Proposal: High-End Winger to Islanders

[ThreeLeftSkates]

My offer was Tatar for a first and two prospects who aren't too hot ATM. You countered with thats essentialy two first and a prospect ? How ? None of the prospect listed are worth a 1st, at best a 2nd and thats probably pushing it. Fact is, you are not getting a top 6 forward for a 2nd and a B prospect. Unless its at the deadline or something.



He's 28, lol... 28 YEARS OLD

He still has a year on his contract left so he's certainly not a rental and he's been getting better and better. Stop being cheapstakes and try and be objective a bit, in fact, every one on the Habs board said it was an underpayment for Tatar, guess that makes it a pretty fair offer.

At that price, you keep him and enjoy his upward trajectory! BTW, its cheapskates,

 

[YP44]

He has shown flashes of brilliance and looks like a surefire top 6 forward in time, but defensively hes still struggling. If he gets top 6 minutes the rest of the season i think he puts up ~25 goals.

I wouldnt be surprised if Wahlstrom goes back to the AHL, and comes up for good later in the season.

Ideally the isles still add a winger that can play with Barzal now, even a guy like Zucker or Toffoli could go a long way.

Well Toffoli definitely should be in play IMO. If LA can get a 2nd and a b-level prospect for him I would be content.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Unfortunately, Lou's awful cap management has made taking on a slightly bad contract even impossible for us.

I've always thought if we wanted a top line player, it would cost us Dobson. I was hoping for Dobson+ for Laine this offseason.

Lou has been here for a year, he is not responsible for our cap situation.

 

[The Real JT]

At that price, you keep him and enjoy his upward trajectory! BTW, its cheapskates,

I think he meant cheap steaks.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

As far as high-end wingers (Top 6 material):

Kessel was traded for garbage
Haula was traded for garbage
JT Miller was traded for a first (and garbage)
Hayes was traded for a first (and garbage)
Johannson returned a 2nd
Nyquist returned a 2nd
Skinner was traded for garbage

Price isn't as steep as most posters on this board will make it seem but the common thread behind these trades are draft picks or being done at the deadline.

Now isn't the time to look for that type of winger...should've been done last trade deadline, prior to the draft and definitely before the season started.

Outside of Kessel you didn't even list any elite players.

OP stated they can't get players to sign so obviously we can assume they need an elite winger with term. Probably on the younger side as they aren't a true contender so yes the price of say a Laine would be astronomical.

Being realistic as they won't shop prospects like Dobson mean they have to target someone more in line with the list you posted though.

 

[steveat]

Outside of Kessel you didn't even list any elite players.

OP stated they can't get players to sign so obviously we can assume they need an elite winger with term. Probably on the younger side as they aren't a true contender so yes the price of say a Laine would be astronomical.

Being realistic as they won't shop prospects like Dobson mean they have to target someone more in line with the list you posted though.

I was thinking more very good than elite. The only way to get an elite is if they requested for a trade or they are UFA...or the team just doesn't want them anymore (locker room cancer).

Laine would be a dream to land, but not realistic. I don't think we have the pieces to get Laine anyway..one of dobson or wahlstrom + I would think. The only thing we could do is Leddy + Mayfield (super team friendly contract) + Bode Wilde + first + Salary Dump/Little's contract. I figure since Jets are having this blueline issue, we can help quite a bit.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

My offer was Tatar for a first and two prospects who aren't too hot ATM. You countered with thats essentialy two first and a prospect ? How ? None of the prospect listed are worth a 1st, at best a 2nd and thats probably pushing it. Fact is, you are not getting a top 6 forward for a 2nd and a B prospect. Unless its at the deadline or something.

Fair enough. Personally think he's worth about a 2nd and a B prospect. Maybe at the deadline he returns a first and some type of B or C prospect.

He's 28, lol... 28 YEARS OLD

He still has a year on his contract left so he's certainly not a rental and he's been getting better and better. Stop being cheapstakes and try and be objective a bit, in fact, every one on the Habs board said it was an underpayment for Tatar, guess that makes it a pretty fair offer.

And when his contract expires he'll be 30! 30 Years old (and looking for hi $ and term)! Simply not worth trading a first for that type of return. There will be plenty of teams that'll throw that in the mix at the TDL this year or next. Islanders shouldn't be one of those teams.

Outside of Kessel you didn't even list any elite players.

OP stated they can't get players to sign so obviously we can assume they need an elite winger with term. Probably on the younger side as they aren't a true contender so yes the price of say a Laine would be astronomical.

Being realistic as they won't shop prospects like Dobson mean they have to target someone more in line with the list you posted though.

My bad. I looked at the high-end in the OP's title (which to me means top 6 winger) and he clearly put elite in the first sentence.

Agreed, if you're going to get someone truly elite, even if they're forcing their way out of a team due to attitude or cap issues the price would have to start with Dobson +.

I'm a build from the net type of fan which is why I don't think Pulock, Toews, Dobson or Wilde should be on the table.

 

[GOilers88]

Not gonna lie, I laughed pretty hard at this one.


So OP wants a high end 1st line winger. But wont make literally any piece of value available. Doesn't even want to include Beauvillier or a 1st round pick.


You wouldn't even get a 3rd line winger with the pieces made available. It's literally nothing more than replacement type players made available.

Beauvillier and 1st's are very clearly listed there, and Im pretty sure Leddy could net you a 3rd line winger.

Obviously the OP doesn't nab you an elite first liner, but holy f***ing overexaggeration Batman.

 

[Drake1588]

Several middling pieces added together does not equal a high-end piece, OP. Five nickels won't net you a quarter.

High-end pieces are exponentially more valuable than middling pieces, chiefly because every team is loaded with middling pieces floating around their systems, occupying the lower end of their NHL depth charts, and percolating/stagnating in their AHL and junior cupboards.

The way that you cast it, your team's top players are off the table, the team's leading prospects are off the table, and the team's first rounders are off the table. That's not going to cut it if you are going fishing for high-end players in exchange. Your assets would net comparable return from other teams.

 

[Mrb1p]

Fair enough. Personally think he's worth about a 2nd and a B prospect. Maybe at the deadline he returns a first and some type of B or C prospect.



And when his contract expires he'll be 30! 30 Years old (and looking for hi $ and term)! Simply not worth trading a first for that type of return. There will be plenty of teams that'll throw that in the mix at the TDL this year or next. Islanders shouldn't be one of those teams.


My bad. I looked at the high-end in the OP's title (which to me means top 6 winger) and he clearly put elite in the first sentence.

Agreed, if you're going to get someone truly elite, even if they're forcing their way out of a team due to attitude or cap issues the price would have to start with Dobson +.

I'm a build from the net type of fan which is why I don't think Pulock, Toews, Dobson or Wilde should be on the table.

Thats his worth though, if you want something else you'll need to give even more, or youll get a middle 6 winger like Byron

 

[drw02]

He's 28, lol... 28 YEARS OLD

He still has a year on his contract left so he's certainly not a rental and he's been getting better and better. Stop being cheapstakes and try and be objective a bit, in fact, every one on the Habs board said it was an underpayment for Tatar, guess that makes it a pretty fair offer.

He’ll be 29 in a month and believe it or not that is getting up there in today’s nhl. He’s not exactly a guy who takes great care of himself either

 

[Mrb1p]

He’ll be 29 in a month and believe it or not that is getting up there in today’s nhl. He’s not exactly a guy who takes great care of himself either

How do you know that he doesn't take care of himself?

Also, 29 means you have about 4 more years of prime, like chill with the declining asset.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

As far as high-end wingers (Top 6 material):

Kessel was traded for garbage
Haula was traded for garbage
JT Miller was traded for a first (and garbage)
Hayes was traded for a first (and garbage)
Johannson returned a 2nd
Nyquist returned a 2nd
Skinner was traded for garbage

Price isn't as steep as most posters on this board will make it seem but the common thread behind these trades are draft picks or being done at the deadline.

Now isn't the time to look for that type of winger...should've been done last trade deadline, prior to the draft and definitely before the season started.

You said Skinner was traded for garbage but listed 2nds for other players.

Skinner returned a 2+3+6 and Cliff Pu (who is a garbage prospect). That 2nd turned out to be a top 40 pick. And Skinner was an impending UFA.

But yeah if he didn't have a NMC he would have went for a lot more. Skinner is a high end goal scoring LW1 and an elite 5v5 goal scorer. Dude has 45 goals his last 91 games. That is an elite winger.

 

[Masked Superstar]

Kapanen for Mayfield

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

It was on ice workouts.... you think I am going to watch someone lift weights?

Ah, okay. One workout you didn't like, huh?

Guess we can officially label him a bust

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Five nickels won't net you a quarter.

I agree with the point you're making, but I am not sure you know how currency works.

 

[Jeti]

Perreault for a RHD prospect? Not elite by any means, but you also don't seem to want the Isles to give up anything

 

[greasysnapper]

People are laughing at OP but it depends on the situation and market.

We've seen high end wingers go for very little. We've seen Skinner go for Pu, 2nd, 3rd, 6th. Zuccarello went for a 2nd and 3rd.

Look, if you're the Islanders, and you don't want to give up a lot, the best chance you've got is to shed cap and hope disgruntled/struggling high end wingers don't have you on a no trade list. With how little cap space is available, I think we're primed to see some bargains at the trade deadline just because of the cap situation with so many teams that are in the hunt. Colorado, Anaheim, and Montreal will be in the drivers seat come TDL.

 

[voxel]

Slim pickings for the forward UFA crop from non contenders

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021

 

[SCMURRAY]

Toffoli for a 2nd and Bellows?? He can play both side, right hand shot. Would be 2nd line RW and let Bailey or Beau rotate top 6 minutes. Pushes Komarov down to the 4th line or press box

 

[Hockey Stick]

You may as well try to sign Jagr or Iginla if you're only offering those pieces

 

[RationalExpectations]

Fair enough. Personally think he's worth about a 2nd and a B prospect. Maybe at the deadline he returns a first and some type of B or C prospect.



And when his contract expires he'll be 30! 30 Years old (and looking for hi $ and term)! Simply not worth trading a first for that type of return. There will be plenty of teams that'll throw that in the mix at the TDL this year or next. Islanders shouldn't be one of those teams.
.

So you never move 1st draft picks to get a top 6 winger if you want to get the cup now ? If you are in win-now mode then of you course you trade your 1st if it can be the difference between losing and winning this specific year. See Tatar trade to Vegas, Hayes to WPG...

I agree with you on the point the Islanders should not do it right now because (from my POV) the team is too weak overall (but you have a great coach so you never know...) and one additional scorer won't move the needle.

This aside, I do not believe that the top scorers will move but among top 6 winger which should be available at a reasonable price (around the value of a 1st+), I believe Zucker would be a great solution for the Isles, but MIN seems reluctant to start a rebuild.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

So you never move 1st draft picks to get a top 6 winger if you want to get the cup now ? If you are in win-now mode then of you course you trade your 1st if it can be the difference between losing and winning this specific year. See Tatar trade to Vegas, Hayes to WPG...

Islanders only trade 1st rounders in expansion drafts to ensure a player they don't intend to keep long-term isn't taken in the short-term and to ensure that their 3rd goalie that was so important for a couple of years does get traded at the expansion draft. See Calvin de Haan and JF Gigeure

I agree with you on the point the Islanders should not do it right now because (from my POV) the team is too weak overall (but you have a great coach so you never know...) and one additional scorer won't move the needle.

It would have to be a trade for a legitimate 40g scorer. As we know, those trades are never made because why would a team give up that asset?

This aside, I do not believe that the top scorers will move but among top 6 winger which should be available at a reasonable price (around the value of a 1st+), I believe Zucker would be a great solution for the Isles, but MIN seems reluctant to start a rebuild.

Yeah, Zucker would be a very good target.

My team is pretty much screwed as far as acquiring an elite 1st line winger. Those aren't readily available, we have a specific need and the players we'd love to move aren't pieces that would acquire a 1st liner unless we were to take back even more salary in the form of baggage. That's pretty much any team in the NHL's problem in acquiring an elite 1st liner/1st pairing though...

 

[steveat]

Kapanen for Mayfield

I like this one. Both have not reached their potential yet...both are on pretty good contracts.

I like Kap's stats..he throws checks, he can score. Mayfield is a great skater and an RHD.

 

[steveat]

Perreault for a RHD prospect? Not elite by any means, but you also don't seem to want the Isles to give up anything

This is something I'd look into..entertain..maybe mull over, but I would not know where to put him. He's a good third liner..seems that if you give him more minutes, his production doesn't really work.

What I'm getting at is that we have far too many bottom 6ers - to the point where all of our bottom 6 could be injured and we have enough depth to fill them 2 times over.