Proposal: High-End Winger to Islanders

[bernmeister]

Unfortunately, Lou's awful cap management has made taking on a slightly bad contract even impossible for us.

I've always thought if we wanted a top line player, it would cost us Dobson. I was hoping for Dobson+ for Laine this offseason.

Yeah, Dobs is likely gonna be involved.

Setting aside that NY-NY rarely if ever trades w/ea other, Rangers do not have precise fits (breadman, Zib) available. League wide, I don't see too many stud Ws, complete w/scoring prowess, being offered.

I think Rangers can top the above offer w/expiring Kreider at half and Buch for Dobson + cap dump expiring Matt Martin, something like that.

This would be a gamble for Islanders, that best case scenario Kreider = a dominant presence often enough AND you can extend him, plus Buch shows the scoring touch he did end of last year. That said, chemistry is a fragile thing. Could be lights lightning in a bottle that totally works, or could be epic fail.

Rangers would add a former 1st who would be exp draft exempt, I think.

I don't expect either team to go there, just sayin if they did, that's what I expect.

If Wild continue to have probs, Zuc is a good short term option.

 

[WangMustGo]

Yeah, Dobs is likely gonna be involved.

Setting aside that NY-NY rarely if ever trades w/ea other, Rangers do not have precise fits (breadman, Zib) available. League wide, I don't see too many stud Ws, complete w/scoring prowess, being offered.

I think Rangers can top the above offer w/expiring Kreider at half and Buch for Dobson + cap dump expiring Matt Martin, something like that.

This would be a gamble for Islanders, that best case scenario Kreider = a dominant presence often enough AND you can extend him, plus Buch shows the scoring touch he did end of last year. That said, chemistry is a fragile thing. Could be lights lightning in a bottle that totally works, or could be epic fail.

Rangers would add a former 1st who would be exp draft exempt, I think.

I don't expect either team to go there, just sayin if they did, that's what I expect.

If Wild continue to have probs, Zuc is a good short term option.

1. The isles and rangers are not making any major trades.
2. Isles will absolutely not give up Dobson for ufas.

 

[Kamiccolo]

It's interesting but if Beauvillier is even a little bit better than last year Kapanen isn't enough of an upgrade. They're both somewhat smallish and speedy wingers with 25g potential, suited for 2nd line duty.

I don't know enough about Beau but I don't think the Leafs bite.. Kapanen is probably the Leafs best PKer and that would leave a massive hole unless Beau is also very good.

 

[Mrb1p]

The "gaining value" is debatable. He's got a year past this at 4.8 and then is going to need a new contract (which he is probably going to shoot for the moon during FA).

His play on the ice sure warrants the value going up.

 

[BleedBlue14]

As far as high-end wingers (Top 6 material):

Kessel was traded for garbage
Haula was traded for garbage
JT Miller was traded for a first (and garbage)
Hayes was traded for a first (and garbage)
Johannson returned a 2nd
Nyquist returned a 2nd
Skinner was traded for garbage

Price isn't as steep as most posters on this board will make it seem but the common thread behind these trades are draft picks or being done at the deadline.

Now isn't the time to look for that type of winger...should've been done last trade deadline, prior to the draft and definitely before the season started.

While I agree that you’re gonna have to wait til closer to the deadline. Most of those guys were traded out of reasons in which they sort of fell out of favor with the team or the team needed the cap now.

the likely hood of this happening pre New Years is very slim.

However, with what OP put out there I could see a middle 6 guy being straight swapped for Leddy.

 

[Tatanka]

What's the best winger that we can make from this then?

Kyle Okposo

 

[SI90]

Hoffman would look good with Barzal. He’s a UFA
So price could be tricky but I’d love him on the isles. Don’t see FLA so quick to pick him up.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Not "high end", but Donato for Ho-sang?

 

[AndreRoy]

It won’t happen this year but the Lightning will be looking to move Killorn in the summer. He’s a solid two-way player who is strong defensively and on the PK and is pretty much a lock to score 40 points almost no matter what line you put him on or what linemates you play him with. He’s definitely more of a middle six forward than a top six guy on a good team, but you’ll have a hard time doing much better with the pieces you’re offering, he’s played effectively on our top line in the past, and he’ll be cheap to acquire.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

I don't know enough about Beau but I don't think the Leafs bite.. Kapanen is probably the Leafs best PKer and that would leave a massive hole unless Beau is also very good.

Yeah, this is where I would think the edge is to the Isles as Kapanen's a better pk'er than Beau (though Beau's game is suited for it) so I could understand why Toronto wouldn't think the return warranted enough to trade KK. Not like they'd be saving money anyway as KK is signed for longer

His play on the ice sure warrants the value going up.

No team is going to trade 2 1sts for a player that's going to test FA in a year or two. One first, sure. Two firsts, absolutely not.

I like Tatar. I'd really like him if he was 25 with multiple years left in the deal. To me, then his value would be closer to two firsts...but at 30 at the end of this deal for a guy that will clearly want to be in the 7+ per year for multiple years is too much risk to trade multiple firsts for.

We have enough bad contracts for players over 30.

Unfortunately we are a franchise that has to draft well since we're not a premiere destination and are capped out with bad contracts.

Last year was a blessing as the team had a wonderful season but long-term the franchise would've been better served with draft picks acquired at the deadline. Now we're not in the range to get a McDavid or Matthews when the draft rolls around and not enough talent to get to the Cup (or finals in the east for that matter).

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

While I agree that you’re gonna have to wait til closer to the deadline. Most of those guys were traded out of reasons in which they sort of fell out of favor with the team or the team needed the cap now.

the likely hood of this happening pre New Years is very slim.

However, with what OP put out there I could see a middle 6 guy being straight swapped for Leddy.

Agree with all of this.

Hoffman would look good with Barzal. He’s a UFA
So price could be tricky but I’d love him on the isles. Don’t see FLA so quick to pick him up.

Yeah, Hoffman should be the Isles target like how Panarin was. Pretty much go hard after the one guy the team desperately needs. If they don't get him, suck it up and move Wahlstrom up full-time and let him sink or swim (which they might do this year anyway).

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah, this is where I would think the edge is to the Isles as Kapanen's a better pk'er than Beau (though Beau's game is suited for it) so I could understand why Toronto wouldn't think the return warranted enough to trade KK. Not like they'd be saving money anyway as KK is signed for longer



No team is going to trade 2 1sts for a player that's going to test FA in a year or two. One first, sure. Two firsts, absolutely not.

I like Tatar. I'd really like him if he was 25 with multiple years left in the deal. To me, then his value would be closer to two firsts...but at 30 at the end of this deal for a guy that will clearly want to be in the 7+ per year for multiple years is too much risk to trade multiple firsts for.

We have enough bad contracts for players over 30.

Unfortunately we are a franchise that has to draft well since we're not a premiere destination and are capped out with bad contracts.

Last year was a blessing as the team had a wonderful season but long-term the franchise would've been better served with draft picks acquired at the deadline. Now we're not in the range to get a McDavid or Matthews when the draft rolls around and not enough talent to get to the Cup (or finals in the east for that matter).

Koivula is a first now? Kids good but hold your horses there. None of the kids mentionned are worth a 1st rounder. Its much closer to the 1 2 3 value that Tatar got than two first and a 2nd. You are overvaluing your kids. kieffer has been drafted three years ago and hes done nothing to raise his stock, hes not worth a first.

 

[bsu]

There is not top wingers available for all those pieces combined... on a side note I watched Noah Dobson workout this off season and I was very unimpressed.

 

[WangMustGo]

Yeah, this is where I would think the edge is to the Isles as Kapanen's a better pk'er than Beau (though Beau's game is suited for it) so I could understand why Toronto wouldn't think the return warranted enough to trade KK. Not like they'd be saving money anyway as KK is signed for longer



No team is going to trade 2 1sts for a player that's going to test FA in a year or two. One first, sure. Two firsts, absolutely not.

I like Tatar. I'd really like him if he was 25 with multiple years left in the deal. To me, then his value would be closer to two firsts...but at 30 at the end of this deal for a guy that will clearly want to be in the 7+ per year for multiple years is too much risk to trade multiple firsts for.

We have enough bad contracts for players over 30.

Unfortunately we are a franchise that has to draft well since we're not a premiere destination and are capped out with bad contracts.

Last year was a blessing as the team had a wonderful season but long-term the franchise would've been better served with draft picks acquired at the deadline. Now we're not in the range to get a McDavid or Matthews when the draft rolls around and not enough talent to get to the Cup (or finals in the east for that matter).

Every successful team has to draft well if they want to remain successful. Last season was nothing but a successful season. Lou and Trotz are taking this team to a place they havent been in 30+ years.

Sure it wouls have been nice to have a couple more first round picks, but id rather have Eberle, Nelson, and Lee. They add stability to this team. Lou and Trotz are building a team that will have long term success. Reminds me quite a bit of Trotz Nashville teams.

 

[sebsisles]

There is not top wingers available for all those pieces combined... on a side note I watched Noah Dobson workout this off season and I was very unimpressed.

Good thing that didn't translate to the ice, where he's looked good when he's played.

 

[WangMustGo]

There is not top wingers available for all those pieces combined... on a side note I watched Noah Dobson workout this off season and I was very unimpressed.

Good thing hes a hockey player, and not a weightlifter.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Koivula is a first now? Kids good but hold your horses there. None of the kids mentionned are worth a 1st rounder. Its much closer to the 1 2 3 value that Tatar got than two first and a 2nd. You are overvaluing your kids. kieffer has been drafted three years ago and hes done nothing to raise his stock, hes not worth a first.

Not sure why Koivula or even Bellows are being included? I said two firsts, as in two first round picks, which I don't believe Tatar is worth.

I like Koivula a lot and given our lack of center prospects, he shouldn't be moved for anyone (and that's more about the Isles lack of centers than Koivula being an untouchable). Bellows has been a disappointment, definitely. He's more like splenda, nutrasweet or sweet n low, an unacceptable "sweetener" in a deal for a better player.

 

[drw02]

His play on the ice sure warrants the value going up.

Vegas overpaid a bit because they were desperate after the Karlsson trade fell through minutes before the deadline expired, but were still getting a prime aged player who was signed long term. They weren't just paying for past performance and could reasonably expect Tatar's level of play to continue through the duration of his contract. Now that's he's at the end of his prime aged years and isn't signed long term his value has gone down despite a slight increase in production playing on a better team in Montreal than in Detroit.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Every successful team has to draft well if they want to remain successful. Last season was nothing but a successful season. Lou and Trotz are taking this team to a place they havent been in 30+ years.

Sure it wouls have been nice to have a couple more first round picks, but id rather have Eberle, Nelson, and Lee. They add stability to this team. Lou and Trotz are building a team that will have long term success. Reminds me quite a bit of Trotz Nashville teams.

I love Lee, think he's an awesome captain and an extremely gritty player. Ebs had a great run in the playoffs and Nelson had a very good year last year. That being said, that's close to 20% of the cap for 20 goal players approaching 30 years old. That's a significant amount of money for players that have reached their peak and can only decline offensively. It's a huge risk, considering they are all first or second line players.

 

[WangMustGo]

I love Lee, think he's an awesome captain and an extremely gritty player. Ebs had a great run in the playoffs and Nelson had a very good year last year. That being said, that's close to 20% of the cap for 20 goal players approaching 30 years old. That's a significant amount of money for players that have reached their peak and can only decline offensively. It's a huge risk, considering they are all first or second line players.

It certainly is a risk. i think Nelson and Eberle will be fine, the player im most worried about is Lee. However if those 3 guys can provide stability and help create a winning culture, than im all for it.

 

[bsu]

Good thing hes a hockey player, and not a weightlifter.

It was on ice workouts.... you think I am going to watch someone lift weights?

 

[Mrb1p]

Not sure why Koivula or even Bellows are being included? I said two firsts, as in two first round picks, which I don't believe Tatar is worth.

I like Koivula a lot and given our lack of center prospects, he shouldn't be moved for anyone (and that's more about the Isles lack of centers than Koivula being an untouchable). Bellows has been a disappointment, definitely. He's more like splenda, nutrasweet or sweet n low, an unacceptable "sweetener" in a deal for a better player.

My offer was Tatar for a first and two prospects who aren't too hot ATM. You countered with thats essentialy two first and a prospect ? How ? None of the prospect listed are worth a 1st, at best a 2nd and thats probably pushing it. Fact is, you are not getting a top 6 forward for a 2nd and a B prospect. Unless its at the deadline or something.

Vegas overpaid a bit because they were desperate after the Karlsson trade fell through minutes before the deadline expired, but were still getting a prime aged player who was signed long term. They weren't just paying for past performance and could reasonably expect Tatar's level of play to continue through the duration of his contract. Now that's he's at the end of his prime aged years and isn't signed long term his value has gone down despite a slight increase in production playing on a better team in Montreal than in Detroit.

He's 28, lol... 28 YEARS OLD

He still has a year on his contract left so he's certainly not a rental and he's been getting better and better. Stop being cheapstakes and try and be objective a bit, in fact, every one on the Habs board said it was an underpayment for Tatar, guess that makes it a pretty fair offer.

 

[WangMustGo]

It was on ice workouts.... you think I am going to watch someone lift weights?

Judging by what you wrote im not quite sure what you wanted me to think. Either which way, Dobson is the least of the isles problems. Trotz has developed tons of defenseman. Trotz has had nothing but high praises for Dobson. He needs to fillout and get stronger, but that will come with time. From what ive seen of Dobson he will be a top 2 defenseman. Hes a smooth skater, makes great outlet passes, gets his stick in passing lanes. Its quite obvious that he's still getting out muscled in the D zone, and still chases the puck a bit too much. Its unfortunate that he cant play in the Ahl this year, that would be the best spot for him.

 

[YP44]

how has wahlstom been looking? Thought the islanders need for a winger maybe solved internally.

 

[WangMustGo]

how has wahlstom been looking? Thought the islanders need for a winger maybe solved internally.

He has shown flashes of brilliance and looks like a surefire top 6 forward in time, but defensively hes still struggling. If he gets top 6 minutes the rest of the season i think he puts up ~25 goals.

I wouldnt be surprised if Wahlstrom goes back to the AHL, and comes up for good later in the season.

Ideally the isles still add a winger that can play with Barzal now, even a guy like Zucker or Toffoli could go a long way.