Hextall's Moves

[Lindberg]

It's interesting that the thing Hextall gets criticized for the most is not trusting in young players quickly enough, but when he makes 19 year old Nolan Patrick a top 9 center right away and it doesn't immediately pay dividends, he's given no leeway for that affecting the team negatively.

I don't see how this is a good point to make. You would literally have to be the worst NHL GM not to put Patrick at center in the NHL. He was basically the consensus #1 OA pick for years.

 

[thedjpd]

Incorrect. It's because we are rebuilding. Say it out loud. It's not a dirty word. Even if Hextall won't admit it publicly. That's clearly what he is doing.

And guess what? It's a good idea because that will drastically increase the odds of winnning a championship. Not just make the playoffs and pray we get lucky. You know who wins championships? Teams that went through rebuilds like Pittsburgh, LA, and Chicago.

Nobody said rebuilding was bad. Schenn is in his mid-20's. Would think he's a great age to be part of a rebuild.

Why are we still hanging on to Gudas, etc. then? Flip them as well. For a rebuilding team, we sure do play a lot of older players who are worse than the younger ones.

 

[Rebels57]

Incorrect. It's because we are rebuilding. Say it out loud. It's not a dirty word. Even if Hextall won't admit it publicly. That's clearly what he is doing.

And guess what? It's a good idea because that will drastically increase the odds of winnning a championship. Not just make the playoffs and pray we get lucky. You know who wins championships? Teams that went through rebuilds like Pittsburgh, LA, and Chicago.

I don't see how trading Schenn in his prime increases our odds of winning a championship.

It's made our PP worse and contributed to the demise of our middle 6.

It's a stretch to see it increases our odds.

All it did was hurt us in the short term in exchange for essentially 2 lottery tickets that might pay off in 3-5 years.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

i still maintain he was traded because they won the lottery. I will take Patrick and the 2 lottery tickets over Schenn.

 

[Stizzle]

I don't see how trading Schenn in his prime increases our odds of winning a championship.

It's made our PP worse and contributed to the demise of our middle 6.

It's a stretch to see it increases our odds.

All it did was hurt us in the short term in exchange for essentially 2 lottery tickets that might pay off in 3-5 years.

Who cares if it hurt our PP or depleted our middle 6th depth? I just said we are rebuilding. It doesn't matter what happens now. We are rebuilding. Why can't people accept this fact?

Best case scenario, Brayden Schenn will be on the door steps of free agency when we are ready to contend. He only has 2 years left on his deal after this year. Do you really think we would re-sign a 29 year old Schenn at that point to another big extension? No chance.

 

[Stizzle]

Nobody said rebuilding was bad. Schenn is in his mid-20's. Would think he's a great age to be part of a rebuild.

Why are we still hanging on to Gudas, etc. then? Flip them as well. For a rebuilding team, we sure do play a lot of older players who are worse than the younger ones.

No, as I outlined just above he is not at a great age. His free agency status would be a problem.

Yes, we do have crappy older players. But they are players on soon to be expiring deals. You don't see a trend with every stop gap vet Hexy has aquired? It's been clear as day.

 

[Striiker]

I don't see how trading Schenn in his prime increases our odds of winning a championship.

It's made our PP worse and contributed to the demise of our middle 6.

It's a stretch to see it increases our odds.

All it did was hurt us in the short term in exchange for essentially 2 lottery tickets that might pay off in 3-5 years.

I think you're getting too focused on Schenns short term success right now. It's not sustainable and it doesn't effect us anyway.

You didn't dislike the trade when it happened... in your own words:

That is just ridiculous.

Schenn was never a make or break player for our contending plans.

I'm amazed at how conservative people are with their expectations.

The Flyers can make a deep run as soon as 18-19.

And

I like that this move opens up a top 9 RW spot for Konecny.

It also opens up a top 9 LW spot, possibly for Rubstov in 18-19.

It opens up PP1 for Patrick and Lindblom

If Weal re-signs, he now has a top 9 spot this season

There is a lot more to this trade than the moving parts

I think id feel pretty good about it if STL didnt have the option to move the second 1st to 2019

So I think the real problem you're having with it (and the one I'm having too) is more that they didn't take advantage of the room it created and aren't using the young guys like they should. The problem is what they did after the trade, not the trade itself.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't see how this is a good point to make. You would literally have to be the worst NHL GM not to put Patrick at center in the NHL. He was basically the consensus #1 OA pick for years.

I agree that putting Patrick as a top 9 center was a no brainer, but where are the posts recognizing the fact that his rookie struggles are a big part of the team's lack of secondary scoring? If he was healthy and producing like the actual #1OA then the team would have significantly more goals and wins.

 

[Curufinwe]

I actually think they planned early on for Lindblom to make the team. After they traded Schenn, he was a name they kept mentioning as helping replace production. They were hyping him up like they usually don't do for prospects.

I love Lindblom, and I know he did okay in pre-season (you can point to Corsi, but who else led the Flyers? 39% Nolan Patrick. It's pre-season after all), but I had no issue with them sending him down in all honesty. I did see the issues: he was uncertain of his spacing and timing on/off puck, and he just didn't seem calm with the puck, bobbling it a lot. Everything felt rushed or tentative to make plays. People can point to those first 5 AHL games as being slightly snakebitten, and he was, but that issue was still there by my eye. It's definitely been improved as the season has gone on. I really do think he'll be up before the new year, so I'm not worried. I will complain as much as anyone, but Lindblom I regrettably understood.

And we know they have no issue waiving Read and benching Lehtera and Weise. So if they were more impressed by Lindblom's training camp there was a spot open for him. He might not have played every game, but like Sanheim he would not have been a regular healthy scratch.

 

[deadhead]

People forget that they tried Schenn at LW, C and RW, and at ES he was basically a "fail" everywhere but as the RW for Couts, and everyone who plays RW with Couts (Voracek, Konency and Schenn) looked good the last couple years. It's not that Schenn was a bad player, he just wasn't going to play center for this team in the forseeable future, and in two years with Vorobyev, MV, Rubtsov, Frost and ??? no one will notice he's gone. He had numerous opportunities to nail down the 2nd line center position, or even the 3rd line center position. With Voracek, Simmonds and Konency at RW, Schenn was superfulous.

Once Patrick gets healthy, and Lindblom comes up, the top 12 will be filled out, and any other additions will be upgrades or replacements (i.e. Leier, Raffl, this year, Filppula next year, Simmonds if he's traded).

 

[Ghosts Beer]

We got good value for Schenn, who was a RW on a team full of RWs
If Patrick was healthy we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
Next year, with Patrick, Vorobyev and Laughton down the middle, MV depth at C/RW, Rubtsov and hopefully Allison in the AHL, it'll be a moot point.

He's got 22 points in 19 games. And the Flyers have no secondary scoring. And I was no Schenn fan. And I like Frost. And I like having 2 firsts in this draft. But I think the Blues are pretty happy.

 

[Striiker]

And we know they have no issue waiving Read and benching Lehtera and Weise. So if they were more impressed by Lindblom's training camp there was a spot open for him. He might not have played every game, but like Sanheim he would not have been a regular healthy scratch.

Unless the plan was always for him to go down.

 

[Jtown]

i still maintain he was traded because they won the lottery. I will take Patrick and the 2 lottery tickets over Schenn.

what two lottery tickets?

 

[Striiker]

what two lottery tickets?

The two first round picks.

 

[TCTC]

i still maintain he was traded because they won the lottery. I will take Patrick and the 2 lottery tickets over Schenn.

To me Patrick and Schenn sounds better than Patrick and two very late 1sts.
I still think we shouldn't be trading for draft picks anymore. If you want to trade Schenn, make a player for player trade. Something that doesn't set us back a few years.

 

[hatcher]

To me Patrick and Schenn sounds better than Patrick and two very late 1sts.
I still think we shouldn't be trading for draft picks anymore. If you want to trade Schenn, make a player for player trade. Something that doesn't set us back a few years.

Way better and is only 24 and rugged.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, those late firsts are basically worthless.

Teams don't get good players late in the first round.

 

[deadhead]

A team that lacks speed should never trade a 3rd line center/RW for a draft pick to garner a center with exceptional speed and round out their lineup.
Just stick with what wasn't working.

 

[Striiker]

Also wouldn't notice Schenns absence as much if Simmonds wasn't shitting the bed.

This is what the team would look like without either of them. And Simmonds being MIA is hurting the PP more too.

 

[Rebels57]

So I think the real problem you're having with it (and the one I'm having too) is more that they didn't take advantage of the room it created and aren't using the young guys like they should. The problem is what they did after the trade, not the trade itself.

This is exactly right.

 

[hatcher]

Yeah, those late firsts are basically worthless.

Teams don't get good players late in the first round.

Not many are like G.

 

[Rebels57]

I agree that putting Patrick as a top 9 center was a no brainer, but where are the posts recognizing the fact that his rookie struggles are a big part of the team's lack of secondary scoring? If he was healthy and producing like the actual #1OA then the team would have significantly more goals and wins.

Did anyone actually expect that in his first 8 games, with surprisingly difficult minutes, with Dale Weise on his LW?

3 points in essentially 8 games (only played 4 minutes in his 9th game before the injury) isn't bad all things considered.

When he does come back, I hope he gets more than 50% ozone starts and faces 3rd and 4th lines slightly more often.

 

[BernieParent]

It would have taken the super-deluxe model crystal ball, but Giroux – Schenn – Voracek could have been as nice as what Schenn is doing in St. Louis. That would free up Couturier to lend his goal-increasing talents to Simmonds and (probably) Trigger. 3rd line would be Patrick / Filppula as C / LW with Konecny on RW. Then the Honey Bee 4th line.

Guaranteed the Flyers would be in 1st place and leading the league in goals.

But, of course, I would have been just as irate about Schenn getting gifted the 1C slot ... and then eating my words.

 

[TCTC]

It would have taken the super-deluxe model crystal ball, but Giroux – Schenn – Voracek could have been as nice as what Schenn is doing in St. Louis. That would free up Couturier to lend his goal-increasing talents to Simmonds and (probably) Trigger. 3rd line would be Patrick / Filppula as C / LW with Konecny on RW. Then the Honey Bee 4th line.

Guaranteed the Flyers would be in 1st place and leading the league in goals.

But, of course, I would have been just as irate about Schenn getting gifted the 1C slot ... and then eating my words.

It would've never happened here, but imagine that top 9. Quite possibly best in the league.

 

[Tripod]

I agree that putting Patrick as a top 9 center was a no brainer, but where are the posts recognizing the fact that his rookie struggles are a big part of the team's lack of secondary scoring? If he was healthy and producing like the actual #1OA then the team would have significantly more goals and wins.

I posted about it before.

I said that we had Patrock, Konecny, Simmonds, Aeal and Flip as 5 of our 6 middle 6 players, and they were not getting it done.