HHOF 2008 Eligable Players

[God Bless Canada]

look who is eligible next year:players who retired in 2006 & earlier.

Steve Yzerman 1st Ballot for sure
Brett Hull possible 1st Ballot
Adam Oates
Doug Gilmour
Dino Ciccerelli
Luc Robitaille
Dave Andreychuk
Phil Housely
Bernie Nichols
Vinny Damphouse
Theo Fleury
Dave Taylor

Brian Leetch is also eligible for the first time next year. (Three years after your last game, not three years after you retire).

Not sure if Fleury is first-time eligible next year or not, but I really hope he gets in eventually. One of the most defining players of his generation.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Summary of Election Procedures

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/indelection.htm

Player : Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.

Player : Must have concluded his career as an active player for a minimum of three playing seasons.

Builder: Coaching, managerial or executive ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to their organizations and to the game of hockey in general. May be active or inactive.


Referee/Linesman : Officiating ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the game of hockey in general.

Referee/Linesman Must have concluded his career as an active referee or linesman for a minimum of three playing seasons.

 

[MS]

Not a huge fan of Anderson getting in. Very good clutch player, but IMO his success was much more a result of playing for Edmonton than Edmonton's success was a result of Anderson. If he is drafted by anyone other than the Oilers, he wouldn't have been a HHOFer. His mediocrity after Gretzky was dealt and the off-ice stuff associated with him (might be the worst human being in the HHOF) bothers me. Personally I don't think it's any different than Claude Lemieux getting in.

I do recognize his playoff totals and I can live with him being there but ... meh.

Larionov was a slam dunk.

Shameful that Bure was excluded again when there was an opening to put him in. Simply one of the couple most dynamic, exciting players ever to lace on skates and probably the most dominant goalscorer of his generation. A legend who will be talked about with awe 50 years from now, and defines what a 'Hall of Fame' should be about. But I guess if you don't have a couple average seasons in your mid-30s to drag your career goal total over 500, it isn't good enough. Ridiculous.

Oates and Howe also had a legitimate claim, and the HHOF continues to stupidly ignore international greats of the 1970s and 1980s.

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

My guess is that Larionov will be the last of the international stars inducted, and guys like Mikhailov, Makarov, Vasiliev and Nedomansky will have to be happy with the IIHF HOF. (Hey, that's what it's there for).

I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction comes true, but I (and probably many other hockey fans) often forget about the IIHF HOF.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Not a huge fan of Anderson getting in. Very good clutch player, but IMO his success was much more a result of playing for Edmonton than Edmonton's success was a result of Anderson. If he is drafted by anyone other than the Oilers, he wouldn't have been a HHOFer. His mediocrity after Gretzky was dealt and the off-ice stuff associated with him (might be the worst human being in the HHOF) bothers me. Personally I don't think it's any different than Claude Lemieux getting in.

I do recognize his playoff totals and I can live with him being there but ... meh.

Larionov was a slam dunk.

Shameful that Bure was excluded again when there was an opening to put him in. Simply one of the couple most dynamic, exciting players ever to lace on skates and probably the most dominant goalscorer of his generation. A legend who will be talked about with awe 50 years from now, and defines what a 'Hall of Fame' should be about. But I guess if you don't have a couple average seasons in your mid-30s to drag your career goal total over 500, it isn't good enough. Ridiculous.

Oates and Howe also had a legitimate claim, and the HHOF continues to stupidly ignore international greats of the 1970s and 1980s.

Let's not be hyperbolous here. Anderson has his off-ice issues, and he is a bit of a space cadet. But the worst person in the HHOF? Harold Ballard, anybody? Among the players, well, Eddie Shore wasn't exactly a good guy, either. If you look back, there's quite a few HHOF players with some baggage to their names.

Also, if you take a long, hard look at the players from the Oilers dynasty (plus the Islanders and 70s Habs dynasties), a lot of them saw their play tail off once they hit 30. Anderson was one of them. Coffey and Kurri also had their play tail off considerably, too. (Outside of the lockout-shortened 1995 season, Coffey had a lot of forgettable years). Fuhr nearly played his way out of the league until he had his magnificent comeback season in 1995-96. So Anderson's not the only one. I think it's because these guys played so much hockey during the dynasty years, and it eventually caught up to them. Playing 20-28 playoff games is like playing an additional regular season. Anderson was a 30-year-old in a 35-40-year-old's body by the time 1990 rolled around.

You want to talk about bad people getting into the HHOF? Pavel Bure was an awful human being. From his mafia connections (geez, I'm sure that went over well with Russian NHLers who were suffering extortion at the hands of those guys) to that threatened holdout prior to Game 7 in the first round of the 1994 playoffs, Bure was not a good person at all. And it hurts his case. I don't think the lack of 500 goals hurts his cause at all. It sure hasn't helped Pat Verbeek. What hurts Bure is that he was one-dimensional - if he wasn't scoring goals, he wasn't contributing, and he was a liability - and he is a bad human being.

As I said before, I think Larionov's the last of the Soviet greats to get into the HHOF. The others will be in the IIHF HOF. It's been the NHLHOF for 40 years. I don't think it's going to change soon.

 

[canucks4ever]

Let's not be hyperbolous here. Anderson has his off-ice issues, and he is a bit of a space cadet. But the worst person in the HHOF? Harold Ballard, anybody? Among the players, well, Eddie Shore wasn't exactly a good guy, either. If you look back, there's quite a few HHOF players with some baggage to their names.

Also, if you take a long, hard look at the players from the Oilers dynasty (plus the Islanders and 70s Habs dynasties), a lot of them saw their play tail off once they hit 30. Anderson was one of them. Coffey and Kurri also had their play tail off considerably, too. (Outside of the lockout-shortened 1995 season, Coffey had a lot of forgettable years). Fuhr nearly played his way out of the league until he had his magnificent comeback season in 1995-96. So Anderson's not the only one. I think it's because these guys played so much hockey during the dynasty years, and it eventually caught up to them. Playing 20-28 playoff games is like playing an additional regular season. Anderson was a 30-year-old in a 35-40-year-old's body by the time 1990 rolled around.

You want to talk about bad people getting into the HHOF? Pavel Bure was an awful human being. From his mafia connections (geez, I'm sure that went over well with Russian NHLers who were suffering extortion at the hands of those guys) to that threatened holdout prior to Game 7 in the first round of the 1994 playoffs, Bure was not a good person at all. And it hurts his case. I don't think the lack of 500 goals hurts his cause at all. It sure hasn't helped Pat Verbeek. What hurts Bure is that he was one-dimensional - if he wasn't scoring goals, he wasn't contributing, and he was a liability - and he is a bad human being.

As I said before, I think Larionov's the last of the Soviet greats to get into the HHOF. The others will be in the IIHF HOF. It's been the NHLHOF for 40 years. I don't think it's going to change soon.

Could you tell me more about Pavel being an aweful human being, i thought he was always nice to the fans.

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

It sure hasn't helped Pat Verbeek. What hurts Bure is that he was one-dimensional - if he wasn't scoring goals, he wasn't contributing, and he was a liability - and he is a bad human being.

Agreed, and while I'm definitely a Verbeek fan, 500 goals and a Cup win doesn't equal a ticket into the HOF anymore. Well, at least if you're a canadian player - if your last name happens to be Jagr, Selänne, Modano or Sundin, that increases your chances.

ushvinder - I don't know anything about this specific case, but being nice to fans does not equal being a nice guy.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Agreed, and while I'm definitely a Verbeek fan, 500 goals and a Cup win doesn't equal a ticket into the HOF anymore. Well, at least if you're a canadian player - if your last name happens to be Jagr, Selänne, Modano or Sundin, that increases your chances.

ushvinder - I don't know anything about this specific case, but being nice to fans does not equal being a nice guy.

The comparisons don't fit there. Don't know if you were trying to be sarcastic. Those four players all had much better peaks than Verbeek (especially the first two). Verbeek never led a Cup champ in scoring. Modano did.

Bondra and Roenick never won a Cup, but they did hit 500 goals, and neither of them will get in the HHOF, either.

 

[MS]

Let's not be hyperbolous here. Anderson has his off-ice issues, and he is a bit of a space cadet. But the worst person in the HHOF? Harold Ballard, anybody? Among the players, well, Eddie Shore wasn't exactly a good guy, either. If you look back, there's quite a few HHOF players with some baggage to their names.

Also, if you take a long, hard look at the players from the Oilers dynasty (plus the Islanders and 70s Habs dynasties), a lot of them saw their play tail off once they hit 30. Anderson was one of them. Coffey and Kurri also had their play tail off considerably, too. (Outside of the lockout-shortened 1995 season, Coffey had a lot of forgettable years). Fuhr nearly played his way out of the league until he had his magnificent comeback season in 1995-96. So Anderson's not the only one. I think it's because these guys played so much hockey during the dynasty years, and it eventually caught up to them. Playing 20-28 playoff games is like playing an additional regular season. Anderson was a 30-year-old in a 35-40-year-old's body by the time 1990 rolled around.

You want to talk about bad people getting into the HHOF? Pavel Bure was an awful human being. From his mafia connections (geez, I'm sure that went over well with Russian NHLers who were suffering extortion at the hands of those guys) to that threatened holdout prior to Game 7 in the first round of the 1994 playoffs, Bure was not a good person at all. And it hurts his case. I don't think the lack of 500 goals hurts his cause at all. It sure hasn't helped Pat Verbeek. What hurts Bure is that he was one-dimensional - if he wasn't scoring goals, he wasn't contributing, and he was a liability - and he is a bad human being.

As I said before, I think Larionov's the last of the Soviet greats to get into the HHOF. The others will be in the IIHF HOF. It's been the NHLHOF for 40 years. I don't think it's going to change soon.

Anderson had a lot of drug/lifestyle rumours surrounding him during his career, had a 'friend' die in his swimming pool, and then after retirement moved to the Caribbean to avoid child support payments while spending his time playing golf. And he was one of the dirtiest players in the NHL with his stick during his playing career. He's a total a$$hole. I'll give you Ballard, but amongst players he has probably the lowest character/contribution to the game credit of anyone in there. Bure's off-ice stuff isn't close to Anderson's.

Anderson didn't crash at 30. He crashed at 27, at pretty much the exact point Gretzky was traded. Scored 16 goals the next year. Between the ages of 27 and 34, when he should have still been in the prime of his career, he was a middling second-line player averaging less than 25 goals and 60 points/season. Kurri's production actually went *up* after Gretzky was traded, and Coffey was an All-Star for a decade after leaving Edmonton - there's no comparison there. Anderson was never anything special on a team without Gretzky.


Bure is the best goalscorer of his generation. He might be the most exciting player ever to lace up skates. When you're that good, the off-ice stuff shouldn't matter. I've posted this stat before, but in the history of the NHL there are only 10 players who have five 50-goal seasons :

Bobby Hull
Phil Esposito
Guy Lafleur
Marcel Dionne
Mike Bossy
Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Pavel Bure

That stat right there puts him in, no questions asked. Especially when he only played 5 seasons of 70 or more games. When you look at his goalscoring resume, it's a no-brainer that he should be in the HHOF.

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

I wasn't planning on comparing Verbeek to those other players, I just noted what they had in common - except for Sundin. For him and Roenick, there's always next year (yes, I know they're relatively old)!

This thread isn't really about Sundin, but he defines consistency. He won't get in ahead of Oates or Gilmour, but eventually, I believe he'll make it.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Let's not be hyperbolous here. Anderson has his off-ice issues, and he is a bit of a space cadet. But the worst person in the HHOF? Harold Ballard, anybody? Among the players, well, Eddie Shore wasn't exactly a good guy, either. If you look back, there's quite a few HHOF players with some baggage to their names.

Ballard was as cheap as they come but I don't think he was a horrible person. Didn't he donate lots of money and most of his estate to charity?

 

[Vector]

Ballard was as cheap as they come but I don't think he was a horrible person. Didn't he donate lots of money and most of his estate to charity?

He was also accused of being a child molester.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Ballard

Not saying Wikipedia is the best place for facts but it gives a pretty good overview of the man.

 

[reckoning]

I'm disappointed Howe didn't get in, but I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that he likely never will be. I'm disappointed that Oates didn't get in, but it would be cool if he gets in next year in the same class as Brett Hull.

Anderson and Larionov? Don't think TSN will be breaking any ratings records for that induction ceremony.

On the bright side, at least this year they didn't decide to scan Leaf rosters from the 60s to see if they've missed anybody. I was worried Bob Baun or Ron Ellis might get in.

 

[Gobias Industries]

I'm going to throw this out there..

Substitute Rick Vaive in for Glenn Anderson in 1981..

Does Rick Vaive put up better statistics than Anderson, both regular season and playoffs?

 

[MXD]

look who is eligible next year:players who retired in 2006 & earlier.

Steve Yzerman 1st Ballot for sure
Brett Hull possible 1st Ballot
Adam Oates
Doug Gilmour
Dino Ciccerelli
Luc Robitaille
Dave Andreychuk
Phil Housely
Bernie Nichols
Vinny Damphouse
Theo Fleury
Dave Taylor

Luc Robitaille BETTER be a 1st balloter, for the sole reason he's the goal-scoring leader at his position, nevermind it's probably the weakest one. Now I think Michel Goulet was a better player than Robitaille (well, he certainly more well-rounded), but the stat-based argument leads me to think he really should be there, if Goulet is.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

I'm going to throw this out there..

Substitute Rick Vaive in for Glenn Anderson in 1981..

Does Rick Vaive put up better statistics than Anderson, both regular season and playoffs?

No, not even close.

 

[MS]

No, not even close.

Considering that Vaive scored more goals than Anderson in the 1980-1990 time period as it was with guys like Peter Ihnacak, John Anderson, and Dan Daoust as linemates, I think it's fair to say that it would have been a bit more than 'close' if Vaive was getting Anderson's icetime with Gretzky/Messier/Kurri.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Considering that Vaive scored more goals than Anderson in the 1980-1990 time period as it was with guys like Peter Ihnacak, John Anderson, and Dan Daoust as linemates, I think it's fair to say that it would have been a bit more than 'close' if Vaive was getting Anderson's icetime with Gretzky/Messier/Kurri.

Vaive was also full time head shnizbizzle in T.O. Anderson, who played with Messier, rarely with Gretzky and Kurri at even strength, had to share the light and time in Edmonton. His stats also came when it counted, I venture to say that Vaive wouldn't have been nearly so clutch, though we will never know for sure.. Stats count more than goals, they also count assists. I liked Vaive, I just don't think he was anywhere remotely capable of replacing and replicating Anderson's accomplishments.