HF's Team Board Mock Draft

[Retire91]

i dont see too many posters expecting KH to trade for trouba who're being honest with themselves.

as for young proven top pairing nhl dmen league wide their are but a handful(subban, doughty, karlsson, hedman, oel), so we should stop using hyperbole as a group as a scare tactic

that said, their are dmen who're rumoured to be available who we could trade for and who would not cost larkin or mrazek such as vatanen, fowler, shatty, myers, edler, brodin, jaybo among others. Now these are the names the "insiders" have thrown out there as of late and are types of dmen we could trade for

we as red wing fans MUST stop right now with this theory that if its not an elite franchise level dman why bother. I know how and why it started, lidstrom, but the chances we ever see another such dmen or even one half as good in our uniform anytime in the next decade or more is 0%.

once we accept that truth our expectations will come back down to reality and we can go about steadily improving the team

It makes sense but at some point the team is going to need a top D man. For the D that you mention if they don't cost Larkin or Mrazek they are going to cost picks which is going to take the team further away from having a top D prospect.

People need to face the fact that the Red Wings do not have excess assets to invest in a trade for D. Trading for D is going to be a lateral move because the assets that are moved for a D are going to open up other holes that need to be filled. The situation is a mess and correcting it without utilizing the draft as a primary tool is just going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul over and over and over again.

If the redwings are struggling to deveklop D then the solution needs to be to fix the development or scouting, not to stop drafting D. Ken Holland is not a trade winner, any trades he makes are going to possibly fix the D, but set the team back in other areas just like Kyle Quincey.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

i dont see too many posters expecting KH to trade for trouba who're being honest with themselves.

as for young proven top pairing nhl dmen league wide their are but a handful(subban, doughty, karlsson, hedman, oel), so we should stop using hyperbole as a group as a scare tactic

that said, their are dmen who're rumoured to be available who we could trade for and who would not cost larkin or mrazek such as vatanen, fowler, shatty, myers, edler, brodin, jaybo among others. Now these are the names the "insiders" have thrown out there as of late and are types of dmen we could trade for

we as red wing fans MUST stop right now with this theory that if its not an elite franchise level dman why bother. I know how and why it started, lidstrom, but the chances we ever see another such dmen or even one half as good in our uniform anytime in the next decade or more is 0%.

once we accept that truth our expectations will come back down to reality and we can go about steadily improving the team[/QUOTE

I could care less about players rumored to be available. Rumors are just that, rumors. I know that a player is realistically available when he has been moved, not a second before that. Just about everyone in the NHL should technically "be available." The question is at what price is a certain player available.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It makes sense but at some point the team is going to need a top D man. For the D that you mention if they don't cost Larkin or Mrazek they are going to cost picks which is going to take the team further away from having a top D prospect.

People need to face the fact that the Red Wings do not have excess assets to invest in a trade for D. Trading for D is going to be a lateral move because the assets that are moved for a D are going to open up other holes that need to be filled. The situation is a mess and correcting it without utilizing the draft as a primary tool is just going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul over and over and over again.

If the redwings are struggling to deveklop D then the solution needs to be to fix the development or scouting, not to stop drafting D. Ken Holland is not a trade winner, any trades he makes are going to possibly fix the D, but set the team back in other areas just like Kyle Quincey.

1. didnt we just trade a 3rd rd pick for a depth prospect? i may be wrong but if we did and most people seem ok with doing so then i dont see the problem trading a draft pick as part of a pckg for a nhl dman

2. none of those dmen i suggested(those who're rumoured to be available) would cost a nyquist plus a 1st plus

3. we do have excess assets in fact because we have too many of the same types of players, in fact, the problem is actually blocking some of potential future assets from gaining valuable nhl ice time and experience(or will this upcoming season)

4. i agree with your last point and i will add we should be selling off some assets who we dont need or plan to keep long term for more draft picks(i am talking smith, jurco, pulkinnen, sproul, howard) as best as we can for WHATEVER return we can get

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

i dont see too many posters expecting KH to trade for trouba who're being honest with themselves.

as for young proven top pairing nhl dmen league wide their are but a handful(subban, doughty, karlsson, hedman, oel), so we should stop using hyperbole as a group as a scare tactic

that said, their are dmen who're rumoured to be available who we could trade for and who would not cost larkin or mrazek such as vatanen, fowler, shatty, myers, edler, brodin, jaybo among others. Now these are the names the "insiders" have thrown out there as of late and are types of dmen we could trade for

we as red wing fans MUST stop right now with this theory that if its not an elite franchise level dman why bother. I know how and why it started, lidstrom, but the chances we ever see another such dmen or even one half as good in our uniform anytime in the next decade or more is 0%.

once we accept that truth our expectations will come back down to reality and we can go about steadily improving the team[/QUOTE

I could care less about players rumored to be available. Rumors are just that, rumors. I know that a player is realistically available when he has been moved, not a second before that. Just about everyone in the NHL should technically "be available." The question is at what price is a certain player available.

unless you're a NHL GM or in that said GM's inner circle, then rumours from credible(the most) sources are ALL one has to go on

players are available all the time and not only when a exact price has been meet and the reasons for that availability are countless

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

unless you're a NHL GM or in that said GM's inner circle, then rumours from credible(the most) sources are ALL one has to go on

players are available all the time and not only when a exact price has been meet and the reasons for that availability are countless

How do you know this unless you are an NHL GM or in the inner circle of an NHL GM?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

How do you know this unless you are an NHL GM or in the inner circle of an NHL GM?

because players are traded, both the ones fans have heard about as being available and the ones that catch everyone off guard

that dosent mean EVERY player is available ALL the time but that players are available around the league all the time for one reason or another

 

[Retire91]

1. didnt we just trade a 3rd rd pick for a depth prospect? i may be wrong but if we did and most people seem ok with doing so then i dont see the problem trading a draft pick as part of a pckg for a nhl dman

2. none of those dmen i suggested(those who're rumoured to be available) would cost a nyquist plus a 1st plus

3. we do have excess assets in fact because we have too many of the same types of players, in fact, the problem is actually blocking some of potential future assets from gaining valuable nhl ice time and experience(or will this upcoming season)

4. i agree with your last point and i will add we should be selling off some assets who we dont need or plan to keep long term for more draft picks(i am talking smith, jurco, pulkinnen, sproul, howard) as best as we can for WHATEVER return we can get

Seems reasonable, when I say Detroit does not have excess assets I guess its not entirely true but might be true in the context of what I meant. They do not have excess assets in the sense of pulling in top D prospects. Like having an extra number 1 center or even a number 2 center or goalie. What Detroit has excess of are small skilled forwards or forwards with potential and D that have not lived up to their hype. If a team out there is willing to take a handful of those assets without needing to add valuable picks I would make those trades for d that can play minutes on the second pairing with some top pairing potential. I feel like that is where the team should be building so starting to collect those assets would be good as long as Holland doesn't overpay.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Seems reasonable, when I say Detroit does not have excess assets I guess its not entirely true but might be true in the context of what I meant. They do not have excess assets in the sense of pulling in top D prospects. Like having an extra number 1 center or even a number 2 center or goalie. What Detroit has excess of are small skilled forwards or forwards with potential and D that have not lived up to their hype. If a team out there is willing to take a handful of those assets without needing to add valuable picks I would make those trades for d that can play minutes on the second pairing with some top pairing potential. I feel like that is where the team should be building so starting to collect those assets would be good as long as Holland doesn't overpay.

i agree

proven young top pairing dmen are rarely moved let alone available and if they were, we dont have what it takes(ie ryan johansen)

but we do have what it takes to add a vatanen or shattenkirk or fowler or myers even without destroying our own future

if the demand was indeed a 1st rd pick plus plus then yes i would walk away

 

[TNigs]

When on earth was Smith ever supposed to be a sure fire top pairing defensemen? He was drafted 27th overall. Oh, and remind us again how many 1st round picks the Wings have wasted on players who "can't develop into a top pairing guys" in the last 20 years.

When hf had Smitty at a 8.0C and he had 52 pts in 42 games as a junior at Wisconsin.

Let's go back 25 years, you know, because of the streak...

93 Anders Eriksson
94 Yan Golubovsky
95 Maxim Kuznetsov
96 Jesse Wallin
97 No First
98 Jiri Fischer
99 No First
00 Niklas Kronwall
01 No First
02 No First
03 No First
04 No First
05 Jakub Kindl
06 No First
07 Brendan Smith
09 No First
11 No First
12 No First

So in 25 years they drafted 8 dmen, 6 forawrds and 1 goalie. Kronwall in the only dman that turned out to be a legit 1st pairing D, for a couple years. Fischer looked promising but he's another bust.

I'm saying I don't want another Yan Golubovsky.

 

[njx9]

How is Jiri Fischer a bust? Either you forgot why he left hockey, or you have a downright bizarre definition of 'bust'. Either way, I have a hard time understanding how you think the Wings will ever have an NHL-quality defense, if you don't want to bother drafting any players for it.

Further, I'd note that, of the defensemen the Wings drafted in the first, Eriksson eventually brought back Chelios. Golubovsky brought back Larionov. Kuznetsov brought back Schneider. Fischer was on track to be a top 4 guy before his heart attack, and Kronwall was a solid 2D for most of the last decade. I'd take every single one of those outcomes with our first this year without a second of hesitation.

 

[Frk It]

When hf had Smitty at a 8.0C and he had 52 pts in 42 games as a junior at Wisconsin.

Let's go back 25 years, you know, because of the streak...

93 Anders Eriksson
94 Yan Golubovsky
95 Maxim Kuznetsov
96 Jesse Wallin
97 No First
98 Jiri Fischer
99 No First
00 Niklas Kronwall
01 No First
02 No First
03 No First
04 No First
05 Jakub Kindl
06 No First
07 Brendan Smith
09 No First
11 No First
12 No First

So in 25 years they drafted 8 dmen, 6 forawrds and 1 goalie. Kronwall in the only dman that turned out to be a legit 1st pairing D, for a couple years. Fischer looked promising but he's another bust.

I'm saying I don't want another Yan Golubovsky.

You realize that we had a different Scouting Director and pretty much entirely different set of scouts currently from the guys who compiled most of this list, right? We hired Tyler Wright in 2013, and most of our scouts that made these picks went to Dallas with Nill. So entirely new group now, FYI.

Again, giving up on drafting defenseman because we have failed at it in the past, while currently being our biggest need (by far), just defies logic...

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

When hf had Smitty at a 8.0C and he had 52 pts in 42 games as a junior at Wisconsin.

Let's go back 25 years, you know, because of the streak...

93 Anders Eriksson
94 Yan Golubovsky
95 Maxim Kuznetsov
96 Jesse Wallin
97 No First
98 Jiri Fischer
99 No First
00 Niklas Kronwall
01 No First
02 No First
03 No First
04 No First
05 Jakub Kindl
06 No First
07 Brendan Smith
09 No First
11 No First
12 No First

So in 25 years they drafted 8 dmen, 6 forawrds and 1 goalie. Kronwall in the only dman that turned out to be a legit 1st pairing D, for a couple years. Fischer looked promising but he's another bust.

I'm saying I don't want another Yan Golubovsky.

I did not realize that we have had the same general manager, same amateur scouting staff, same minor league coaches and same minor league affiliates for the last 25 years. It is also good to know that nothing has changed in the scouting of junior-aged players in the last 25 years.

Just for fun, why don't you let us know how many top-pairing defensemen the average NHL team has drafted and developed with first-round picks over the last 25 years. Detroit's success rate means very little in a vacuum.

Oh, and seeing as we haven't drafted any first-line centers with first-round draft picks in the last 25 years, we probably shouldn't waste first-round picks on centers either.

 

[waltdetroit]

nevermind

 

[TNigs]

What I'm saying is we are better at drafting forwards. You go BPA in the first round, you don't draft for need, like the NFL, because rarely will a player be ready for the big club right away, especially where we are drafting. Don't reach for a dman just because the defense sucks. If they have a center ranked higher, pick him. Quality dmen are found in the second round very often.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

What I'm saying is we are better at drafting forwards. You go BPA in the first round, you don't draft for need, like the NFL, because rarely will a player be ready for the big club right away, especially where we are drafting. Don't reach for a dman just because the defense sucks. If they have a center ranked higher, pick him. Quality dmen are found in the second round very often.

This is true. If someone Keller or Jost are on the board when Detroit picks, I'd go for it over a defenseman.

 

[19 for president]

The wings development system hasn't really changed in the past 15 years and they have been terrible at developing dmen. Only Fischer and Kronner have looked consistently like top 4 dmen, and Fischer went directly to the NHL and Kronner only played in the AHL due to the lockout.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

This is true. If someone Keller or Jost are on the board when Detroit picks, I'd go for it over a defenseman.

Of course, if either of those two are still on the board at 16, it will be because the draft has been struck by a meteor, the entire league's leadership has met a fiery demise, and the draft timer is on auto, timing out pick by pick.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The wings development system hasn't really changed in the past 15 years and they have been terrible at developing dmen. Only Fischer and Kronner have looked consistently like top 4 dmen, and Fischer went directly to the NHL and Kronner only played in the AHL due to the lockout.

Too bad about Fischer. He still could play couldn't he?

 

[njx9]

The wings development system hasn't really changed in the past 15 years and they have been terrible at developing dmen.

Which kind of happens when you never use top picks at the position (or, alternately, when you just never have top picks at all).

I dunno. People want to complain about Kindl and Smith, but sometimes you miss in the draft. It doesn't mean you should abandon ship (not that I'm suggesting you, specifically, are saying we should), but it would be great if the team would actually ask why our blueline is utterly bereft of homegrown talent, and then try to actually address it.

Grabbing 500 centers and hoping that one is good enough trade bait for the team to use to get an actual defenseman seems like a bit of a fool's errand... I mean, for all of the talk about Shattenkirk, and as much as I like him and think he'd tremendously improve the team, it's not like he's a true 1D or an elite D in the NHL. We're never going to get one of those if everyone is too gun shy to attempt it because of that one time we drafted Kindl. And for all of our "vaunted" ability to draft forwards, we still *might* have found a single player, in the same time span, who could take over as first or second line center next year.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Of course, if either of those two are still on the board at 16, it will be because the draft has been struck by a meteor, the entire league's leadership has met a fiery demise, and the draft timer is on auto, timing out pick by pick.

Ahhh, wouldn't it be nice?

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Too bad about Fischer. He still could play couldn't he?

Jiri's only 35 this year. He'd be rounding out his career like Kronner, but I really believe if he'd had a healthy career we'd have won another cup before Lidstrom retired.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Jiri's only 35 this year. He'd be rounding out his career like Kronner, but I really believe if he'd had a healthy career we'd have won another cup before Lidstrom retired.

If not for our bad luck, we would have probably won 4-5 more cups in the last twenty years. Kozlov, Konstantinov, Grigorenko, Fischer all suffered major events that ended or changed their careers.

If we had Fischer in the lineup I think we win cups in 2007 and 2009.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

If not for our bad luck, we would have probably won 4-5 more cups in the last twenty years. Kozlov, Konstantinov, Grigorenko, Fischer all suffered major events that ended or changed their careers.

If we had Fischer in the lineup I think we win cups in 2007 and 2009.

3peat baby. Especially with no cap. Possibly 2013 as well