ck26
Alcoholab User
Name a better player from Minnesota.
Brimsek maybe?
You're telling me that there's no place in the HHOF for the 2nd best player from Minnesota?
HHOF 2008 Eligable Players
- Thread starter cupcrazyman
- Start date
Brimsek maybe?
You're telling me that there's no place in the HHOF for the 2nd best player from Minnesota?
I don't care where he's from. I care about how good he was. And the bottom line is I listed four defencemen not in the HHOF (three who should be there, one who shouldn't) who are better than Phil Housley.
Are you telling me that Housley is the second-best player to ever come out of Minnesota? (I would take Brimsek over him in a heart beat).
Howe Elbows 9
Registered User
Howe Elbows 9
Registered User
Apparently he did well enough to win a Jack Adams award in the third year with the Kings, when they had the fourth best regular season record in the league.
Yet somehow lost to the mediocrity that was the Maple Leafs, in the heyday of the clueless Ballard era...
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
It should be noted that Mark Howe put up those numbers in the WHA as a left wing.
That said, he was defenitely a better all-around player than Housley. I don't know how anyone could call Howe a pylon unless they only saw him at the end of his career. He was a great skater in his prime. And as I've stated before, one of the best wrist shots I've ever seen.
Bure is the only true great that I see on that list at the HHOF site. His goal per game ratio is better than Cam Neely's and his playoff stats, especially from '94 where he nearly won the Canucks the Cup are amazing too.
-He was a 1st team all-star once, 2nd team three times.
-Led the league in goal scoring 3 times
-scored over 50 goals 5 times
-twice scored 60 goals
His career was cut short due to injury, just like Neely's.
The rest of the players on the list are pretty ho-hum if you ask me with hardly any individual award winners, statisical leaders or sizzle.
-He was a 1st team all-star once, 2nd team three times.
-Led the league in goal scoring 3 times
-scored over 50 goals 5 times
-twice scored 60 goals
His career was cut short due to injury, just like Neely's.
The rest of the players on the list are pretty ho-hum if you ask me with hardly any individual award winners, statisical leaders or sizzle.
I totally agree, they have Mike Gartner in the hof cuz he was consistent but never great. A goalie thats on the same level as him is like a Vanbiesbrouck or Kolzig and you wont see them in the HOF.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
No actually, Howe put up those numbers in the NHL. As a WHA LW when he started to hit his prime, he was putting up 90-100+ points. His first NHL season as a Dman in Hartford, he put up 80 points and was on his way to a repeat season before his near career ending injury the next season.
His season on the defense first Flyers squads is where he really made his mark with his +85 seasons. Hartford was so worried he was done from that injury that they traded him because they were afraid to chance it.
Gartner is the perfect example of a player having inflated stats due to playing in the high scoring 1980's. Only once did he manage to crack the top five in league goal scoring. Yet somehow he managed 708 career goals.
You could make a better argument for Ciccarelli because at least his playoff stats didn't drop off the way that Gartner's did. Dino showed up!
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
Housley better than pylon Mark Howe? You're the same guy that referred to Mike Bossy as soft, n'est ce pas?
Badger Bob
Registered User
To reply means you took "Al Bundy" seriously to *some* extent. Al Bundy claims to be a Sabres fan, but has no recollection of Pierre Turgeon as a Sabre, as he was too young to remember. He opens up over, on average, 10 threads/day.
Here is the gist of Phil Housley - overheard memories in the locker room at my gym. Some old time Sabres fans were 'reminiscing' about when Housley was a Sabre. During the playoffs one year, Stephane Richer - hardly a physical force - broke in, Housley completely froze, and Richer potted one. This was indicative of the problems facing the Sabres during that era, and there was hardly a wet eye in town after news broke out of Housley being traded to Winnepeg.
Let me explain:
1. I became a Sabre fan the day they traded for LaFontaine. I was a general hockey fan, but I didn't have a specific team to root for. When the Sabres traded for LaFontaine, I became a fan of Buffalo.
2. I am no longer a Sabres fan, thanks to Darcy Regier and his cost-cutting stupidity. He has already let go of Drury, Briere, Campbell, Dumont, Grier, Biron, and McKee. I severed my Sabres ties back in April and will NEVER go back to them. I am NEVER, EVER going to root for them again.
(I predict Regier will probably trade Ryan Miller for 'veteran experience' by 2010.)
3. As for Housley, I only found out about his Sabres days years later in retrospect. I started to like the guy when he was a Jet.
4. The reason I open up so many threads is because I LIKE TO TALK ABOUT HOCKEY! You make it sound like "opening up, on average, 10 threads/day" is tantamount to pulling a Stefan.
Also, my family moved from Buffalo to Wisconsin in 1994- Where I live, it is impossible to find anyone who likes NHL hockey.
You guys on HFBoards are like a hockey fraternity to me.
This is the only way I can talk seriously about the game- nobody I know can tell a hockey puck from a marshmallow duck.
I like to talk about hockey- certainly, that's not a bad thing.
P.S. BadgerBob, I understand you dont like Housley, but you act like he's a combination of Patrik Stefan and Alexander Daigle.
Did he snub your autograph request?
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Call me a homer, but I believe that Makarov, Mikhailov and Firsov all belong.
I don't think it's right to punish these players solely on the fact that USSR government didn't let them play in the NHL.
I strongly believe that all 3 would've been 1st-ballot had they played all of their career in the NHL.
I don't think it's right to punish these players solely on the fact that USSR government didn't let them play in the NHL.
I strongly believe that all 3 would've been 1st-ballot had they played all of their career in the NHL.
Badger Bob
Registered User
Agree with that Miller part, but Regier is most likely following orders.
Not even to discuss the Badgers?
It was like that in the old days, but the XBox crowd infected the joint.
Somebody else was discussing the criticism leveled at Turgeon, Andreychuk and Housley for the playoff futility. Much of that was deserved. Andreychuk eventually had the last laugh (in my view, he was unfairly run out of town, but he did not blast the city, fans or the media), Turgeon was having a coming out party in '93 (cheaply cut short by Hunter's cheap shot - truth be know, I was pleased to see him elevate his play). Housley never had any history of post-season accomplishment. Part of it could be that he was with poor organizations, but then it could just as easily be said that winning organizations simply didn't want him.
His entire career was based on either not qualifying for the playoffs or tanking early. The lone exception was in Washington, where he was not even an important component of their success (i.e. he was probably used as PP specialist almost exclusively). Try to read the posts to learn, instead of just opening up a new Housley thread to carry on an endless crusade. Even his biggest defenders cannot deny that there was a distinguished history of underachievement with a heavy wuss factor and significant lapses of commitment/concentration/dedication. He should've been kept as a forward to utilize his offensive instincts. To mention him among the all-time great defensemen does an enormous disservice to the position, putting it lightly.
Basically, the argument is "he got a lot of points!" Compare that to names like Orr, Harvey, Potvin, Stevens, Lidstrom, Bourque, Leech, etc. This is just a list for starters. These are players, for whom teams could be built around. Could anybody ever make that claim about Housley? Maybe Scotty Bowman thought so, when he was first drafted. The results proved otherwise. A few posters put too much emphasis on winning the Cup as judgement of player greatness. It can put a stamp on a career, so it's not the overriding factor. Still, there's something awfully dubious about the number of NHL games that Housley played without getting a whiff. News of a lone All-Star selection surprised me. He's never won any significant awards.
No, but you should find out what Rob Ray thinks of him.
why should there have been they got dale hawerchuk for him. what a steal by buffalo.
Sven was a freak. I could with ease argue him as one of the most talented atletes ever.
He won 8 SEL-championships.
World Championships
Gold Zurich-Basel 1953
Bronze Stockholm 1954
Gold Moskva 1957
Bronze Oslo 1958
Gold Colorado Springs 1962 I
Silver Stockholm 1963
Bronze Tammerfors 1965
Olympics
Bronze Oslo 1952
Silver Innsbruck 1964
245 Caps and 186 Goals
Nothing with talent but he also invented the first hockey-helmet aswell
Thats Hockey
He also represented Swedens National Team in Football(soccer) and won the Swedish league once.
As if thats not enough he also introduced Golf in sweden. He also won a pro-contest and represented sweden in several worldwide teamcontests
He also won the swedish championship in waterskiing back in 1959
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Here is your quote I was referring to:
"Mark Howe was a great defenseman who spent many of his prime years playing in the WHA putting up fantastic numbers."
It sounds like he put up his WHA numbers, from your quote, as a defenseman.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Not to argue one way or the other, but using a Stephane Richer 1 on 1 moment doesn't carry much weight. I was watching "Bruins Classics" last night and in a playoff game from 1990, Richer froze Ray Bourque in the same manner. Richer was one of the very best one on one players of his day, or any other for that matter.
Just to add to one of Badger Bob's statements: how critical was Housley to the Caps run of 1998? After the playoffs, they waived him. Housley went on to have a couple nice resurgent seasons with Calgary and Chicago, but Housley meant nothing to Washington in 1998. Four points in 18 playoff games? He was the offensive defenceman without the offence.
As for Mike Gartner: he's tied for third all-time in 40 goal seasons. He wasn't just a by-product of the 1980s. He was an outstanding skater, likely one of the best ever, and he had a bullet shot. Excellent goal scoring instincts, too.
He didn't have the peak that some players had, and his playoff record is uninspiring. The latter holds him back. But a lot of posters underrate the value of consistency. When you enter a season, and you know that a player is going to get you 35 to 45 goals, that's huge. (He dropped below 35 five times - four times in the last five seasons, and 88-89, when he was hurt). That's something that a lot of posters around here don't consider. And he was good enough to be picked for a scorer's role in the Canada Cup twice.
As for Mike Gartner: he's tied for third all-time in 40 goal seasons. He wasn't just a by-product of the 1980s. He was an outstanding skater, likely one of the best ever, and he had a bullet shot. Excellent goal scoring instincts, too.
He didn't have the peak that some players had, and his playoff record is uninspiring. The latter holds him back. But a lot of posters underrate the value of consistency. When you enter a season, and you know that a player is going to get you 35 to 45 goals, that's huge. (He dropped below 35 five times - four times in the last five seasons, and 88-89, when he was hurt). That's something that a lot of posters around here don't consider. And he was good enough to be picked for a scorer's role in the Canada Cup twice.
I'd love to see Mark Howe, JC Tremblay, Carl Brewer, Ralph Backstrom, Claude Provost and Rogie Vachon get in, but I think there are better options. .[/QUOTE]
Great minds think alike or is it that fools seldom differ? Was asked to put together a team of guys who were not in the HHoF by the good folks at Whatif so they could play it against a random team chosen from the already enshrined for a segment on the FASTHockey radio show a couple weeks ago. All the guys listed above were on my team, dubbed the Hall of the Very Good. Put the team together off the top of my head and figured if I won a couple games in the series I'd be doing OK. My guys won it 4-2, making me wonder just how slight the difference in talent is between them that's in and them that's knocking on the door
As for the builders, my pick is Herb Carnegie. The pioneer of the famed Future Aces program who has been a fixture for hockey in Quebec for decades. I'd love to see Junior A icon Dwight McMillan get inducted (he just joined HHOFer Brian Kilrea among the only junior coaches to win 1,000 games) but I think Carnegie deserves it more.[/QUOTE]
Grew up on tales of Herb Carnegie from my father, who saw him play in Shawinigan and was as thrilled to meet him a few years ago as I was to meet any of the Hall of Famers I've been lucky enough to chat with. He and Jean Beliveau are the only two guys that absolutely nobody has anything negative to say about. He was heavily promoted for induction last year by a number of admirers but didn't get the needed votes. wasn't the first time his name came up but I'm afraid that, for all his contributions, a role model both in hockey and in the real world, the fact that he didn't play in the NHL will be the big impediment to his enshrinement although nothing'd make me happier than to see this statement made inoperative.
Great minds think alike or is it that fools seldom differ? Was asked to put together a team of guys who were not in the HHoF by the good folks at Whatif so they could play it against a random team chosen from the already enshrined for a segment on the FASTHockey radio show a couple weeks ago. All the guys listed above were on my team, dubbed the Hall of the Very Good. Put the team together off the top of my head and figured if I won a couple games in the series I'd be doing OK. My guys won it 4-2, making me wonder just how slight the difference in talent is between them that's in and them that's knocking on the door
As for the builders, my pick is Herb Carnegie. The pioneer of the famed Future Aces program who has been a fixture for hockey in Quebec for decades. I'd love to see Junior A icon Dwight McMillan get inducted (he just joined HHOFer Brian Kilrea among the only junior coaches to win 1,000 games) but I think Carnegie deserves it more.[/QUOTE]
Grew up on tales of Herb Carnegie from my father, who saw him play in Shawinigan and was as thrilled to meet him a few years ago as I was to meet any of the Hall of Famers I've been lucky enough to chat with. He and Jean Beliveau are the only two guys that absolutely nobody has anything negative to say about. He was heavily promoted for induction last year by a number of admirers but didn't get the needed votes. wasn't the first time his name came up but I'm afraid that, for all his contributions, a role model both in hockey and in the real world, the fact that he didn't play in the NHL will be the big impediment to his enshrinement although nothing'd make me happier than to see this statement made inoperative.
Badger Bob
Registered User
Housley didn't even attempt to check Richer. He just stood there and watched. It was symbolic.
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