HHOF 2019

[Ishdul]

Kopitar is a 100% lock. Toews too, more obviously.

 

[The Panther]

Will henrik lundqvist go in even if he doesn't win a cup. I mean he has a vezina him and Ryan miller both, but I think him and Ryan miller have the longevity, miller is the winningest US born goalie and the best one other than beezer not to win a cup. And imo lundqvist is the best European goalie of his era not to win the cup.

Lundqvist strikes me as a possible Hall of Famer. He's not going to win a championship in the NHL, but he has the Vezina, and the 1st/2nd-team All Stars, and a really long, consistent career with one ("original" six) team, and a great won-lost record. He also went to the Finals twice, and was a key cog for his team (possibly the main guy) in doing so. He's also well-liked around the League.

Ryan Miller is a weird one. Didn't become an NHL regular until age 25, and then in his first five seasons (2005 to 2010) he looked like a future Hall of Famer. But his stats have declined sharply since the mid-point of his career, and he's been playing for (several) mid-level to poor clubs, which never helps one's legacy. He also doesn't seem like the nicest, most amiable guy around, which probably means 'croney-ism' won't work in his favor.

While Lundqvist and Miller each have only that one super-outstanding regular season where they were the best in the biz, Lundqvist has a long and consistent career of excellence (with one club), including two Finals' runs. I see Lundqvist as a probable/possible Hall of Famer, but definitely not Miller.

 

[The Panther]

Kopitar is a 100% lock. Toews too, more obviously.

I can't agree with Kopitar as "100% lock". I think he's more like a strong "maybe".

The fact that Kopitar (a) led the playoffs in scoring twice, and (b) is from Slovenia (novelty factor, which the League loves) works strongly in his favor.

Then again, only once in thirteen seasons has he been a top-ten scorer. Those two Selkes will help him, but in between them he had that mysterious 2016-17 season where he scored 12 goals and went -10 for a winning team. Before that, he was very consistent, though, and so I'd say he's a strong maybe Hall of Famer, leaning towards "in".

 

[Ishdul]

I can't agree with Kopitar as "100% lock". I think he's more like a strong "maybe".

The fact that Kopitar (a) led the playoffs in scoring twice, and (b) is from Slovenia (novelty factor, which the League loves) works strongly in his favor.

Then again, only once in thirteen seasons has he been a top-ten scorer. Those two Selkes will help him, but in between them he had that mysterious 2016-17 season where he scored 12 goals and went -10 for a winning team. Before that, he was very consistent, though, and so I'd say he's a strong maybe Hall of Famer, leaning towards "in".

Reasons why I think he's a lock...

1. Pretty good offensive record. He's 31 with 885 career points, very likely to get at least 1000 points if not considerably more. There still aren't a lot of modern guys hitting that mark, and of those that do you're still much more likely to get in than be left out (and if you're left out it's going to be pretty deliberate and reserved for the most egregious of compilers).
2. Really good defensive record. 2 Selke wins, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in a time with lots of high end competition. Kings had some really fantastic years defensively with him having a large role.
3. Altogether well thought of. Was a Hart nominee last year, and a down ballot choice 2 other times. 2 time 3rd All-Star at Centre. Seemed like a lot of years where he placed very highly on player polls, TSN lists, etc. I generally see the grouping of him, Toews and Bergeron together, who are also both getting in.
4. Great winning record. #1 centre and arguably the best player on a 2 time Cup winner, and along with Doughty he's the most obvious choice for representation among them.
5. I agree that being the only Slovenian player of note helps, and really being a star from a non-traditional hockey playing country.

 

[Michael Farkas]

100% lock is an extremely charitable take...if presented with reasonable odds, I would put money down against it...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

if a guy leads the league in playoff scoring twice while being the undisputed best forward en route to the cup both times, that's hard to pass over. then give him a first 13 years that when adjusted looks identical offensively to modano and isn't far off from sundin, add two selkes and fedorov's selke record (not saying he was as good as fedorov defensively but the placements are basically the same), and i don't see how you can keep him out.

he'll hit 1,000 games tonight, so longevity isn't a factor, and over the course of his career to date, he's outscored the following centers: h sedin, getzlaf, nick backstrom, eric staal... literally every center other than crosby, malkin, and thornton, and every forward other than those three plus ovechkin and kane. every single player ahead of him was a first overall pick except malkin, all were MVPs and scoring champs and first ballot HHOFers. yes, kopitar's consistent health gives him a bit of an edge over some of those contemporaries (he's only missed 28 games over those thirteen seasons) but he's also 12th in points/game among players who have played 800 games since his rookie year, and still 12th (and 10th in total points) if you want to make it neat and expand the range to 800 games since the lockout.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

ryan miller was probably ready for the NHL in the lockout year. not sure whether that helps or hurts him though, because he hit the ground running with that felix potvin-esque start. and come to think of it, is ryan miller just felix potvin with a vezina and a US passport?

 

[MS]

I would bet literally everything I own that Kopitar makes the HHOF.

He’ll have 1000+ points with 1 team which is basically a lock by itself combined with being the leading scorer on multiple Cup winners and being an elite defensive forward with multiple Selke wins.

Like, it isn’t even close.

 

[Michael Farkas]

So...you would have no trouble offering a degenerate, say, 1000:1 odds for it to not happen, right? Since "it isn't even close" and all that...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

So...you would have no trouble offering a degenerate, say, 1000:1 odds for it to not happen, right? Since "it isn't even close" and all that...

well there's always a chance. kopitar might get caught betting on his own team's games, or he might be convicted of some heinous high profile crime, or he might end up playing so long that the institution of the hockey hall of fame no longer exists by the time he retires, or maybe climate migration and planetary energy crises instigate a world war and we all have better things to worry about than playing sports on ice, were that even possible.

but if all external factors are as reasonably predicted, i think he could retire after tonight's game and get in.

i mean, he's played thirteen full seasons, 999 games, and there's not a damn thing mats sundin ever did in the league that he hasn't equaled or topped.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Fine...100:1.

I don't even think he doesn't make it...I just think that it being bandied about as the lock of the century is more than a little charitable...

 

[MXD]

Fine...100:1.

I don't even think he doesn't make it...I just think that it being bandied about as the lock of the century is more than a little charitable...

...But frankly, the only reason why he isn't a lock of the century type is the fact they HHOF made some hare-brained choices in the past.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

Kopitar, Toews and Bergeron are all basically on the same tier and I’d bet they all get in pretty easily. There’s just not a whole lot separating those three players.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Seriously?

Yes, Numminen scored 15 more RS points.

But he played 488 more games.

I hate the whole writers saying ohh you had to play the games to get the points that's why rod brindamour isn't in yet cuz he played a lot of games. And marleau will fall victim to that.

 

[The Panther]

I dunno, I think Kopitar's chances are about 70% to get in. (But if it were up to me the Hall would have higher standards and a Kopitar wouldn't be in.) He's getting a lot of mileage for leading the playoffs in scoring twice, fair enough (not that his numbers are as good as, say, Malkin's or whomever, and they're only marginally better offensively than Doughty's). But the playoffs is, after all, 15 weeks in his thirteen year career. In the regular season, he's got two Selke trophies and one bottom-end top-10 scoring finish. I mean, Guy Carbonneau had three Selke's and isn't in. Pierre Turgeon had better scoring finishes than Kopitar and isn't in.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kopitar will make the Hall of Fame -- being Slovenian and playing for a League-priority team (L.A.) pretty much ensures that. And he has had a nice balance of offensive and defensive skill.

I think, in my ideal Hall of Fame, the cut-off point would be at the Mats Sundin level. Sundin would be in, and nobody below him would be.

 

[streitz]

I dunno, I think Kopitar's chances are about 70% to get in. (But if it were up to me the Hall would have higher standards and a Kopitar wouldn't be in.) He's getting a lot of mileage for leading the playoffs in scoring twice, fair enough (not that his numbers are as good as, say, Malkin's or whomever, and they're only marginally better offensively than Doughty's). But the playoffs is, after all, 15 weeks in his thirteen year career. In the regular season, he's got two Selke trophies and one bottom-end top-10 scoring finish. I mean, Guy Carbonneau had three Selke's and isn't in. Pierre Turgeon had better scoring finishes than Kopitar and isn't in.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kopitar will make the Hall of Fame -- being Slovenian and playing for a League-priority team (L.A.) pretty much ensures that. And he has had a nice balance of offensive and defensive skill.

I think, in my ideal Hall of Fame, the cut-off point would be at the Mats Sundin level. Sundin would be in, and nobody below him would be.

If they put Housley and Andreychuk in, they're 1000% putting Kopitar in.


I'm sure we can expect some really strange inductions in the next 5-10 years while they struggle to meet their 4 a year quota.

 

[Michael Farkas]

That logic continues to make limited or no sense...

"They made those Ruffles 'Wow!' chips that make your hoop bleed or whatever...so they could definitely get away with Brillo Wafers..."

People just aren't gonna eat steel wool because the packaging is fancy...

(Not that HOF committee won't make another mistake one day, some time...but citing Dick Duff as a grounds for letting in Matt Cullen is pointless...)

 

[Vujtek]

I dunno, I think Kopitar's chances are about 70% to get in. (But if it were up to me the Hall would have higher standards and a Kopitar wouldn't be in.) He's getting a lot of mileage for leading the playoffs in scoring twice, fair enough (not that his numbers are as good as, say, Malkin's or whomever, and they're only marginally better offensively than Doughty's). But the playoffs is, after all, 15 weeks in his thirteen year career. In the regular season, he's got two Selke trophies and one bottom-end top-10 scoring finish. I mean, Guy Carbonneau had three Selke's and isn't in. Pierre Turgeon had better scoring finishes than Kopitar and isn't in.

I think Kopitar is one of those players with whom you need to look at whole context and not just top-10 scoring finishes (opposite of Turgeon really). LAK has been a low scoring team most/almost all of his time there and he hasn't really had a high scoring winger ever. Alex Frolov is highest scoring LA King with 67 points outside of Kopitar during his time there. Having elite D-man like Doughty helps but he's lacked that star linemate many other greats have enjoyed (Kane to Toews when they've played together throughout the years; Marchand/Pastrnak for Bergeron in recent years etc.). He's similar to Sundin and Iginla in that regard as never really having a star linemate or even another elite forward (Crosby/Malkin situation). But as far as leading his team in scoring, Kopitar ranks quite high on all-time list amongst a list full of HHOF'ers.

Here's the list of players that have led their team in scoring for atleast 10 times during their careers in the regular seasons (numbers include this season):

19 Wayne Gretzky
17 Gordie Howe
13 Mats Sundin
13 Jaromir Jagr
12 Gilbert Perreault
12 Marcel Dionne
12 Dale Hawerchuk
12 Joe Sakic
12 Jarome Iginla
12 Alexander Ovechkin  -active
11 Steve Yzerman
11 Mario Lemieux
11 Mike Modano
11 Anze Kopitar        -active
10 Phil Esposito
10 Joe Thornton        -active
10 Sidney Crosby       -active

That's a pretty good group for Kopitar to be in with. Yeah that's a bit obscure stat (hurting players with another elite player if they've taken turns in leading team in points) but at the same time the stat also shows who have been able to be elite players/leaders for their team a long time. There's not a long time just really good players on bad teams situations there in my mind.

Add the Selke's, Cups and playoff stat totals/scoring finishes and you have a slam dunk HHOF'er here.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I dunno, I think Kopitar's chances are about 70% to get in. (But if it were up to me the Hall would have higher standards and a Kopitar wouldn't be in.) He's getting a lot of mileage for leading the playoffs in scoring twice, fair enough (not that his numbers are as good as, say, Malkin's or whomever, and they're only marginally better offensively than Doughty's). But the playoffs is, after all, 15 weeks in his thirteen year career. In the regular season, he's got two Selke trophies and one bottom-end top-10 scoring finish. I mean, Guy Carbonneau had three Selke's and isn't in. Pierre Turgeon had better scoring finishes than Kopitar and isn't in.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kopitar will make the Hall of Fame -- being Slovenian and playing for a League-priority team (L.A.) pretty much ensures that. And he has had a nice balance of offensive and defensive skill.

I think, in my ideal Hall of Fame, the cut-off point would be at the Mats Sundin level. Sundin would be in, and nobody below him would be.

If Sundin is your cutoff, kopitar easily clears that cutoff. Slightly worse offensively in the RS, vastly superior defensively, and vastly superior PO resume.

 

[GlitchMarner]

If Sundin is your cutoff, kopitar easily clears that cutoff. Slightly worse offensively in the RS, vastly superior defensively, and vastly superior PO resume.

You have to remember International play for Sundin as well, though.

He also has a longevity advantage in the NHL at this point. If Kopitar gets back on track after this season, he can close the gap in that department.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Now I have a question Ik there not eligible this year there not eligible til 2021 the sedin brothers are they first ballot, Ik jagr is in that class if he's eligible. And iginla is hands down a first ballot hall of famer in 2020.

 

[Merya]

Fine...100:1.

I don't even think he doesn't make it...I just think that it being bandied about as the lock of the century is more than a little charitable...

You can't win that bet tho. He will perpetually have a chance to be inducted, beyond your lifespan or mine, unless HHOF changes their rules and makes an "out" list.

You have to remember International play for Sundin as well, though.

Kopitar captained the "rest of the world" team to world cup finals. That's a pretty darn good showing internationally for someone who otherwise hasn't had any realistic chances.

 

[kaiser matias]

You can't win that bet tho. He will perpetually have a chance to be inducted, beyond your lifespan or mine, unless HHOF changes their rules and makes an "out" list.




Kopitar captained the "rest of the world" team to world cup finals. That's a pretty darn good showing internationally for someone who otherwise hasn't had any realistic chances.

He also helped Slovenia reach the quarterfinals of the 2014 Olympics, which is pretty huge considering they struggle to stay at the top level of the World Championships.

 

[Giotrapani91]

I have a question do the sedins go in the hall first ballot in 2021 or do they go in, in either 2022 or 2023.

 

[Neutrinos]

I have a question do the sedins go in the hall first ballot in 2021 or do they go in, in either 2022 or 2023.

I have the Sedins in the same tier as Naslund. They had a Hall of Fame peak, but the bulk of their careers are below that of what you would expect from a Hall of Famer