HF's Team Board Mock Draft

[Frk It]

We don't have time wait defenceman to pan out. Stockpile forwards and trade some of them for mor proven defencemen.

That's ultimate best bulding plan for us right now. We need a leading defenceman, who is older than Larkin/Mantha/AA to get organizational peak with "better timing".

Our future 1st D should be ~Mrazek aged. Then eveything would look great.

It won't hurt to draft a kid D also, but I see that more as a trade piece for that same need, for more proven defenceman.

Drafting McAvoy and sending him for Shattenkirk could be one scenario.

Khan recently said that teams want Larkin to make the type of trade you are talking about, and Holland's not going to part with him.

I don't think Svechnikov/Tatar/Nyquist have enough trade value to make the type of trade you are talking about, or Holland would have traded one by now.

I've been hearing for a few years now on here how we can just package a few extra forwards for a defenseman... But it's 2016 and our defense is as bad as ever. So I'll believed it when I see it, and until then draft a damn defenseman or two in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Retire91]

Khan recently said that teams want Larkin to make the type of trade you are talking about, and Holland's not going to part with him.

I don't think Svechnikov/Tatar/Nyquist have enough trade value to make the type of trade you are talking about, or Holland would have traded one by now.

I've been hearing for a few years now on here how we can just package a few extra forwards for a defenseman... But it's 2016 and our defense is as bad as ever. So I'll believed it when I see it, and until then draft a damn defenseman or two in the first 2 rounds.

Yeah its like a broken record. Tartar Nyquist + Jurco or something like that for D for the last 2-3 years. Just not going to happen. Everyone is going to want Larkin or Mrazek and probably Mantha and the wings don't have enough talent to send those guys away unless its for the cream of the crop young guaranteed #1 defenseman. If Holland is going to trade he should send some of these assets of for first and second round draft picks and load this team up on D prospects. The sooner the better.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Khan recently said that teams want Larkin to make the type of trade you are talking about, and Holland's not going to part with him.

I don't think Svechnikov/Tatar/Nyquist have enough trade value to make the type of trade you are talking about, or Holland would have traded one by now.

I've been hearing for a few years now on here how we can just package a few extra forwards for a defenseman... But it's 2016 and our defense is as bad as ever. So I'll believed it when I see it, and until then draft a damn defenseman or two in the first 2 rounds.

Well, we can just package a few forwards for a defenseman.

Nyquist + Tatar for Bouwmeester
or
Mantha + Pulkkinen + Smith for Phaneuf

We would just reamed really really bad on the value and/or be trading for a guy that people here don't want.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah its like a broken record. Tartar Nyquist + Jurco or something like that for D for the last 2-3 years. Just not going to happen. Everyone is going to want Larkin or Mrazek and probably Mantha and the wings don't have enough talent to send those guys away unless its for the cream of the crop young guaranteed #1 defenseman. If Holland is going to trade he should send some of these assets of for first and second round draft picks and load this team up on D prospects. The sooner the better.

No. I think he just needs to bite on one of the many deals for a proven NHL defenseman. If he just loads the boat with D prospects, they have to pan out or we will suck for a very long time. I mean, he had a couple 2nd round D in 2011 that we are writing off as complete garbage now. Get a proven asset, even if it's overpayment, even if it's not perfect. Get your house in order at the NHL level and then maybe you can bring up kids to be on your bottom pairing and build from there.

Going all young kids is the wrong path.

 

[Frk It]

Oh, and the "it's going to take long for them to develop" argument is trash too.

Maatta made it to the league in 1 year. Mueller made it in 1 year. Ceci made it in 1 year. Shea Theodore made it in 2 years.

All guys taken in the 15-30 range.

This 5 or 6 year time line is only it we draft a scrub. Good teams are turning these around in short order.

Kids like McAvoy and Fabbro are already close to 200 lbs, they wouldn't even be that far away.

 

[njx9]

We need a leading defenceman, who is older than Larkin/Mantha/AA to get organizational peak with "better timing".

How, specifically, do you think we're going to acquire one? They don't generally get traded, and they certainly don't get traded for the B-level forwards we have as trade bait. Are you ok with throwing Larkin out for a pretty good (but not elite) D? I'd guess it's just as likely we hit on a solid defender as it is we get another Larkin with a mid-1st pick.

I dunno, it just seems like sticking your head in the sand because drafting and developing your team is hard. A 5 year wait (which seems like a sort of extreme over-estimate) on a defenseman hardly puts Larkin or Mrazek on the retirement bench. I'm pretty sure that's perfectly in their 'prime' timeframe.

I dunno. I don't get the reticence. And I really don't get the belief that we have anything of value (that isn't Larkin) to trade for a decent defenseman (as much as I'd like Shattenkirk and really hope that the Tatar/Svechnikov or 1st discussions are reflective of real life).

 

[Retire91]

No. I think he just needs to bite on one of the many deals for a proven NHL defenseman. If he just loads the boat with D prospects, they have to pan out or we will suck for a very long time. I mean, he had a couple 2nd round D in 2011 that we are writing off as complete garbage now. Get a proven asset, even if it's overpayment, even if it's not perfect. Get your house in order at the NHL level and then maybe you can bring up kids to be on your bottom pairing and build from there.

Going all young kids is the wrong path.

Getting anyone serviceable is going to be a lateral move. So you brought in a number 1-2 D, now you don't have Larkin and Seeahan is your number 1 center for the future. What now? People think you can't build through the draft because Holland has spent the last 5-10 years not building through the draft. Sure we lucked out and hit a few deep round home runs but that can't be an ongoing strategy. At some point you gotta pay the piper. Maybe if Holland actually wins a trade in the last 8 years I would feel different.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

No. I think he just needs to bite on one of the many deals for a proven NHL defenseman. If he just loads the boat with D prospects, they have to pan out or we will suck for a very long time. I mean, he had a couple 2nd round D in 2011 that we are writing off as complete garbage now. Get a proven asset, even if it's overpayment, even if it's not perfect. Get your house in order at the NHL level and then maybe you can bring up kids to be on your bottom pairing and build from there.

Going all young kids is the wrong path.

Where are all of these deals you are talking about and since when are trades unilateral transactions? We don't need proven NHL defensemen, we need good, young proven NHL defensemen. If this team has any ambition of competing for a cup without bottoming out, they need to acquire not one, but two defensemen who are better than anything currently on our roster. Look what CBJ had to give up for Seth Jones. There are plenty of teams in the league lacking top pairing defensemen. You don't exactly see them trading packages of excess forward depth for proven defensemen.

The demand for good defensemen will always be far greater than the available supply of good defensemen. This is why you need to draft and develop them.

 

[TNigs]

Wings can't develop dmen. Smith was supposed to be a sure fire top pairing dman. Oulette, Sproul, Kindl all had potential, Wings brass tries and fails way too often to waste another 1st round pick on a player they can't develop into a top pairing guy.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

We don't have time wait defenceman to pan out. Stockpile forwards and trade some of them for mor proven defencemen.

That's ultimate best bulding plan for us right now. We need a leading defenceman, who is older than Larkin/Mantha/AA to get organizational peak with "better timing".

Our future 1st D should be ~Mrazek aged. Then eveything would look great.

It won't hurt to draft a kid D also, but I see that more as a trade piece for that same need, for more proven defenceman.

Drafting McAvoy and sending him for Shattenkirk could be one scenario.

time?

time is something WE DO have

anyone who thinks we're winning anything anytime soon is off their rocker

we're not a good enough team to expect to challenge for anything

sure we dont mind trying to make the playoffs and hope for 3 or more home games but we all need to accept this fact, the DRW are not planning the parade route anytime before 2025

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Wings can't develop dmen. Smith was supposed to be a sure fire top pairing dman. Oulette, Sproul, Kindl all had potential, Wings brass tries and fails way too often to waste another 1st round pick on a player they can't develop into a top pairing guy.

When on earth was Smith ever supposed to be a sure fire top pairing defensemen? He was drafted 27th overall. Oh, and remind us again how many 1st round picks the Wings have wasted on players who "can't develop into a top pairing guys" in the last 20 years.

 

[Frk It]

Wings can't develop dmen. Smith was supposed to be a sure fire top pairing dman. Oulette, Sproul, Kindl all had potential, Wings brass tries and fails way too often to waste another 1st round pick on a player they can't develop into a top pairing guy.

Somehow I feel like giving up on drafting defenseman altogether is NOT the answer to the problem...

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Somehow I feel like giving up on drafting defenseman altogether is NOT the answer to the problem...

well we could try and draft small european forwards late in the draft, wait until they're in their mid twenties then try and trade them for a good young dman, oh wait, if they have a down year their value drops so better hold off, oh wait, value has gone up but nobody is available, oh wait, only dmen available will cost us larkin plus mantha plus svechnikov, oh wait, we dont make trades on any weekday with a vowel in its spelling, oh wait, oh wait, oh wait...


yah that sums up way too many posters on this boards thinking

 

[Ezekial]

yah that sums up way too many posters on this boards thinking

I think more people's thinking is geared toward: "I can't believe Holland is unwilling to send <insert underwhelming package> for <insert highly sought after/unavailable target>"

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Somehow I feel like giving up on drafting defenseman altogether is NOT the answer to the problem...

Right? It seems like a paradoxical solution. It's like saying we have to solve starvation by importing food, because actually growing the food would take too long. The minute that imported food runs out, they still aren't growing their own, and you're right back where you started. It would be the same thing with the Wings.

Give the Red Wings a defenseman, you rebuild a team. Teach the Red Wings to draft their own defensemen, you rebuild a franchise.

 

[Reddwit]

I understand going BPA... To a degree.

I just don't know how some of you think our defense will improve, without ever putting a precedence on drafting defense.

Like are we going to plant a defenseman tree? Or start cloning people? Like, I don't get it...

The first round is typically what, like 2/3 or 3/4 centers? Odds are with BPA you're going to just keep getting forwards, because there's more forwards that get picked.

Very much agree, particularly because the BPA forward is only marginally better than the BPA defenseman right now.

 

[Reddwit]

Khan recently said that teams want Larkin to make the type of trade you are talking about, and Holland's not going to part with him.

I don't think Svechnikov/Tatar/Nyquist have enough trade value to make the type of trade you are talking about, or Holland would have traded one by now.

I've been hearing for a few years now on here how we can just package a few extra forwards for a defenseman... But it's 2016 and our defense is as bad as ever. So I'll believed it when I see it, and until then draft a damn defenseman or two in the first 2 rounds.

Sorry, but this just seems like such a crock to me. Not trying to shoot the messenger or anything, and I agree with your point about drafting defenseman but, really...Teams want a center, one of the fastest players in the league, who is drawing comparisons to Jonathan Toews, and has another ELC year to go, who has good size, two-way play, and character...for a team's #2/3 defenseman?

That is just such *****. Yeah, teams are asking for Larkin - who wouldn't do their due diligence by asking for him? - but how much of that is serious demand? I think that can be answered by how many of those guys actually get traded. Like...can someone please name the last time a kid like that got traded when it wasn't the team that owned him who was souring on him (a la Seguin)? Usually due to character issues or contract demands? I can't think of a single time it has happened when the organization that held *insert young, impending star's name here* wasn't the one who initiated the trade.

It just doesn't happen. This is just the print/traditional media sitting in Holland's back pocket, hawking the latest don't-hold-your-breath rumors to set the bar as low as possible.

 

[Frk It]

Sorry, but this just seems like such a crock to me. Not trying to shoot the messenger or anything, and I agree with your point about drafting defenseman but, really...Teams want a center, one of the fastest players in the league, who is drawing comparisons to Jonathan Toews, and has another ELC year to go, who has good size, two-way play, and character...for a team's #2/3 defenseman?

That is just such *****. Yeah, teams are asking for Larkin - who wouldn't do their due diligence by asking for him? - but how much of that is serious demand? I think that can be answered by how many of those guys actually get traded. Like...can someone please name the last time a kid like that got traded when it wasn't the team that owned him who was souring on him (a la Seguin)? Usually due to character issues or contract demands? I can't think of a single time it has happened when the organization that held *insert young, impending star's name here* wasn't the one who initiated the trade.

It just doesn't happen. This is just the print/traditional media sitting in Holland's back pocket, hawking the latest don't-hold-your-breath rumors to set the bar as low as possible.

Hopefully he's just posturing to set the bar low for Holland.

But I also don't know how much trade value our assets outside of Larkin genuinely have.

I think Nyquist and Tatar's stock had to take somewhat of a hit, right?

 

[Reddwit]

Hopefully he's just posturing to set the bar low for Holland.

But I also don't know how much trade value our assets outside of Larkin genuinely have.

I think Nyquist and Tatar's stock had to take somewhat of a hit, right?

Nyquist, sure, because we probably could've gotten a pretty penny for that sucker prior to this season.

Tatar though? I don't agree. Guy gets points for minutes like nobody's business and makes $2.75M. Thats what #5/6 FA defenseman make. That's what #10 forwards make. That's not what 20 goal scorers make. Add that to the fact that sub-5'11" guys almost never make big bucks unless coming directly off of huge seasons, and Tatar looks like a cap honey if you ask me. (Either he's coming off a great season and you got great value, or you're undercutting his value.) He's still RFA after his last $2.75M year expires. I don't buy for a second that that boy doesn't have cap additive value on his trade-value side, and all of the teams looking to sell defenseman are doing so for what? Cap issues.

All of this "oh, Nyquist and Tatar don't have value because they had down seasons" talk is table-talk if you ask me. If I'm negotiating with Holland, and he's putting these guys on the table, you're damn right I'm going to say "hey now, these guys look like they're trending down. They aren't that great..." yadda, yadda. But I'm also probably looking at Edmonton and saying "hey, this Eberle/Nugent-Hopkins guy is trending down...and he makes a boatload...and I really question his competitiveness...and I really don't like the system he's grown up in..." Anything less, and the Wings would have half a dozen more assets in the organization because the GM'ing standard would be so pathetic.

Like...yeah...of course Nyquist and Tatar don't have as much value as they did coming off of seasons where they owned it. (Then we'd be hearing stories about how Holland doesn't want to trade Nyquist/Tatar because their production relative to value is so high) That doesn't mean someone else is going to pony up an asset that has more value, or that X GM is going to back down from taking them because they aren't shined up and ready to go like they were last season...

 

[Henkka]

Khan recently said that teams want Larkin to make the type of trade you are talking about, and Holland's not going to part with him.

I don't think Svechnikov/Tatar/Nyquist have enough trade value to make the type of trade you are talking about, or Holland would have traded one by now.

There just haven't been a right deal on the table. Now there could be, once again, St. Louis Blues are going into cap problems and Shatty could be available. Their 1D is Pietrangelo and Parayko is cheap youngster ready for the TOP4 RD job behind Pietro.

St. Louis would prefer cheap valued contracts like Tatar to contend even without Shatty. But of course, we need to add more.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Hopefully he's just posturing to set the bar low for Holland.

But I also don't know how much trade value our assets outside of Larkin genuinely have.

I think Nyquist and Tatar's stock had to take somewhat of a hit, right?

I mean alittle. Teams are still gonna take them. Especially Tatar.

You can still get a good dman with nyquist or Tatar alone if you get a dumb gm. Or In a package not adding much

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I think more people's thinking is geared toward: "I can't believe Holland is unwilling to send <insert underwhelming package> for <insert highly sought after/unavailable target>"

so you're saying and let me be sure this is correct, that after 5 years of "rebuilding on the fly" ken holland has attained one, possibly two valuable tradeable commodity(larkin and mrazek)?

if thats the case he has failed miserably and should be fired as EVERY team in the league in the last half decade have brought in to their organization more than two valuable tradeable assets

 

[Ezekial]

so you're saying and let me be sure this is correct, that after 5 years of "rebuilding on the fly" ken holland has attained one, possibly two valuable tradeable commodity(larkin and mrazek)?

if thats the case he has failed miserably and should be fired as EVERY team in the league in the last half decade have brought in to their organization more than two valuable tradeable assets

Tradeable commodities? No he has acquired more than 2 of those. Being tradeable and being enough for a young proven top pairing NHL player are different things.
Mantha, Svech, Tats, Nyquist, AA are all tradeable assets and two could be packaged in a trade (+ a pick) for a realistic impact player(meh, better than what we have currently). But, for instance Trouba gets thrown around because he's young and local - Winnepeg should have no interest trading for what we can offer and it's unknown if he's available.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Tradeable commodities? No he has acquired more than 2 of those. Being tradeable and being enough for a young proven top pairing NHL player are different things.
Mantha, Svech, Tats, Nyquist, AA are all tradeable assets and two could be packaged in a trade (+ a pick) for a realistic impact player(meh, better than what we have currently). But, for instance Trouba gets thrown around because he's young and local - Winnepeg should have no interest trading for what we can offer and it's unknown if he's available.

i dont see too many posters expecting KH to trade for trouba who're being honest with themselves.

as for young proven top pairing nhl dmen league wide their are but a handful(subban, doughty, karlsson, hedman, oel), so we should stop using hyperbole as a group as a scare tactic

that said, their are dmen who're rumoured to be available who we could trade for and who would not cost larkin or mrazek such as vatanen, fowler, shatty, myers, edler, brodin, jaybo among others. Now these are the names the "insiders" have thrown out there as of late and are types of dmen we could trade for

we as red wing fans MUST stop right now with this theory that if its not an elite franchise level dman why bother. I know how and why it started, lidstrom, but the chances we ever see another such dmen or even one half as good in our uniform anytime in the next decade or more is 0%.

once we accept that truth our expectations will come back down to reality and we can go about steadily improving the team

 

[Ezekial]

i dont see too many posters expecting KH to trade for trouba who're being honest with themselves.

as for young proven top pairing nhl dmen league wide their are but a handful(subban, doughty, karlsson, hedman, oel), so we should stop using hyperbole as a group as a scare tactic

that said, their are dmen who're rumoured to be available who we could trade for and who would not cost larkin or mrazek such as vatanen, fowler, shatty, myers, edler, brodin, jaybo among others. Now these are the names the "insiders" have thrown out there as of late and are types of dmen we could trade for

we as red wing fans MUST stop right now with this theory that if its not an elite franchise level dman why bother. I know how and why it started, lidstrom, but the chances we ever see another such dmen or even one half as good in our uniform anytime in the next decade or more is 0%.

once we accept that truth our expectations will come back down to reality and we can go about steadily improving the team

I agree with all of this.