going to be great players - obviously Bowman made them better. As for Holland pre 2009, he was undisputed as a major force to this teams success. He hasn't looked great the past few years, but that doesn't erase the job he did keeping this team a top contender.

I guess this is what I don't understand. What did Holland do to make this team a contender?

Edit: it does matter because before Scotty, Yzerman was going to only be a great offensive player. Not the great two- way he became and he bought in and the rest did also which made them winners.

 

[Vladi16]

This probably wasn't the greatest point I could make being a newcomer and if I could take it back I would, after seeing people think I'm either trolling or someone else. I guess I took me being mad to finally post but doesn't make me a troll

 

[Fugu]

This probably wasn't the greatest point I could make being a newcomer and if I could take it back I would, after seeing people think I'm either trolling or someone else. I guess I took me being mad to finally post but doesn't make me a troll

They should be a little friendlier to newcomers.


That said, the board has had phases of hating Holland, or Babcock, or both and some don't dislike either one.

If people have something to add to the thread, they will. Don't sweat it.

 

[RayMoonDoh]

This probably wasn't the greatest point I could make being a newcomer and if I could take it back I would, after seeing people think I'm either trolling or someone else. I guess I took me being mad to finally post but doesn't make me a troll

Everyones entitled to their opinions. I only have a problem if they're different from mine-and therefore wrong!

Jk, welcome fellow wings fan

 

[Vladi16]

They should be a little friendlier to newcomers.


That said, the board has had phases of hating Holland, or Babcock, or both and some don't dislike either one.

If people have something to add to the thread, they will. Don't sweat it.

Thank you, Fugu but after the fact I can see their point.

I haven't read a thread here before I sign up. After I sign up I don't come back until I am tired of hearing people on Fb and other forums talk and I come to these forums without reading them and post. There's no hard feelings here at all and I honestly in hindsight realize I was in the wrong doing so. I need to "get my feet wet" and let everyone know my love for the Wings and I'm not trolling. Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sorry for any I offended in the way I handled things.

 

[jaster]

They should be a little friendlier to newcomers.


That said, the board has had phases of hating Holland, or Babcock, or both and some don't dislike either one.

If people have something to add to the thread, they will. Don't sweat it.

Phases? More like eras. Or era. Of which we are in the midst of.

The revisionist history is the best part though, pretty entertaining. Most of Holland's detractors don't do it, they usually admit that he was at least a good GM at one point, but once in a while....

Oh, and welcome, newcomer. May today be your worst day as an active poster on this forum

 

[Detroit Sports*]

He does.

 

[Vladi16]

Everyones entitled to their opinions. I only have a problem if they're different from mine-and therefore wrong!

Jk, welcome fellow wings fan

Haha thank you Townsend. I appreciate that very much.

 

[Syckle78]

This probably wasn't the greatest point I could make being a newcomer and if I could take it back I would, after seeing people think I'm either trolling or someone else. I guess I took me being mad to finally post but doesn't make me a troll

Or it could be the best way to introduce yourself. There are plenty of posters who agree with you. I, myself, am pretty moderate. I think Holland was great at one time but seems to be past his peak. If he stepped down I wouldn't be upset. However, I think the problem is higher than him with the focus on the Tigers and little urgency to win at the ownership level. Kinda get the feeling old Kenny boy is happy to play it safe because his seat is nice and safe.


Anyway welcome to the board, man.

 

[Vladi16]

Or it could be the best way to introduce yourself. There are plenty of posters who agree with you. I, myself, am pretty moderate. I think Holland was great at one time but seems to be past his peak. If he stepped down I wouldn't be upset. However, I think the problem is higher than him with the focus on the Tigers and little urgency to win at the ownership level. Kinda get the feeling old Kenny boy is happy to play it safe because his seat is nice and safe.


Anyway welcome to the board, man.

Maybe that's a better way to put it. He feels safe because of the Wings success. Believe me, I live and die Red Wings. Me and my friend taped EVERY single game during the mid to late 80's. There was more than one time we cancelled dates to stay home and watch them lol We effin loved Probie and Kocur. I love and die Wings so much it's not even funny so this wasn't a troll post against the Wings. I was out of order for it being my first post, Indo agree, but that love for the Wings is there man. Thank you

 

[Detroit Sports*]

Smid went to the flames, we could have gotten in on that...

 

[Vladi16]

Phases? More like eras. Or era. Of which we are in the midst of.

The revisionist history is the best part though, pretty entertaining. Most of Holland's detractors don't do it, they usually admit that he was at least a good GM at one point, but once in a while....

Oh, and welcome, newcomer. May today be your worst day as an active poster on this forum

Jaster, yep, I'm the "once in a while..." When it comes to Holland but I guess I do deserve the flak I'm getting for thinking that. I honestly thought I'd be the only one on these forums that thought that so I'm actually kind of ok hearing I'm not alone lol

And thank you for the welcome my kind sir.

 

[FlashyG]

Bowman was an outstanding coach but sub par GM, so its hard to credit him with the success of the Wings over guys like Holland, Nill and Develanno.

Holland has had a rough couple years but his legacy is well earned by the work he's done in the past couple decades.

People don't give him the credit he deserves for his work as a scout, as the head of scouting and his tenure as GM.

He was responsible for drafting Lidstrom and Konstantinov, before Hakan was even employed by the Wings, he (and Develanno) stopped Bowman from trading Yzerman for Yashin. He's been part of a group that has excelled in the draft despite not having any early picks. A lot of that credit lies with Nill, but you can't blame Holland for the bad without giving credit for the good.

He has also made several great trades acquiring, Larionov, Chelios, Hasek, Schneider and Stuart.

He hasn't been anywhere near as good the past few years, but the Wings are still winning despite not being dominant anymore, and the prospect pool is the best it has been possibly in the history of the franchise.

In the end campaigning against Holland is like campaigning against the sun...its futile as he's as entrenched in his position as anyone can be.

 

[Fugu]

Bowman was an outstanding coach but sub par GM, so its hard to credit him with the success of the Wings over guys like Holland, Nill and Develanno.

Holland has had a rough couple years but his legacy is well earned by the work he's done in the past couple decades.

People don't give him the credit he deserves for his work as a scout, as the head of scouting and his tenure as GM.

He was responsible for drafting Lidstrom and Konstantinov, before Hakan was even employed by the Wings, he (and Develanno) stopped Bowman from trading Yzerman for Yashin. He's been part of a group that has excelled in the draft despite not having any early picks. A lot of that credit lies with Nill, but you can't blame Holland for the bad without giving credit for the good.

He has also made several great trades acquiring, Larionov, Chelios, Hasek, Schneider and Stuart.

He hasn't been anywhere near as good the past few years, but the Wings are still winning despite not being dominant anymore, and the prospect pool is the best it has been possibly in the history of the franchise.

In the end campaigning against Holland is like campaigning against the sun...its futile as he's as entrenched in his position as anyone can be.

I think the bold touches on something important.

I think the Wings were at their best when there was the right chemistry in the braintrust-- Kenny as GM, Nill as assistant, Bowman as coach and then adviser, Hakan as head of Euro scouting, Devellano before he got too old, and---- Mr I. The passion was there and he was the one who green-lighted that "let's take a big risk" attitude.

 

[Vladi16]

Bowman was an outstanding coach but sub par GM, so its hard to credit him with the success of the Wings over guys like Holland, Nill and Develanno.

Holland has had a rough couple years but his legacy is well earned by the work he's done in the past couple decades.

People don't give him the credit he deserves for his work as a scout, as the head of scouting and his tenure as GM.

He was responsible for drafting Lidstrom and Konstantinov, before Hakan was even employed by the Wings, he (and Develanno) stopped Bowman from trading Yzerman for Yashin. He's been part of a group that has excelled in the draft despite not having any early picks. A lot of that credit lies with Nill, but you can't blame Holland for the bad without giving credit for the good.

He has also made several great trades acquiring, Larionov, Chelios, Hasek, Schneider and Stuart.

He hasn't been anywhere near as good the past few years, but the Wings are still winning despite not being dominant anymore, and the prospect pool is the best it has been possibly in the history of the franchise.

In the end campaigning against Holland is like campaigning against the sun...its futile as he's as entrenched in his position as anyone can be.

Holland was responsible for drafting Lidstrom and Konstaninov?

Edit: btw, no the fans were responsible for Yzerman not getting traded after we all hear about it. I guess, if you want to say it could still have happened, you're right, but they knew better after they heard the fans when it leaked out.

 

[Fugu]

Holland was a scout back then, iirc, but he wasn't responsible for that particular draft. If memory serves, wasn't Jim Lites around then, but JD still being the GM? Murray took over in 1990-91.

 

[Vladi16]

Holland was a scout back then, iirc, but he wasn't responsible for that particular draft. If memory serves, wasn't Jim Lites around then, but JD still being the GM? Murray took over in 1990-91.

It's been so long I can't be sure, which is why I asked him because he may know. Holland has been with the Wings for at least 25-30 years I'm thinking so maybe he's right.

Iirc, Holland was a scout for the Wings but it was only in Western Canada. (I think.... Been so long) Not in Sweden or Russia I do know that part for sure.

Edit: Maybe he means Holland was the head of scouts that saw them because before Holland became GM he was head of scouts for the Wings I think. I don't know if it's NA or European etc been so long now.

Fugu- as far as Lites, I know little about him other than his being with the Wings in the 80's and Klima bit only because other posters over the years said so

 

[Detroit Sports*]

Only way Holland can ''fix'' this is by gutting the farm. And that is precisely his go to formula in the championship years.We have too many fringe NHLers and most of them have untradeable contracts. The Red Wings are just the name right now and it is very depressing.