HHOF 2020 (Predictions Here)

[Oddbob]

You're deliberately missing the point.

Feel free to ignore her. I don't think anyone's going to care if you do or do not.

What point am I missing exactly! That they arbitrarily now put 2 women in just because? If the women played in a meaningful league, with lots of high end stats and hardware, than by all means let them in. Reality is, the only women's games of merit are Team Canada vs Team USA, and many of those games take place in lower end tournaments, where either side wins everytime and there is virtually no other countries even close to the forefront of competing! Whether others care or not, applies to 100% of everyone anywhere posting in any way!

 

[Theokritos]

Not the point.

I was going to ask what your point is, but in the meantime I've read your other post.

Never said she did! I was getting at, Fleury can't buy his way in to the HOF, yet a goalie with only meaningful games against Team USA and not that many to boot gets in virtually right away! How about Cujo or Ozzie, they did much much more and likely never see the HOF? She like all females thus far are getting in just because they are female and not because they were HOF material, whether people want to admit that or not.

They didn't get in just because they are female, they got in because they were the best females. Just like in basically every other sports there is, that's obviously not as high a standard as the standard for males. Everyone knows that and everyone accepts that. Is it reason to take the fun and acknowledgment away from the women who have achieved everything they could achieve in hockey? I don't see why it would and should.

 

[Oddbob]

I was going to ask what your point is, but in the meantime I've read your other post.



They didn't get in just because they are female, they got in because they were the best females. Just like in basically every other sports there is, that's obviously not as high a standard as the standard for males. Everyone knows that and everyone accepts that. Is it reason to take the fun and acknowledgment away from the women who have achieved everything they could achieve in hockey? I don't see why it would and should.

To me it means less, because it would be like the NHL having two teams battle each other every year and people getting into something called the HOF. It is also not just female related as there are some early NHL guys who barely played any games and are in the HOF. I know they played a lot less back then, but some of them don't even have super great stats or awards and are in.

 

[MXD]

Huh? A case against Crosby? There is no case. At all. In order to pass, the case would need to destroy the selection-function (by twisting the criterias as to be unrecognizable and irrelevant), making the whole thing pointless.

He's active...

 

[BenchBrawl]

He's active...

lol fair enough

 

[VanIslander]

If your list doesn't include Iginla and Hossa, then you are only fooling yourself.

Nailed it page 1. Exactly 1 year ago.

 

[Big Phil]

Rumor has it that even Phil Housley couldn't believe Lowe was inducted.

I never thought I'd say this, but I am going to actually defend Housley in the HHOF, at least in comparison with Lowe. Neither should be in, but if I had to pick one it would be Housley. What the heck happened? Now we are left with goalies as basically the only position without much - if any - controversy. Too many defensemen have gotten in now that shouldn't have.

Apparently he was "speechless" when he received the call, which is appropriate given that everyone who watched the announcement on television was similarly inclined.

"Lowe shares his reaction to getting HHOF phone call: 'I'm really speechless'

(first Lanny asks if Kevin is "at the cottage in B.C.")

The entire call is on TSN.ca

Sounds like Lanny was familiar with the cottage at least...............................

 

[Big Phil]

That 5th place in Norris voting was BS, too, since he (in a 70-game, 18 point season) was voted ahead of prime elite seasons from Chris Chelios and Mark Howe. And a still-excellent season from a late-career Potvin.

He peaked as a guy who for 2-3 years was maybe on the fringes of the top 10-12 defenders in the NHL. It's a ludicrous selection.

I haven't looked it up, but yeah that's bad then. Were they giving Lowe extra points because this was the first year post-Coffey?

 

[The Panther]

I haven't looked it up, but yeah that's bad then. Were they giving Lowe extra points because this was the first year post-Coffey?

I was scratching my head, too, trying to remember why Lowe received several stray Norris votes in 1988 (hilariously, he seemed to receive 2 first-place votes, which leads me to think two voters were drunk when they filled out the form).

As someone who (albeit as a kid) followed the team religiously that season, I can tell you there is way in hell Kevin Lowe should have been getting more Norris votes than for earlier seasons, in 1988 (nor, really, any reason he should have been getting any Norris votes).

Jacques Demers talked up Lowe quite a bit during/after the 1987 playoffs. I think his quote was something like, "We are very impressed with Kevin Lowe. Very quietly, he is the best defenseman in the League" (paraphrased, from memory). So, that may have prompted the Canadian media to start ranking him higher, even though some of them clearly weren't actually watching him play.

 

[The Panther]

For people who think Lowe was a great defensive defenceman, I have one question: Did you watch him play?

I did. He may be the single worst Cup-team defender I've ever seen at retrieving pucks from corners. He was very slow, and would routinely do a lackadaisical crawl into the corner to get the puck, and then -- pressured because he was so slow -- he would fire the puck up the boards to get it out, but often would fail. (Remember the Gretzky-1852 point when he scored in the final minute in Edmonton? That happened because Lowe failed to clear the puck.)

As far as one-on-one defenders go, Lowe was also one of the worst I've ever seen. His go-to play in 90% of such cases was to flop on the ice and hope to block a shot or impede a player. (Remember Denis Savard's beautiful goal against Edmonton in 1988? That's Lowe he beats like a rented mule to get the free shot on net, after Lowe flops and fails.) By about 1984, shooters had figured this out and would routinely fake shots and step around him like he was a pylon. But he kept on doing it -- with diminishing results -- for the rest of his career.

When the Oil were hemmed in their zone, Lowe would invariably skate to the front of the goal, directly in front of the goaltender... and stand there. He didn't really do much (except when flopping to the ice), but maybe some people thought it was heroic because he would always go back to the front of the net at a time when few Oilers did. I dunno.

 

[Big Phil]

I was scratching my head, too, trying to remember why Lowe received several stray Norris votes in 1988 (hilariously, he seemed to receive 2 first-place votes, which leads me to think two voters were drunk when they filled out the form).

As someone who (albeit as a kid) followed the team religiously that season, I can tell you there is way in hell Kevin Lowe should have been getting more Norris votes than for earlier seasons, in 1988 (nor, really, any reason he should have been getting any Norris votes).

Jacques Demers talked up Lowe quite a bit during/after the 1987 playoffs. I think his quote was something like, "We are very impressed with Kevin Lowe. Very quietly, he is the best defenseman in the League" (paraphrased, from memory). So, that may have prompted the Canadian media to start ranking him higher, even though some of them clearly weren't actually watching him play.

He might have been an okay addition for Team Canada in the 1987 Canada Cup, but he isn't one of those omissions you think hard about. Potvin, Robinson, Wilson, Stevens, MacInnis, etc. are all names that weren't there for various reasons that you think above Lowe. My thought is that he was never great. He was one of those guys in great situations from being on great teams, but I honestly am not sure Charlie Huddy isn't every bit as important to that Oilers dynasty, and that isn't something you want from a HHOFer. He has to stand out, and he didn't. Man, did the HHOF blow this one or what!

Remember Denis Savard's beautiful goal against Edmonton in 1988? That's Lowe he beats like a rented mule to get the free shot on net, after Lowe flops and fails.)

Oh yeah, THAT goal. Lovely goal. I guess to be fair to Lowe, Savard beats a lot of good players on that goal. First off, the goal is shorthanded. He gets the puck wheels around centre ice and is about to turn back into the Hawks zone (I assume to kill some clock time) but sees Messier in his way, so he turns around, eludes Glenn Anderson, then walks around Selke-caliber Tikkanen like he isn't there and then the best move he saves for last when he undresses Lowe. And then puts a low shot past Fuhr. Got to give the guy credit, he had ample opportunities to just dump the puck in but didn't.

 

[MXD]

I'm not quite sure Tom Barrasso belongs, but if it's between him and Vernon, I'm going for Barrasso 14 times out of ten.
Oh and please stop the nonsense and put Jacques Demers in the HHOF while he's still alive.

This post of mine aged weirdly...
(And yeah, somebody liked it, so sorry for totally necro'ing this one)