My post was meant to focus on how we have been evaluating him this past year while he was 22 moreso than his age going forward, so it was probably misleading which I did not intend it to be, so I apologize for that. And you are absolutely correct, he is 23 now, and he will be 23 all of next season.
Player Discussion Henri Jokiharju
- Thread starter Dubi Doo
- Start date
He is one of the few younger players who struggled with the changes in Granato's first full season. It's possible it was the early injury and then the defensive zone heavy, high quality opponent use that he and Dahlin were fed. He seemed to adjust as the year went on, though the second injury didn't help. And when they split him and Dahlin up, it made a difference as well. It would be great if he channeled some of what he did in Portland here in Buffalo.
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
He definitely deferred to Dahlin vice being more assertive which was reflective in how his play improved when they were split
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I won't be shocked if Joki were Power's partner to start the season.
You guys are nuts
Jokiharju is 22 and playing a top 4 role and finally starting to show poise and signs of figuring out the NHL and you want to move him for a year of Dumba?
22!
Duncan Keith's rookie year was at 22, and he showed promise, but was seriously flawed when he came into the league.
I watched a lot of Winterhawks games while Jokiharju was there, and I guarantee that he has another level to him and has not come anywhere near his ceiling.
The way his development has been botched, it would not surprise me if he is a player that continues to develop and doesn't peak until his late 20s.
I guess you didn't read my full post because I said I don't think he should be traded, because of our relative lack of depth at that position (RHD in particular). Teams usually trade from a position of depth, which in our case would be young F's or picks.
With that said, if MIN offered Dumba for Joker and the VGK 2nd, and we were able to sign Dumba to a reasonable long term extension, it would be stupid not to not at least consider it seriously.
Anderson is not a practical trade option because of the bargain contract he's signed to for 4 more years.
joshjull
Registered User
His adjustment time was roughly on par with Dahlin’s. Both took about 3 months or so before they started to figure it out. A combination of purging what Krueger drilled into them and absorbing what Granato wanted. They also had to adjust to the role/usage of top pairing dmen for the first time in their careers.
I think what hurts the perception of Joker as much as anything is a combination of his delayed start and Dahlin‘s back half of the season. While Joker was still in that 3 month figuring it out phase Dahlin was growing his game. Then by the time Joker had his game on track the last couple months. Dahlin had taken his game to a whole other level. It was a tough nightly comparison for Joker. I think he got more recognition once he was moved away from Dahlin but thats a small sample at the end of the year.
The top pairing usage was a good challenge/development move by Granato. Ultimately both Dahlin and Joker rose to the challenge. In Dahlin’s case that’s what he is supposed to be. I’m not sure thats the case with Joker but he showed more to his game than I thought he had.
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My response was not really in regards to your reasoning or value, and I actually multi-quoted two other posters, but for some reason yours was the only one to come through, (most likely user error on my part, all the options on these boards still confuse me
so sorry, I was not trying to pick on you specifically, (except for the dumba idea part, I was definitely teasing you for that, but it was all in fun, so hopefully you didn't take it too personally).I find the idea that we are speculating that a 22 year old defensman that had been poorly developed was probably already at his peak. That was the take-away I was trying to (and likely failed) to relate.
Jokiharju doesn't have a ton of value right now but he has shown flashes and has the pedigree that he is worth a lot more on the gamble of keeping him and letting him further develop than moving him now for a reduced return, imo.
My response was not really in regards to your reasoning or value, and I actually multi-quoted two other posters, but for some reason yours was the only one to come through, (most likely user error on my part, all the options on these boards still confuse me
I find the idea that we are speculating that a 22 year old defensman that had been poorly developed was probably already at his peak. That was the take-away I was trying to (and likely failed) to relate.
Jokiharju doesn't have a ton of value right now but he has shown flashes and has the pedigree that he is worth a lot more on the gamble of keeping him and letting him further develop than moving him now for a reduced return, imo.
I hear you and I don't take it personally
I actually do think Joker has a good deal of value because he's locked in at a great cap hit. And like you said, he's not close to his peak. We know Dmen peak later and his best hockey is ahead of him.
That's why, although I'd like to keep him, he could be particularly valuable to a team like MIN if they wanted to open up cap space by moving Dumba out, given all the dead cap on their roster the next 3 years and Joker's low AAV.
Not sure if there are any other RD that are realistic targets and a substantial enough upgrade that I'd be willing to give up Joker for. Ryan Johnson and VGK 2nd for John Marino would have made sense. But an extended Dumba (if reasonable AAV) for Joker+ also makes a lot of sense as long as the '+' isn't too much.
Ace
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2015
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I think he’s a fine player and one that I would be happy to have on the third pair in the future…but that’s in a vacuum. There’s a cap reality in the league that this team should be taking advantage of. I don’t have a player in mind but half of the teams in the league (and almost all the good ones) would value his 2 years at 2.5 to the point where you can get a better player whose contract is bigger. Joker’s value as a fine NHL RHD is higher to teams against the cap right now than it would be in the vacuum. Maybe I’ll look for a specific player or two that make this make sense…but you get it. I think we can upgrade our defense because Joker can play and has a good contract.
I'm ready to cut bait.
He's been given every opportunity to succeed in the system with high-end partners, but he still doesn't seem to have the basics of positional play down, he doesn't bring any physicality or high offensive potential. He might be a third pairing guy here, but he's young enough where he still has value to someone else.
Given the depth of the Sabres' current pipeline, I would be glad to pair him with a pretty high draft choice to get a solid second-pairing young RHD.
He's been given every opportunity to succeed in the system with high-end partners, but he still doesn't seem to have the basics of positional play down, he doesn't bring any physicality or high offensive potential. He might be a third pairing guy here, but he's young enough where he still has value to someone else.
Given the depth of the Sabres' current pipeline, I would be glad to pair him with a pretty high draft choice to get a solid second-pairing young RHD.
Naw. After a couple of unlovable, mediocre seasons.After his first preseason game...
Still better than Nylander, tho.
Why do I feel like this is still the thing? There just isn't consistency there. And there is a complete lack of physicality and they can't afford to have half of their defense be so incompetent at defending especially when it is one entire pair.
It's just that my runway with him has run out.
I am probably the last Henri Jokiharju fan on this board, but even I think a change of scenery is in order. His development has been stunted by injuries and the fact that his style of play doesn't complement Dahlin or Power...his strengths overlap with theirs, but he isn't as good as they are, so too much of the time his responsibilities are contrary to what he's good at.
There's also the fact that if you're a defenseman who doesn't play well with Dahlin or Power and doesn't play on the PK...there really isn't a role for you on the current Sabres roster.
Hopefully there's a team out there who still recognizes his potential and will give up reasonable value to acquire him. I still think he has #3 D upside (flame away!)
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Idk he seems kind of fine considering what we have left for D-man currently. It doesn't help that we are playing him 20+ minutes in a lot of recent games. RIght now the Sabres would have to get a lot of quality D-man before thinking about letting Joker go because our depth blows much harder than he does.
Bendium
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2019
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Joker is not what we need in any of our currently open 4-8 dmen spots. He is a 3rd line puck mover, but not good enough at shooting and passing to be considered an offensive defensman, and not good enough at defense to be considered a defensive defensman, so............he is just a guy. He has some trade value for a team that is looking for what he does, and should be moved in the offseason.
TheMistyStranger
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- May 21, 2005
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MOGlLNY
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2008
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Henri has been great so far this year and I want to give him his flowers. Keep it up!
I think most of us including myself were hoping to see us move him out or push him down but he’s shown he’s got more to give and more development in him. Hope he continues on this path it’s good for us and him!
I think most of us including myself were hoping to see us move him out or push him down but he’s shown he’s got more to give and more development in him. Hope he continues on this path it’s good for us and him!
sabresfan129103
1-4-6-14
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