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U18: Hlinka Gretzky Cup

WarriorofTime

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
29,661
17,996
Sweden up 4-0 in the third period, the Czechs hanging on for dear life.

Not too often you see a triangle of W-L results between three teams in a tournament where every game was a blowout.
 
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kyle44

Registered User
Jan 7, 2007
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
You referred to Catton's resume by saying this. If not resume (stats, points, accolades), what is paper supposed to refer to?
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Saying that a player has a better resume or accolades on paper doesn't necessarily take anything away from the other. Let's just look at this objectively:

15 year old season - Celebrini makes Shattuck U-18 Prep over Catton.
16 year old season - Celebrini leads the USHL in scoring, is named Rookie of the Year and Player of the Year, and ties the record for most points by a Canadian player at the U-18; Catton is 2nd on his WHL team in scoring (on an admittedly bad team), 4th in scoring at the U-17 and has 11 less points than Celebrini at the U-18s.
17 year old season - Celebrini is shortlisted for the Canadian U-20 team over Catton.

As an outside observer, I don't know how one could disagree that Celebrini has a more impressive resume on paper. This doesn't mean that Catton's is bad; just that Celerbini's has been better.

Pavel Buchnevich said:
FWIW, I always see it brought up that Celebrini led the USHL in points and all that as some unimpeachable accolade, but I think watching some of his Steel games the conclusion would be a little different. He was very good, but there were a few too many games I thought he was outplayed by his line-mate Perron (who was a third rounder). I wouldn't exactly suggest he was dominant. It's very impressive to be the best player on the best team, but it also does tend to inflate your stats (and play) when you have such a good supporting cast. So I think this talking point isn't as impressive as it sounds, although I'm not saying he wasn't very good in his U-17 yea
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I watched plenty of his USHL games and I disagree with this assessment. He blew away the 16-year old totals of Fantilli and Svechnikov, some of the more recent high-end, non-NTDP players. Its hardly insignificant. I certainly don't believe Catton would perform similarly in the same circumstances.

Pavel Buchnevich said:
I think that when you consider it on a value-based system, Catton is the best. If you can't figure out what that means, I think that you have to evaluate players for the draft based on their value. Being a center is more valuable than a winger, being a defenseman is more valuable than being a winger, being undersized loses you value, being a weak skater loses you value. It's all based on building the ideal (what usually ends up as a generational) prospect (Crosby, McDavid). Obviously no one ends up being perfect, but I think when you consider different attributes, comparing Catton to Eiserman, Eiserman should have to be that much better because he plays the less valuable position. Eiserman also has some defensive deficits. Celebrini compared to Catton, I personally think Celebrini lacks the top-end offensive tools. He's very good, but I'd say his offensive profile is more Nico Hischier (with more shooting, less passing) than one of the better 1OA centers of recent times.
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Celebrini and Catton are both centers so that's a wash. Celebrini is also bigger than Catton. And if Celebrini is lacking top-end offensive tools, then so is Catton. Celebrini has a better shot and is a better skater. He’s also a good playmaker and is better defensively. I don't see the Hischier comparison at all from an offensive perspective. I live in Halifax and am a season ticket holder and Celebrini looked more dynamic to me at 16 than Hischier did at 17. The way Celebrini skates and explodes up ice with the puck on his stick reminds me of MacKinnon at the same age.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Catton hater by any stretch. As I've said, I'm a Canadian and want all Canadian prospects to succeed. I just can't get behind the argument he's better than Celebrini, and that opinion seems to be shared by many the scouting community at this time. See Hockey Canada decision to promote Celebrini over Catton, as well as preliminary lists from Hockey Prospect (Celebrini 1 Catton 8), Pronman (Celebrini 1 Catton 13 in mock), Wheeler (Celebrini 1 Catton 6), Peters (Celebrini 1 Catton 8), Ellis (Celebrini 1 Catton 5), etc.
 
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Czechboy

Czechboy

Cole is the real MVP!
Apr 15, 2018
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An ugly goal from point! I've never cheered a 4-1 goal so loudly lmao
 
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