Hlinka Gretzky Cup 2019

[Yakushev72]

You said 8-10 times more...so you were wrong about that too (and add in outdoor rinks too and Canada has less than 3 times more, and Russia has more than the US!) Countries ranked by number of ice hockey rinks 2017/18 | Statista

I didn't trust that you presented accurate figures, and it turns out you didn't


P.S. The Russian government spends over half a billion dollars a year propping up the KHL SKA (KHL) earned $124M in 2018-2019 season sure seems like Russia's spending a lot of money on hockey to me

Outdoor rinks? Seriously? And even with frozen noses dripping in the middle of January, you didn't bother to focus on the fact that Canada, with less than a quarter of the population of Russia, maintains
twice as many outdoor rinks. I feel bad about it, because I think you've gotten yourself into a corner, from which you can't escape without embarrassment, trying to argue that building 3,300 indoor rinks is really somehow cheaper than building 560, and funding the development of 637,000 players is somehow cheaper than funding 110,000. And like seemingly everyone who read your post, I have no clue about the relevance of SKA profits to the development of youth players in Khabarovsk? ???

 

[jj cale]

In doing research, sometimes everything isn't neatly laid out for you. According to IIHF stats about member organizations, Canada has roughly 24% of the population of Russia (35 million in comparison to 142 million Russians), and yet Canada has six times as many indoor rinks (3,300 in comparison with Russia's 560), and six times as many players (637,000 as compared to Russia's 110,000). Despite being much smaller than Russia population-wise, Canada is spending more than six times more than Russia just on building rinks and hiring coaches, referees, maintenance workers and all kinds of others to make playing hockey possible. If you just look at it from the standpoint of investment, at least in international tournaments, all that spending isn't consistently paying off in wins.

Consistent enough.Last 2 olympics ended up in gold for Canada and one where we ate your team alive in a grudge match and the other where we waltzed to victory right on your home soil in your hosted olympic games and totally spoiled your party.

Money well spent IMO. I bet Russian Hockey fans like you would have gladly spent more to have gotten the result we did.



Perhaps more money spent on hockey infrastructure and less on athletic criminality that got Russia so heavily sanctioned and earned them International athletic outcast status and you may have gotten that result.

 

[Nino33]

Outdoor rinks? Seriously? And even with frozen noses dripping in the middle of January, you didn't bother to focus on the fact that Canada, with less than a quarter of the population of Russia, maintains
twice as many outdoor rinks. I feel bad about it, because I think you've gotten yourself into a corner, from which you can't escape without embarrassment, trying to argue that building 3,300 indoor rinks is really somehow cheaper than building 560, and funding the development of 637,000 players is somehow cheaper than funding 110,000. And like seemingly everyone who read your post, I have no clue about the relevance of SKA profits to the development of youth players in Khabarovsk? ???

My only point was a you provide falsehoods as facts

I don't care about number of rinks AT ALL beyond they didn't support your 8-10 times claim. And if the Russian government is spending half a bullion a year on the KHL, you needed to show how the governments of Canada and the US both directly spend 4-5 billion a year on hockey

 

[Czechboy]

Last 2 olympics ended up in gold for Canada

Are you sure?

Russia or whatever they were called won the last one.

If you're referring to Pro Olympics than that is now going back to 2010. 9 years ago now.

Don't get me wrong... Canada is clearly on top of the best on best world now as they're just winning everything. Last 2 Pro Olympics and the last World Cup as well.

 

[Yakushev72]

Consistent enough.Last 2 olympics ended up in gold for Canada and one where we ate your team alive in a grudge match and the other where we waltzed to victory right on your home soil in your hosted olympic games and totally spoiled your party.

Money well spent IMO. I bet Russian Hockey fans like you would have gladly spent more to have gotten the result we did.



Perhaps more money spent on hockey infrastructure and less on athletic criminality that got Russia so heavily sanctioned and earned them International athletic outcast status and you may have gotten that result.

I would be interested to know, based on posts I see on HF Boards, how reading classes are structured in the Canadian educational system? Better reading would show you that, in the last 2 Olympic Games, teams from Canada and Russia won Gold Medals, respectively. About 90% of Russia's best players were in the NHL in 2018, and couldn't play, and yet Russia managed to win a Gold Medal. Hockey Canada, which functions as rest room attendants for the NHL, had decided to no longer insist on the NHL making its stars available for the Olympic Games, preferring instead to rest their laurels on ancient history legacy from days long ago dead! "Don't take any risks today, and focus on yesterdays accomplishment forever," is the new motto of Hockey Canada.

Since 1998, when Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby regularly played in the Olympics, Canada and Russia are tied, in a dead heat, in Olympic competition. They only played each other twice from 1998-2014. Russia won the first encounter in Torino, 2-0, thereby eliminating Canada from medal contention (NHL stars were actually crying at the blue line after the game), and on Canadian ice in Vancouver, Canada won a strong victory 7-3. Overall, the teams were 1-1, with overall goals for and against of 7-5. Hardly dominant statistics based on the money Canadian taxpayers pour into hockey. The Canadian team in Pyongyeang was never in contention for Gold!

During the period of the 1990's and 2000's, when the Russian people were experiencing the deprivation of a deep economic depression, and not even a kopeck could be spared for frivolities like hockey, there was no other hockey power in the world to compete with Canada, no question. Canada stood by themselves, and to be honest, there is no evidence that any other country actually liked hockey enough to try to compete with Canada in what is strictly a rich man's game. But now, as I said in earlier posts in this thread, Russia is making incremental progress, and at the youth level, Canada is falling back into the pack. If Russia sucks as much as you say, isn't it a legitimate Canadian disgrace that, after all the massive funding that Canada unleashed to create hockey champions, at the end of the day, they could do no better than tie lowly Russia at the WJC over the last 10 years? Would investing all that money in Curling be a smarter investment?

 

[Nino33]

Since 1998, when Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby regularly played in the Olympics, Canada and Russia are tied, in a dead heat, in Olympic competition.

Actually in the era "when Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby regularly played in the Olympics" Canada has 3 Golds, Russia 0

 

[Nino33]

But now, as I said in earlier posts in this thread, Russia is making incremental progress, and at the youth level, Canada is falling back into the pack. If Russia sucks as much as you say, isn't it a legitimate Canadian disgrace that, after all the massive funding that Canada unleashed to create hockey champions, at the end of the day, they could do no better than tie lowly Russia at the WJC over the last 10 years? Would investing all that money in Curling be a smarter investment?

Well you're right about the "lowly Russia"

Golds in the WJC the last 10 years - Finland 3, Canada 2, USA 2, Sweden 1, Russia 1
Golds in the Hlinka Greztky Cup the last 10 years - Canada 6, Czech Republic 1, Russia 1

 

[Yakushev72]

Well you're right about the "lowly Russia"

Golds in the WJC the last 10 years - Finland 3, Canada 2, USA 2, Sweden 1, Russia 1
Golds in the Hlinka Greztky Cup the last 10 years - Canada 6, Czech Republic 1, Russia 1

For the other countries, these stats represent great success, especially for Finland. For Canada, this represents failure, and slipping into mediocrity (yes, I know, way back in 2002, Canada won the Gold Medal in the Olympics!). In the decade from 1990-99, Canada won 7 of 10 WJC's, compared to 2010-2019, where Canada slipped all the way back to 2 of 10 Golds. That is a huge drop-off in success! Whether the world is just getting that much better, or Canada that much worse, is the subject of a good debate. And the WJC has become a Canadian financial enterprise, with 7 of the last 10 either played in Canada (5) or in border towns of the United States where the WJC draws an average of 10 American fans per game. Still, Canada is slipping further behind, while the United States and possibly Russia may be edging toward eventual dominance.

What is the weird fetish that Canadians have for the summer beach tournament, Gretzky Hlinka. European teams make it a point of precluding the best players from playing in that tournament. To Canadians, the GretzkyHlinka is far more prestigious and important than the Olympic Games and the Stanley Cup. Like, they don't play the GretzkyHlinka and Stanley Cup at the same time in Canada because no one would watch the Stanley Cup. Very weird!

 

[jj cale]

Are you sure?

Russia or whatever they were called won the last one.

If you're referring to Pro Olympics than that is now going back to 2010. 9 years ago now.

Don't get me wrong... Canada is clearly on top of the best on best world now as they're just winning everything. Last 2 Pro Olympics and the last World Cup as well.

The last 2 that actually meant something yes............Canada won.

So yes, I am quite sure.

 

[jj cale]

I would be interested to know, based on posts I see on HF Boards, how reading classes are structured in the Canadian educational system? Better reading would show you that, in the last 2 Olympic Games, teams from Canada and Russia won Gold Medals, respectively. About 90% of Russia's best players were in the NHL in 2018, and couldn't play, and yet Russia managed to win a Gold Medal. Hockey Canada, which functions as rest room attendants for the NHL, had decided to no longer insist on the NHL making its stars available for the Olympic Games, preferring instead to rest their laurels on ancient history legacy from days long ago dead! "Don't take any risks today, and focus on yesterdays accomplishment forever," is the new motto of Hockey Canada.

Since 1998, when Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby regularly played in the Olympics, Canada and Russia are tied, in a dead heat, in Olympic competition. They only played each other twice from 1998-2014. Russia won the first encounter in Torino, 2-0, thereby eliminating Canada from medal contention (NHL stars were actually crying at the blue line after the game), and on Canadian ice in Vancouver, Canada won a strong victory 7-3. Overall, the teams were 1-1, with overall goals for and against of 7-5. Hardly dominant statistics based on the money Canadian taxpayers pour into hockey. The Canadian team in Pyongyeang was never in contention for Gold!




During the period of the 1990's and 2000's, when the Russian people were experiencing the deprivation of a deep economic depression, and not even a kopeck could be spared for frivolities like hockey, there was no other hockey power in the world to compete with Canada, no question. Canada stood by themselves, and to be honest, there is no evidence that any other country actually liked hockey enough to try to compete with Canada in what is strictly a rich man's game. But now, as I said in earlier posts in this thread, Russia is making incremental progress, and at the youth level, Canada is falling back into the pack. If Russia sucks as much as you say, isn't it a legitimate Canadian disgrace that, after all the massive funding that Canada unleashed to create hockey champions, at the end of the day, they could do no better than tie lowly Russia at the WJC over the last 10 years? Would investing all that money in Curling be a smarter investment?

Like I said to czech boy, the last two olympic gold in hockey that actually mattered.

The last olympic hockey gold I don't even count , but I understand why you do, because a watered down olympics is all your team can hope to win these days.

The rest of what you wrote is just senseless drivel.

 

[jj cale]

Actually in the era "when Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby regularly played in the Olympics" Canada has 3 Golds, Russia 0

But Canada and Russia have met twice and they split their games!!

In yaks logic that is what counts...............not golds. That is the sort of spin he always engages in.

 

[Nino33]

For the other countries, these stats represent great success, especially for Finland. For Canada, this represents failure, and slipping into mediocrity (yes, I know, way back in 2002, Canada won the Gold Medal in the Olympics!).

And "way back" in 2010 too. And "way back" in 2014.

And both while playing against the best players in the world; the USSR only did this once "way back" in 1981, while Russia has never done it

What is the weird fetish that Canadians have for the summer beach tournament, Gretzky Hlinka. European teams make it a point of precluding the best players from playing in that tournament. To Canadians, the GretzkyHlinka is far more prestigious and important than the Olympic Games and the Stanley Cup. Like, they don't play the GretzkyHlinka and Stanley Cup at the same time in Canada because no one would watch the Stanley Cup. Very weird!

I have no idea what you're talking about (I've never watched a single second of it; never heard of it outside this forum)

You can't provide any evidence that Canadians find it more prestigious than the Stanley Cup or the Olympics, it's just another example of your fantasy thinking/false statements

 

[Nino33]

But Canada and Russia have met twice and they split their games!!

In yaks logic that is what counts...............not golds. That is the sort of spin he always engages in.

It's so bizarre what he posts; it's like he's a "false flag" posting things to make Russians/Russian hockey look bad

 

[jj cale]

It's so bizarre what he posts; it's like he's a "false flag" posting things to make Russians/Russian hockey look bad

He has just taken a dislike and rivalry with us too personal and this is what you get from him all the time.

 

[Gold Standard]

He has just taken a dislike and rivalry with us too personal and this is what you get from him all the time.

I think you are better off not even engaging on all the nonsense. on to bigger and better things. like the idea of a Canada-USA Summit Series in 2022. That's the only hockey that matters or will matter for the next decade at least.

 

[Yakushev72]

He has just taken a dislike and rivalry with us too personal and this is what you get from him all the time.

I am only suggesting that Russia may be at the early steps of being on the rise, and that Canada is in the early steps of decline - coming back to the pack from the 1990's and early 2000 decades, when they were more or less without competition in a world that really doesn't give a sh*t about hockey. There is more competition now, and there are 4 countries that have shown enough interest to compete - Sweden, Finland, the USA, and Russia. These countries are on the rise, and Canada really dominates no one anymore - not like the old days. I'm not saying Canada can't or won't win, just that their chances are no better than the 4 other countries I mentioned. Hockey is a rich man's sport, so I look for the USA to assume the mantle of domination in the future.

 

[FireBird71]

Well you're right about the "lowly Russia"

Golds in the WJC the last 10 years - Finland 3, Canada 2, USA 2, Sweden 1, Russia 1
Golds in the Hlinka Greztky Cup the last 10 years - Canada 6, Czech Republic 1, Russia 1

USA has won 3

 

[Nino33]

USA has won 3

Oops! You're right of course; thanks for the correction