Hindsight is 20/20, were these the right decisions?

[Gary Nylund]

Pretty sure they got those 2 picks from San Jose.

I know that but once we got them though, they were ours. The idea that we could waste them because they "weren't ours" is nonsense.

 

[ToMaLe]

Pretty sure they got those 2 picks from San Jose.

And when we did it then became OURS!

 

[shortfuze]

how can we trade the picks if they were not ours? lmao what nonsense, unreal!

Does it really need to be explained? The 2 picks that were traded came from San Jose I believe. Thy were 2 free picks. Don’t be so damn technical.

 

[shortfuze]

I know that but once we got them though, they were ours. The idea that we could waste them because they "weren't ours" is nonsense.

But they weren’t wasted. It was extra picks to trade for guys like pleks and Boyle.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If they re-sign Plekanec does it make it better?
I can't imagine anyone thinking trading for Plekanec was going "all in"?

No because Plekanec isn't a difference maker. Bleeding picks for replaceable 4th line centers is stupid, spending for premium pieces like McDonagh makes sense if the timing is right. The trick is to build up your asset base to the point that a big buy doesn't hurt you long-term.

The one 2nd doesn't look bad now but it trickles down over time. How much would it cost to replace Dermott right now if we spent that 2nd on a rental? 1st++? 6+ mil contract for Alzner?

 

[shortfuze]

And when we did it then became OURS!

Don’t be so damn technical. They were 2 extra picks. That were used on 2 needed players.

 

[ULF_55]

Those are valid points and TB also had a much more realistic chance than us at winning the cup this year, that's the main reason I totally agree with what they did.

You can't spend assets every and stay relevant for long, that's why timing is everything. If it was up to me, I would have sold off expiring assets, concentrated on stacking the cupboards and developing the kids who are our future and waited at least one more year, probably two more before spending on the here and now. And then yeah, if we looked like we were ready I'd have no problem with spending big.

I was OK with Boyle though, making the playoffs was very important IMO, that was a 2nd round pick well spent IMHO.

I didn't like the Boyle deal ... however it did provide the experience to umm umm repeat the process ...

I know the argument about getting experience in the playoffs helps in subsequent years.

I think what helps more is having good players ... and sometimes you can get them in the 2nd. round of the draft.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They weren’t even the leafs 2 round picks. So it wasn’t wasting them. Second off. They picked up 2 good veteran players that helped the young kids grow and learn from. Especially come playoff time. It was a pick last year and this year. 2 picks out of at least 14. More or less. It’s not earth shattering and it’s not bad asset management when you trade off 2 picks out of a possible how many...

But they weren’t wasted. It was extra picks to trade for guys like pleks and Boyle.

Might want to read your original post again, pay special attention to the bolded part.

And yes, once we traded for them, they were our picks.

 

[shortfuze]

No because Plekanec isn't a difference maker. Bleeding picks for replaceable 4th line centers is stupid, spending for premium pieces like McDonagh makes sense if the timing is right. The trick is to build up your asset base to the point that a big buy doesn't hurt you long-term.

The one 2nd doesn't look bad now but it trickles down over time. How much would it cost to replace Dermott right now if we spent that 2nd on a rental? 1st++? 6+ mil contract for Alzner?

He doesn’t have to be a difference maker. He could have been a really big influence in the dressing room with the young guys. Not to mention if one of the centres got hurt they would have been screwed in the playoffs. There’s more to hockey then just what happens on ice.

 

[shortfuze]

Might want to read your original post again, pay special attention to the bolded part.

And yes, once we traded for them, they were our picks.

Where in that second post did I say they weren’t? You might want to take your own advice chief.

 

[ACC1224]

No because Plekanec isn't a difference maker. Bleeding picks for replaceable 4th line centers is stupid, spending for premium pieces like McDonagh makes sense if the timing is right. The trick is to build up your asset base to the point that a big buy doesn't hurt you long-term.

The one 2nd doesn't look bad now but it trickles down over time. How much would it cost to replace Dermott right now if we spent that 2nd on a rental? 1st++? 6+ mil contract for Alzner?

Good news is they already have a Dermott, no need to replace him. This really is a non issue.

You need depth in the playoffs. He wouldn't have been my choice but they needed to add a C.
Where they went wrong is with Fehr, IMO.

 

[ToMaLe]

Does it really need to be explained? The 2 picks that were traded came from San Jose I believe. Thy were 2 free picks. Don’t be so damn technical.

I know how we got them and where they came from, dont need any explaining from you. And they were not free picks, we traded players to get those picks. So now that you get them, I take it the best thing to do is waste them? Dermott was a second round pick, Grundstrom was a second round pick in recent drafts by Hunter, would you trade them for a forth line center that is argueably better then what we had, for 25+ games?

 

[Nithoniniel]

This is a situation with many layers.

* It was a failure that we didn't rectify our fourth line center situation in two tries.
* Therefor it made some sense to fill that hole, so it won't become a problem for us.
* Even so, I'm not a fan of having to spend two 2nds to do it.

Second round picks are a market inefficiency. For a team that can draft, they are basically as valuable as any non-top 10 1sts. If you can draft, the value you can get for them in trades is less than that of the prospects you can bring in.

As such, they should preferably not be traded. Unless you suck at drafting, in which case you have a bigger problem.

 

[shortfuze]

I know how we got them and where they came from, dont need any explaining from you. And they were not free picks, we traded players to get those picks. So now that you get them, I take it the best thing to do is waste them ? Dermott was a second round pick, Grundstrom was a second round pick in recent drafts, would you trade them for a forth line center that is argueably better then what we had for 25+ games?

They weren’t wasted. They picked up 2 good players for a playoff run. Brought veteran leadership and experience.

 

[IBeL34f]

He doesn’t have to be a difference maker. He could have been a really big influence in the dressing room with the young guys. Not to mention if one of the centres got hurt they would have been screwed in the playoffs. There’s more to hockey then just what happens on ice.

We did lose Kadri for 3 games, and I think it would be pretty fair to say that, without Plekanec, we don't make it to Game 7.

He was a difference maker.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I didn't like the Boyle deal ... however it did provide the experience to umm umm repeat the process ...

I know the argument about getting experience in the playoffs helps in subsequent years.

I think what helps more is having good players ... and sometimes you can get them in the 2nd. round of the draft.

LOL yeah, I've had similar thoughts. And I mostly agree with you, I just think this was a special case because it had been so long since we made the playoffs in a full 82 game season. And yeah you could say it didn't help us and maybe you're right. But then again, you don't have the benefit of hindsight when making this type of decisions and we did almost best Boston so ... and it was only 1 2nd rounder and we picked a number of those in other deals so in the big picture, I think it was OK, just OK.

 

[shortfuze]

We did lose Kadri for 3 games, and I think it would be pretty fair to say that, without Plekanec, we don't make it to Game 7.

He was a difference maker.

Even better

 

[Gary Nylund]

Where in that second post did I say they weren’t? You might want to take your own advice chief.

This is from your original post:

They weren’t even the leafs 2 round picks. So it wasn’t wasting them.

This is very flawed thinking .. chief.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Does it really need to be explained? The 2 picks that were traded came from San Jose I believe. Thy were 2 free picks. Don’t be so damn technical.

We paid for those picks so how are they free?

Just stop.

 

[Gallagbi]

This is a situation with many layers.

* It was a failure that we didn't rectify our fourth line center situation in two tries.
* Therefor it made some sense to fill that hole, so it won't become a problem for us.
* Even so, I'm not a fan of having to spend two 2nds to do it.

Second round picks are a market inefficiency. For a team that can draft, they are basically as valuable as any non-top 10 1sts. If you can draft, the value you can get for them in trades is less than that of the prospects you can bring in.

As such, they should preferably not be traded. Unless you suck at drafting, in which case you have a bigger problem.

We may have that bigger problem. I do think they picked up some 3rd liners to "overslot" them as well. Pleks was fine on our 3rd line and that's where Boyle spent most of his career. Its worth noting we didn't just pick up career 4th liners for that price.

 

[ToMaLe]

They weren’t wasted. They picked up 2 good players for a playoff run. Brought veteran leadership and experience.

We needed leadership and experience? Then why did we sign Hainsey and Marleau in the off season? Wasted a 2nd rounder.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He doesn’t have to be a difference maker. He could have been a really big influence in the dressing room with the young guys. Not to mention if one of the centres got hurt they would have been screwed in the playoffs. There’s more to hockey then just what happens on ice.

If they had such bad center depth that one injury would have screwed them, that's an issue they should have addressed before the season started. If the young guys need a rental to give them confidence or whatever, that's an issue that should have been addressed before the season started.

Bandaid fixes at the highest price point of the season will sink your team through attrition if you keep doing it every year without a strong enough asset pool.

 

[IBeL34f]

While I certainly agree that, outside of the 7 the League gives you each year, there is no such thing as a truly "free" draft pick, it strikes me as humourous (in regards to this particular discussion) that the 2017 and 2018 2nd-Rounders we have from San Jose were acquired in exchange for Roman Polak, who we then later re-signed. Those are about as close to "free" picks as you can get.

 

[shortfuze]

This is from your original post:

They weren’t even the leafs 2 round picks. So it wasn’t wasting them.

This is very flawed thinking .. chief.

What is it that you aren’t understanding? The 2 picks weren’t originally ours. But a couple people around here want to be so technical that we owned them, So yes via trade we owned them. Toronto didn’t trade any of their original picks in either of those trades(could be wrong). But let me ask you again cause you keep trying point something out from my original post. Where in my other posts (because you keep trying to show me my other posts)did I say they didn’t belong to Toronto?

 

[shortfuze]

We needed leadership and experience? Then why did we sign Hainsey and Marleau in the off season? Wasted a 2nd rounder.

Cause 2 guys is enough on a team?