Line Combos: HFPens Decides - 3rd Defense Pairing

Who do you want on the third defense pair? Select two.


  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
A) We have no space on the left side. Rutherford acquired Matheson for no reason. Riikola's too good to be eating nachos. I value players abilities over which side they play. Good players can adjust over time. If the combo doesn't work then you swap their sides and see if that yields better results.
B) He is being insulated by playing with a responsible player like Riikola in this scenario. I'm sorry so many people on this board fail to see how rarely Riikola gets scored on. But I see it.
C) I never said we sit Pettersson. This poll boxed me in. My 2nd pairing is Pettersson - Marino.

If you took a second to read my post (instead of jumping straight to passive-aggression) then you'd see I mentioned Ceci and Matheson being extras, unless they earned their spot with a great camp. So the natural conclusion there is Pettersson being on the 2nd pair. But as always, your priority is not to discuss but rather to get your rocks off by degrading others.

You're not following the method of this poll then. If you are voting for the 3rd pairing to be Riikola - POJ you are scratching Petts.

I had the same problem in the Rust thread where I voted for what I wanted versus what the question asks.

I find it odd you're willing and others are so willing to write off Matheson before likely ever seeing him play a game.
 
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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,163
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Vancouver, British Columbia
You're not following the method of this poll then. If you are voting for the 3rd pairing to be Riikola - POJ you are scratching Petts.

I had the same problem in the Zucker thread.
And why do I have to be boxed into pairings I don't want? Because the masses said something else?
Thought we were discussing our view of what the line-up should look like?
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
And why do I have to be boxed into pairings I don't want? Because the masses said something else?
Thought we were discussing our view of what the line-up should look like?

Current lineup as per HFPens:

Zucker (100%)-Crosby-Kapanen (77%)
Guentzel (66%)-Malkin-Rust (97%)
McCann (94%)-Blueger (67%)-Tanev (59%)
hhh-iii-jjj
lll

Dumoulin (100%)-Letang
Matheson (56%)-Marino
ooo-ppp
qqq-rrr

Jarry-DeSmith

Poll #9 - Who do you want on the third defense pairing? Select two.


Because that's the thread topic.
 
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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,163
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Vancouver, British Columbia
I find it odd you're willing and others are so willing to write off Matheson before likely ever seeing him play a game.
Third time I have to say this I guess. If Matheson outplays his competition he can have it. I'd prefer if he didn't get a spot just because of his contract though. And also I have faith in POJ. I think he can help us. I felt that way when he had a great camp here the first time, and he's coming off a strong year in the AHL. Additionally, Vellucci thinks very highly of him and will have some input here. He may just have a chance, especially with how often we're hurt. I like to think with the coaching changes that have been made, some of the favoritism will fade away. Maybe Reirden will just suggest the most able players to Sullivan? Bring back performance being the dictator.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,239
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Third time I have to say this I guess. If Matheson outplays his competition he can have it. I'd prefer if he didn't get a spot just because of his contract though. And also I have faith in POJ. I think he can help us. I felt that way when he had a great camp here the first time, and he's coming off a strong year in the AHL. Additionally, Vellucci thinks very highly of him and will have some input here. He may just have a chance, especially with how often we're hurt. I like to think with the coaching changes that have been made, some of the favoritism will fade away. Maybe Reirden will just suggest the most able players to Sullivan? Bring back performance being the dictator.

Matheson is a 20 minute defenseman in the NHL. He's already out played Riikola and POJ. No chance he has to "win a spot". That'd be asinine without even considering the contract.
 
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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,163
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Vancouver, British Columbia
Matheson is a 20 minute defenseman in the NHL. He's already out played Riikola and POJ. No chance he has to "win a spot". That'd be asinine without even considering the contract.
You draw such weird conclusions. Make it sound like coaches always make the correct line-up decisions. Should know better than that by now, having followed the Penguins the last few years.

Matheson is a 20 minute defenseman because he had a successful season at the end of his ELC in 2017-18, and got a massive contract that he can't live up to. In the same way that coaches felt obliged to play JJ and Schultz recently, Matheson was played too. They were hoping he'd find his game again. In 2018-19 he had 64 takeaways and, get this, 135 giveaways. Believe that was the most in the NHL. Those 27 point seasons look nice but the cost is grievous. He's a liability, unlike Riikola.

If he's as great as you suggest then Florida would never have traded him. He's in his prime years.
Just ask Panthers fans. They were celebrating after the trade for a reason.

Is it possible he turns it around here? Sure, I guess. Maybe Reirden can work some magic and with a more serious organization with higher expectations maybe he'll refocus and rejuvenate his career.

Am I expecting him to though? No. He has a serious carelessness problem, just like Letang. Problem is he doesn't provide half as much as Tanger apart from that. Almost always when a player has an extreme awareness issue like that, it can't be cured.

I actually agree with you that he won't have to win his spot like the rest. That's just what I would like to see. But it will probably be because he has the inside track with his contract. Rutherford looks stupid if they don't use him, even if Matheson's gutter trash in training camp.

I'm still disgusted we got rid of Hornqvist for a defenseman we didn't even need. Horny was scoring at a similar clip to his career averages. The goal scoring was actually above average. And he was doing that with a crappy PP.

Classic case of change for the sake of change.
 
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Night Shift

Registered User
Nov 3, 2014
9,807
4,562
Florida
You draw such weird conclusions. Make it sound like coaches always make the correct line-up decisions. Should know better than that by now, having followed the Penguins the last few years.

Matheson is a 20 minute defenseman because he had a successful season at the end of his ELC in 2017-18, and got a massive contract that he can't live up to. In the same way that coaches felt obliged to play JJ and Schultz recently, Matheson was played too. They were hoping he'd find his game again. In 2018-19 he had 64 takeaways and, get this, 135 giveaways. Believe that was the most in the NHL. Those 27 point seasons look nice but the cost is grievous. He's a liability, unlike Riikola.

If he's as great as you suggest then Florida would never have traded him. He's in his prime years.
Just ask Panthers fans. They were celebrating after the trade for a reason.

Is it possible he turns it around here? Sure, I guess. Maybe Reirden can work some magic and with a more serious organization with higher expectations maybe he'll refocus and rejuvenate his career.

Am I expecting him to though? No. He has a serious carelessness problem, just like Letang. Problem is he doesn't provide half as much as Tanger apart from that. Almost always when a player has an extreme awareness issue like that, it can't be cured.

I actually agree with you that he won't have to win his spot like the rest. That's just what I would like to see. But it will probably be because he has the inside track with his contract. Rutherford looks stupid if they don't use him, even if Matheson's gutter trash in training camp.

Take a deep breath. Breathe and relax.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,579
25,410
The idea that Matheson needs to prove he's not a liability when up against a guy who's never played in the NHL, and a guy who's yet to convince his coach he should be an NHL regular (or allowed anywhere near the PP) and has yet to shine in an equal role to the one Matheson has taken on, is an odd one to me. I can see a case for saying they should be in equal competition maybe, but that one is not to be trusted and the other two are? Not so much.
 

Randy Butternubs

Registered User
Mar 15, 2008
29,777
21,311
Morningside
Not to mention fast, good at sticking to his check, breaking up odd-man rushes and backdoor plays.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess I'll go with Riikola - Joseph.

Not a fan of wasting young talent, even if he's playing the opposite side. Not really interested in worrying about his development until he's 26 or whatever. He won't make any difference by then. It'll be too late. They need him now, while the Pens are still a playoff team.

I got no problems throwing Matheson or Ceci into the line-up if they have a great camp, but I'm skeptical.

I'd be up for almost all of the defenders trying out their offside in camp, pre-season, and at the beginning of the season.

And why do I have to be boxed into pairings I don't want? Because the masses said something else?
Thought we were discussing our view of what the line-up should look like?

Yes. Welcome to democracy. :laugh:

After the lineup is selected, I'll have a final thread showing the lineup and asking users how they'd have theirs.
 
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Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,239
74,494
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
You draw such weird conclusions. Make it sound like coaches always make the correct line-up decisions. Should know better than that by now, having followed the Penguins the last few years.

Matheson is a 20 minute defenseman because he had a successful season at the end of his ELC in 2017-18, and got a massive contract that he can't live up to. In the same way that coaches felt obliged to play JJ and Schultz recently, Matheson was played too. They were hoping he'd find his game again. In 2018-19 he had 64 takeaways and, get this, 135 giveaways. Believe that was the most in the NHL. Those 27 point seasons look nice but the cost is grievous. He's a liability, unlike Riikola.

If he's as great as you suggest then Florida would never have traded him. He's in his prime years.
Just ask Panthers fans. They were celebrating after the trade for a reason.

Is it possible he turns it around here? Sure, I guess. Maybe Reirden can work some magic and with a more serious organization with higher expectations maybe he'll refocus and rejuvenate his career.

Am I expecting him to though? No. He has a serious carelessness problem, just like Letang. Problem is he doesn't provide half as much as Tanger apart from that. Almost always when a player has an extreme awareness issue like that, it can't be cured.

I actually agree with you that he won't have to win his spot like the rest. That's just what I would like to see. But it will probably be because he has the inside track with his contract. Rutherford looks stupid if they don't use him, even if Matheson's gutter trash in training camp.

I'm still disgusted we got rid of Hornqvist for a defenseman we didn't even need. Horny was scoring at a similar clip to his career averages. The goal scoring was actually above average. And he was doing that with a crappy PP.

Classic case of change for the sake of change.

I mean, we made the change because this team’s focus is the playoffs where Hornqvist has 2 points in his last 9 “post season” games.

Malkin has a similar giveaway per 60 rate as Matheson. Giveaways were abundant on Florida. I don’t really care what he did in Florida at this point considering he showed some positives in his game and Florida’s defensively the worst team in the league across the board when Matheson did or did not play.
 

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