Hockey Cards

[The Kingslayer]

I may finally look into grading some of my cards (never really bothered with it as I don't collect for money). Mainly I'd be looking at my 50's to early 80's stuff. I know COMC offers grading service that I have read can be a savings (and sometimes even result in better grading). They do BGS though and my preference is PSA. Any other outfits folks are aware of that offer similar but with PSA and any experience going this route versus doing it yourself? I won't be doing it until late this year, early next year as I know it will take a bunch of time I don't have right now.

Old cards like that I would send to PSA. PSA has been pretty good for turn around time. I know a few guys who received their cards back around the average time. BGS is the one holding cards hostage. Sent cards in February and haven't received them yet.

 

[blankall]

I may finally look into grading some of my cards (never really bothered with it as I don't collect for money). Mainly I'd be looking at my 50's to early 80's stuff. I know COMC offers grading service that I have read can be a savings (and sometimes even result in better grading). They do BGS though and my preference is PSA. Any other outfits folks are aware of that offer similar but with PSA and any experience going this route versus doing it yourself? I won't be doing it until late this year, early next year as I know it will take a bunch of time I don't have right now.

For vintage hockey, PSA is the only choice.

Beckett has BVG (Beckett Vintage Grading, not BGS - Beckett Grading Services) for anything older than 1981. the problem is they don't take into account the "rough edges" that are very common on Canadian made hockey cards. You could have a perfectly preserved hockey card but have Beckett downgrade due to the edges being "r0ugh", even though all Canadian cards are like that.

 

[Rorschach]

For vintage hockey, PSA is the only choice.

Beckett has BVG (Beckett Vintage Grading, not BGS - Beckett Grading Services) for anything older than 1981. the problem is they don't take into account the "rough edges" that are very common on Canadian made hockey cards. You could have a perfectly preserved hockey card but have Beckett downgrade due to the edges being "r0ugh", even though all Canadian cards are like that.

For any vintage cards, and I'm calling any old pulp-made Topps or OPC card even into the early 90s, PSA is it. This includes all sports and even non-sport.

BGS is good for modern cards, which I consider as any premium stock card starting with 1989 Upper Deck.

PSA's "good enough" grading system plus their set registry is perfect for the imperfections of older cards. BGS's scrutiny of four different criteria of "perfection" is great for premium card stock and cutting manufacturing.

The PSA era of cards, the collectors tend to focus on player PCs or sets (team sets or entire 600+ card sets). Since all of the cards were mass produced, it's possible for collectors to assemble sets. Often times, due to the set registry, single cards that are not important but are of an important player will be encapsulated in PSA.

The BGS era of cards focuses on important modern-era singles that were made using modern techniques (high quality white stock, glossy surfaces, high-precision cutting) where the cards were meant to be kept by serious collectors on day one (no flipping cards in trading card games, no bike spokes, no gum or wax in the packaging) so many high quality copies exist. Also, there are very low serial-numbered copies of cards (below 100 copies...often 25 or less copies).

 

[Muffin]

"Glad" im not the only one. Did you send it in yourself or through one of the stores here in Edmonton?

Sent it in through West's in Edmonton. I'm probably going with PSA in the future, BGS 9.5 can't compete with PSA 10 in value. Just not worth it to send to BGS unless you get a 10.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Sent it in through West's in Edmonton. I'm probably going with PSA in the future, BGS 9.5 can't compete with PSA 10 in value. Just not worth it to send to BGS unless you get a 10.

Haha yah I been harassing Moe and Jim every month. Now im just waiting for one of them to tell me when the cards arrive.

 

[ted2019]

For vintage hockey, PSA is the only choice.

Beckett has BVG (Beckett Vintage Grading, not BGS - Beckett Grading Services) for anything older than 1981. the problem is they don't take into account the "rough edges" that are very common on Canadian made hockey cards. You could have a perfectly preserved hockey card but have Beckett downgrade due to the edges being "r0ugh", even though all Canadian cards are like that.

That's why I like Beckett over PSA as they DO take in consideration that Edges are part of the cards look. I've seen PSA 10's in sports with edges that look like they were cut with a hacksaw.

 

[Boxscore]

BGS is the one holding cards hostage. Sent cards in February and haven't received them yet.

You guys are nuts using BGS. It's PSA or SGC.

 

[ted2019]

Sent it in through West's in Edmonton. I'm probably going with PSA in the future, BGS 9.5 can't compete with PSA 10 in value. Just not worth it to send to BGS unless you get a 10.

So you only collect cards for value then? You don't collect for the shear fun of collecting?

 

[Muffin]

So you only collect cards for value then? You don't collect for the shear fun of collecting?

No? But why would I send to BGS when they take 7 months (and counting) for 30 days service and they have less value than PSA. Not to mention BGS raised their prices as well.

I have my investment cards and my PC cards. Most of my grading is for my investment cards, McDavid YG, Ovechkin YG etc.

 

[Boxscore]

So you only collect cards for value then? You don't collect for the shear fun of collecting?

Ted, if you're just collecting for the fun--why would you slab your cards? Have them accessible or in albums or mag screw downs so you can feel and touch. But, I agree--if you're grading--you absolutely need to go PSA or SGC. SGC is hot right now... and their capsules are beautiful.

 

[Muffin]

I probably have around 10k worth of cards at BGS right now, really need them back soon. I guess on the bright side they've done nothing but go up in value.

 

[Rorschach]

You guys are nuts using BGS. It's PSA or SGC.

I have an Auston Mathews YG on UD ePack. I'm transferring it to COMC and then asking them to send it to BGS for grading.

PSA top grade is PSA 10. Price-wise for a Young Guns like Auston Matthews, a BGS 9.5 is above $250 (US) and a PSA 10 is $350+.
Last BGS 10 sold on eBay went for $1300, about almost a grand more than PSA 10. There are no BGS 10 Black for Matthews YGs recently sold. It wouldn't surprise me if the first one available for sale this year would net close to $5000, more than 10x a PSA 10.

A McDavid YG BGS 10 recently sold for $4500+. A McDavid YG BGS 10 Black sold for nearly $13,000. PSA 10 goes for a little under $1200.

In hockey, the number one card that is graded, by far, is Young Guns. And by far, these are sent to be graded to BGS, if a submitter can deal with the submission time. (BGS 10 Black is a BGS graded card that not only garnered a 10 grade overall, every single sub-grade is also 10, for a "perfect" card. )

If it's me, the chance to hit a BGS 10 or even a Black, I'd rather submit to BGS any new card, such as Young Guns, that looks good to the eye. In new hockey collecting, we don't really consider PSA as a serious company. PSA is really the company when we get our BGS submissions back as 9.5, we re-sub to PSA and hope for a PSA 10.

The only way PSA really catches on, and it could, is if people started to collect Young Guns sets for set registry and want all PSA 10s. That's both a realistic course and a viable collecting path. However, knowing how hockey collectors are wired, they would much rather collect certain players and just have a decent, raw collection of ungraded Young Guns in a set and not care about PSA 10 collections.

Something about O Pee Chee and it's crappy cutting/production seems to keep the vintage collectors from caring as much about grading and PSA. Grading seems to be all about Young Guns and SPA Future Watches instead. PSA seems to be made more for Topps than OPC or UD.

 

[Muffin]

I have an Auston Mathews YG on UD ePack. I'm transferring it to COMC and then asking them to send it to BGS for grading.

PSA top grade is PSA 10. Price-wise for a Young Guns like Auston Matthews, a BGS 9.5 is above $250 (US) and a PSA 10 is $350+.
Last BGS 10 sold on eBay went for $1300, about almost a grand more than PSA 10. There are no BGS 10 Black for Matthews YGs recently sold. It wouldn't surprise me if the first one available for sale this year would net close to $5000, more than 10x a PSA 10.

A McDavid YG BGS 10 recently sold for $4500+. A McDavid YG BGS 10 Black sold for nearly $13,000. PSA 10 goes for a little under $1200.

In hockey, the number one card that is graded, by far, is Young Guns. And by far, these are sent to be graded to BGS, if a submitter can deal with the submission time. (BGS 10 Black is a BGS graded card that not only garnered a 10 grade overall, every single sub-grade is also 10, for a "perfect" card. )

If it's me, the chance to hit a BGS 10 or even a Black, I'd rather submit to BGS any new card, such as Young Guns, that looks good to the eye. In new hockey collecting, we don't really consider PSA as a serious company. PSA is really the company when we get our BGS submissions back as 9.5, we re-sub to PSA and hope for a PSA 10.

The only way PSA really catches on, and it could, is if people started to collect Young Guns sets for set registry and want all PSA 10s. That's both a realistic course and a viable collecting path. However, knowing how hockey collectors are wired, they would much rather collect certain players and just have a decent, raw collection of ungraded Young Guns in a set and not care about PSA 10 collections.

Something about O Pee Chee and it's crappy cutting/production seems to keep the vintage collectors from caring as much about grading and PSA. Grading seems to be all about Young Guns and SPA Future Watches instead. PSA seems to be made more for Topps than OPC or UD.

That's IF you get BGS 10, they're so rare you're basically just hoping the grader is having a good day. PSA 10 are way more common than BGS 10. PSA 10s are equivalence to a BGS 9.5 but sells for more.

Another thing I hate about BGS is they grade the auto, to me an auto is either authentic or not, I've had a MacKinnon true gem FWA come back with a 9 auto that killed the value of the card.

 

[blankall]

That's why I like Beckett over PSA as they DO take in consideration that Edges are part of the cards look. I've seen PSA 10's in sports with edges that look like they were cut with a hacksaw.

It depends on the card. Part of the charm of an old OPC card is the rough edges.

As for modern cards PSA will take edges into account. They take into account the technology used at the time the card was created. So pre 1990, many companies used wires to cut the cards, which actually aren't that different than a hacksaw. The wires would leave a jagged edge.

 

[blankall]

I have an Auston Mathews YG on UD ePack. I'm transferring it to COMC and then asking them to send it to BGS for grading.

PSA top grade is PSA 10. Price-wise for a Young Guns like Auston Matthews, a BGS 9.5 is above $250 (US) and a PSA 10 is $350+.
Last BGS 10 sold on eBay went for $1300, about almost a grand more than PSA 10. There are no BGS 10 Black for Matthews YGs recently sold. It wouldn't surprise me if the first one available for sale this year would net close to $5000, more than 10x a PSA 10.

A McDavid YG BGS 10 recently sold for $4500+. A McDavid YG BGS 10 Black sold for nearly $13,000. PSA 10 goes for a little under $1200.

In hockey, the number one card that is graded, by far, is Young Guns. And by far, these are sent to be graded to BGS, if a submitter can deal with the submission time. (BGS 10 Black is a BGS graded card that not only garnered a 10 grade overall, every single sub-grade is also 10, for a "perfect" card. )

If it's me, the chance to hit a BGS 10 or even a Black, I'd rather submit to BGS any new card, such as Young Guns, that looks good to the eye. In new hockey collecting, we don't really consider PSA as a serious company. PSA is really the company when we get our BGS submissions back as 9.5, we re-sub to PSA and hope for a PSA 10.

The only way PSA really catches on, and it could, is if people started to collect Young Guns sets for set registry and want all PSA 10s. That's both a realistic course and a viable collecting path. However, knowing how hockey collectors are wired, they would much rather collect certain players and just have a decent, raw collection of ungraded Young Guns in a set and not care about PSA 10 collections.

Something about O Pee Chee and it's crappy cutting/production seems to keep the vintage collectors from caring as much about grading and PSA. Grading seems to be all about Young Guns and SPA Future Watches instead. PSA seems to be made more for Topps than OPC or UD.

I used to submit to BGS for the same reasons as you, the chance to hit a 10 or black label.

Now, however, BGS has increased their prices so much, it no longer makes sense to use them for bulk submissions of lower end Young Guns. I just sent $210 cards to PSA. Worked out to about $10-11/card after all the fees and shipping. Doing the same thing with BGS would have been about $25/card. Plus the PSAs 10s are now selling for substantially more than the BGS 9.5s. PSA is really catching on right now.

 

[blankall]

Ted, if you're just collecting for the fun--why would you slab your cards? Have them accessible or in albums or mag screw downs so you can feel and touch. But, I agree--if you're grading--you absolutely need to go PSA or SGC. SGC is hot right now... and their capsules are beautiful.

I think SGC is a great service, but their slabs are hideous...That black foam? BGS has by far the best looking slabs.

While SGC is huge in other sports, it hasn't caught on in hockey. I really wish it would. Hockey desperately needs another grading company.

I also like putting my PC cards into slabs. To preserve them and because they look great. I don't really need to touch them. In fact, the idea of touching a card outside of a case gives me anxiety.

 

[Rorschach]

I used to submit to BGS for the same reasons as you, the chance to hit a 10 or black label.

Now, however, BGS has increased their prices so much, it no longer makes sense to use them for bulk submissions of lower end Young Guns. I just sent $210 cards to PSA. Worked out to about $10-11/card after all the fees and shipping. Doing the same thing with BGS would have been about $25/card. Plus the PSAs 10s are now selling for substantially more than the BGS 9.5s. PSA is really catching on right now.

Agree on that. In the past BGS 9.5 goes for the same as PSA 10. But in my Auston Matthews YG example, PSA 10 is going clearly for $100 more. Still, if I'm submitting my key cards, I'm going with BGS. My $50 YGs can go to PSA and my $250+ cards can go to BGS.

 

[The Kingslayer]

So you only collect cards for value then? You don't collect for the shear fun of collecting?

I personally collect for both. Huge Avs PC and several investment cards. The Avs PC has been going since I was 13.

 

[ted2019]

The entire card market is basically for "investors" these days and scam artists. PWCC on Ebay is a egg sucking dog. Here's a scam of his.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1412096

Here's a thread about Ebay sellers PWCC & Probstein ( which includes PSA)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1352880&highlight=trimmed+psa
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1299227
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1292993

 

[blankall]

The entire card market is basically for "investors" these days and scam artists. PWCC on Ebay is a egg sucking dog. Here's a scam of his.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1412096

Here's a thread about Ebay sellers PWCC & Probstein ( which includes PSA)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1352880&highlight=trimmed+psa
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1299227
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1292993

If PWCC is indeed shill bidding. That's one thing. If they're just selling cards that have been altered and then regraded, I'm not sure how they're supposed to even know about that. The fault there is 100% the fault of the graders. PWCC isn't a grading company themselves and has no more expertise than you or me.

Even with the grading companies, how are they supposed to know if every card has been altered. Sometimes you can't tell without looking at the original. They don't keep scans of the originals. Even if they did, they wouldn't be expected to compare the card against every one that's ever been graded. Some of these people altering the cards are using high end methods like lasers to cut cards.

Even then, what some people considered altered is different than others. If you get dirt on a card and then wipe it off, is that altered? If you wipe off a glue stain is that altered?

 

[Boxscore]

I think SGC is a great service, but their slabs are hideous...That black foam?

Their new slabs are black plastic with clear covering--and their labels are crisp with big numbers. BEAUTIFUL!!

 

[ted2019]

If PWCC is indeed shill bidding. That's one thing. If they're just selling cards that have been altered and then regraded, I'm not sure how they're supposed to even know about that. The fault there is 100% the fault of the graders. PWCC isn't a grading company themselves and has no more expertise than you or me.

Even with the grading companies, how are they supposed to know if every card has been altered. Sometimes you can't tell without looking at the original. They don't keep scans of the originals. Even if they did, they wouldn't be expected to compare the card against every one that's ever been graded. Some of these people altering the cards are using high end methods like lasers to cut cards.

Even then, what some people considered altered is different than others. If you get dirt on a card and then wipe it off, is that altered? If you wipe off a glue stain is that altered?

People are saying that PWCC is the one altering and trimming the cards.

 

[blankall]

People are saying that PWCC is the one altering and trimming the cards.

No they aren't. The lawsuit, which looks unsubstantiated, is stating that PWCC is selling card they know have been altered, not that they altered them themselves.

PWCC doesn't sell their own card. They are a consignment service. They don't have possession of them, to get them, crack them, alter them, and send them back in.

Even then, the lawsuit may be dismissed:

PSA Parent Company Moves to Dismiss Lawsuit

 

[Boxscore]

is stating that PWCC is selling card they know have been altered, not that they altered them themselves.

Correct.

 

[ted2019]

No they aren't. The lawsuit, which looks unsubstantiated, is stating that PWCC is selling card they know have been altered, not that they altered them themselves.

PWCC doesn't sell their own card. They are a consignment service. They don't have possession of them, to get them, crack them, alter them, and send them back in.

Even then, the lawsuit may be dismissed:

PSA Parent Company Moves to Dismiss Lawsuit

I have heard otherwise about them breaking cases, altering them and re-submitting and getting a higher grade.