Heeeeere comes expansion! - Part II

[Melrose Munch]

Lamar Hunt?

He's been dead since 2006.

Lamar Hunt Jr.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Just take the numeric portion at the end, and put it between tweet tags [ ....tweet...],,number,,,,[/....tweet....]. No spaces or commas.

Thank you.

I heard that KC aren't actually put in a bid and are waiting so maybe a relocation destination.

Then seattle is in tough. KC, Houston, Toronto. All cities that won't mess up the schedule like Quebec.

 

[adsfan]

That's a fairly recent development though, isn't it?

If fairly recent is revealing the truth in the last 6 weeks, than yes.

A drawing of the new arena was shown with figure skaters on the ice. I think that was in April. It was misleading. The Bucks owners have consistently refused to discuss the issue, even with the Admirals owners.

I was in favor of the new arena if the Admirals were going to play there. Harris Turer, the principal owner of the Admirals, has suggested in the last 2 weeks that the team will move back across the street to the UW Milwaukee Panther Arena, the old MECCA that the Bucks and Admirals and Marquette played in before the BC was built by the Admirals former owners.

 

[NickWIHockey]

not including a second tenant like a NHL team is extremely shortsighted imo. hockey playoffs are awesome to watch and theres nothing Milwaukee fans love more than beating chicago in anything-football, basketball etc. if you want to pay back the 250M sooner, you get an NHL team and Marquette as tenants.

 

[adsfan]

What does this mean though? And I thought the NBA said the end of the month.

This is news to me, and I live in the Milwaukee area! The new arena needs to be open for the 2017 NBA season. That is still 27 or 28 months away.

There is a designated site. There is a proposed budget to build it. There are elements of a design with 10K seats downstairs and 7K upstairs, which is the opposite of the current arena, which was opened in October 1988.

The new 2 year state budget is supposed to start on July 1. It hasn't passed yet. If it is a few days late, it won't be the first time. The legislators will want to go home on July 3rd, so I expect it to be done by then.

 

[BattleBorn]

This is news to me, and I live in the Milwaukee area! The new arena needs to be open for the 2017 NBA season. That is still 27 or 28 months away.

There is a designated site. There is a proposed budget to build it. There are elements of a design with 10K seats downstairs and 7K upstairs, which is the opposite of the current arena, which was opened in October 1988.

The new 2 year state budget is supposed to start on July 1. It hasn't passed yet. If it is a few days late, it won't be the first time. The legislators will want to go home on July 3rd, so I expect it to be done by then.

I apologize for my ignorance, but has the NBA given Milwaukee an ultimatum?

 

[adsfan]

not including a second tenant like a NHL team is extremely shortsighted imo. hockey playoffs are awesome to watch and theres nothing Milwaukee fans love more than beating chicago in anything-football, basketball etc. if you want to pay back the 250M sooner, you get an NHL team and Marquette as tenants.

No it isn't. The new owners don't want to share the arena, especially with an NHL team. They don't want the AHL Admirals in the building. They may not want Marquette's men's basketball team either. There is going to be a holy war over that one, followed by some very angry Admirals fans. The third Bucks owner, Dinan, has refused to put up a cent for the new arena. I don't think that all of these pre-conditions will fly in Milwaukee.

I give the new arena a 40% chance at the moment. It is still doable, but the 3 Bucks owners have disappeared. They have antagonized the locals, the Admirals, and the state legislators. I don't think that all of the Republicans will vote for this, and many of the Democrats are against it.

 

[adsfan]

I apologize for my ignorance, but has the NBA given Milwaukee an ultimatum?

No worries. Yes, have the new arena open for the 2017-18 NBA season or the NBA buys back the team for $575M. (After that, it is probably on to Seattle, unless another city can put together a better deal.)

 

[Brodie]

not including a second tenant like a NHL team is extremely shortsighted imo. hockey playoffs are awesome to watch and theres nothing Milwaukee fans love more than beating chicago in anything-football, basketball etc. if you want to pay back the 250M sooner, you get an NHL team and Marquette as tenants.

Milwaukee is too small for both sports. This is the same problem Cleveland and Buffalo had in the seventies, and the reason Pittsburgh isn't in the NBA today

 

[NickWIHockey]

No it isn't. The new owners don't want to share the arena, especially with an NHL team. They don't want the AHL Admirals in the building. They may not want Marquette's men's basketball team either. There is going to be a holy war over that one, followed by some very angry Admirals fans. The third Bucks owner, Dinan, has refused to put up a cent for the new arena. I don't think that all of these pre-conditions will fly in Milwaukee.

I give the new arena a 40% chance at the moment. It is still doable, but the 3 Bucks owners have disappeared. They have antagonized the locals, the Admirals, and the state legislators. I don't think that all of the Republicans will vote for this, and many of the Democrats are against it.

all the Dems are likely to oppose it- thats 14 of the 33 members right there. 17 is needed for a majority. walker has confirmed that they will need democratic votes to pass, which given his relationship with Dems is uh, considerably less than friendly- is a tall ask. if the arena is not included in the budget, they will basically have to start all over in the new year, if that is even possible. the legislature may vote it down entirely , basically killing the deal and sealing the Bucks fate in the state. if the arena does not pass, goodbye Bucks.

 

[BattleBorn]

No worries. Yes, have the new arena open for the 2017-18 NBA season or the NBA buys back the team for $575M. (After that, it is probably on to Seattle, unless another city can put together a better deal.)

Wow. I consider myself a fairly informed person when it comes to sports, I will admit the NBA is my weak suit, but I'm really surprised I haven't heard much about it here locally. There used to be breaking sports news reports on all the local media any time a team of any sort was on the verge of moving since they were always "potentially moving to Las Vegas." I wonder if we're just so caught up in the hockey thing nobody even cares to mention NBA here anymore.

 

[adsfan]

Wow. I consider myself a fairly informed person when it comes to sports, I will admit the NBA is my weak suit, but I'm really surprised I haven't heard much about it here locally. There used to be breaking sports news reports on all the local media any time a team of any sort was on the verge of moving since they were always "potentially moving to Las Vegas." I wonder if we're just so caught up in the hockey thing nobody even cares to mention NBA here anymore.

The NBA is my weak suit too. I went to a Bucks game for the first time in 20 years and it was a horror show! The Bucks were down by 5 or 6 at halftime. Philly came out shooting 3 pointers, which the Bucks didn't defend at first. The third quarter score was 100-66. We left, followed by half of the 7500 fans. I told my wife that we would go in another 20 years. I follow the story because it is local and I am an Admirals 1/2 STH at the moment. The outcome will have an effect on me.

 

[displacedpensfan]

Thoughts....

I think it's certain we'll see bids from Quebec City and Las Vegas, and probably at least one from some Seattle entity (how credible it is, who knows?). Beyond that there's a lot of uncertainty. My guess is that there's at least one more city that bids, but the question is, who?

If we go down the list of who actually has an NHL capable arena but no franchise, Cleveland, Memphis, New Orleans, and OKC are probably too saturated to handle another team. Mumblings out of Kansas City are that for now they aren't interested; in Houston Les Alexander's silence on the issue is taken as a no. Milwaukee's arena situation is too murky, Hartford's probably not far enough ahead on the new XL Center, and Orlando can see that a 3rd NHL franchise won't work.

That leaves Toronto/Southern Ontario and Portland. The issues around the first are many and complicated, but nobody argues that it wouldn't effectively be a printing press of C$100 bills. Portland could be interested if it looks like the Seattle bid is a mess; Paul Allen made a play for the Penguins less than a decade ago, so there's clearly some interest there......

.......and though I'll get flayed alive for what I'm about to write.......I keep circling back around to the idea of a return to Atlanta. Hear me out: the Phillips Center is NHL ready, though it clearly needs a bit of sprucing up and at least one exorcism after ASG's control. There were rumordly credible individuals who did really want to buy the Thrashers when they were for sale (Tom Glavine was named as the face behind one such group); it's a massive market with huge corporate money, and before the Septo-Cluster bleeped the bleep out of everything, the Thrashers drew reasonably okay crowds. The timing is probably just slightly off, however as the Hawks new ownership team just took possession, but there have been rumblings that there's still interest with money behind it-especially if a new arena were to be built up in Cobb County near where the Braves new digs will be. It's the darkest of dark horses in this thing.

 

[Brodie]

Memphis doesn't have an NHL ready arena. As I said in the last thread, I think Cleveland could make a bid that wouldn't make any sense in real terms but would pump up Dan Gilbert's ego.

If Lamar Hunt Jr does want an NHL team, I think he might be savvy enough to wait out Phoenix, ditto Paul Allen. I think Toronto, maybe with a proposal to play in Hamilton until a new arena is built, will be the wild card bid.

 

[displacedpensfan]

Memphis doesn't have an NHL ready arena. As I said in the last thread, I think Cleveland could make a bid that wouldn't make any sense in real terms but would pump up Dan Gilbert's ego.

If Lamar Hunt Jr does want an NHL team, I think he might be savvy enough to wait out Phoenix, ditto Paul Allen. I think Toronto, maybe with a proposal to play in Hamilton until a new arena is built, will be the wild card bid.

I agree that Gilbert's egomanical enough to try.

FedEx supposedly seats 16,411 for hockey according to Wikipedia, but I have a better chance of marrying a supermodel tomorrow than an NHL team in Memphis in the next two decades.

Phoenix has to be tempting, but the longer they stay, the greater chance that by some small miracle the few adults in the state actually fix that situation. There's now actually real talk of putting the Suns and Coyotes together under a new, nice roof in downtown Phoenix. I think that would actually be a successful set up and should yield something like the success the Dallas Stars have.

No, the team that's got the most fundamental problems that are less fixable plays in Miami. The geography there simply is terrible for a hockey team and you can't fix that.

 

[KevFu]

Milwaukee is too small for both sports. This is the same problem Cleveland and Buffalo had in the seventies, and the reason Pittsburgh isn't in the NBA today

I would agree on the size of Milwaukee for being essentially a four-sport city -- yes, I know Green Bay and Milwaukee are not the same city, but it's essentially the same market.

However, I think there's two massive differences between the 70s and now:

#1 - In the 70s, there was an incredible amount of untapped larger sports markets than Buffalo and Cleveland. Plenty of places to move to.

#2 - In the 70s, revenue was about ticket volume moved. And for the most part, a seat was a seat. The more people in a market, the more tickets you can sell because not everyone can afford to go to 84 home games in a dual NBA/NHL market.

Today -- and this is where I think the pendulum swings back the other way a little bit -- revenue is about sponsorship, TV and suite & premium revenue as much or more as regular ticket revenue.

Hockey went to big markets because there's more sponsors, more potential TV viewers for, and more rich people buying suites and premium tickets; There's also more regular people to sell to, so it's far easier to survive lean periods, etc.


But because of the amount of money the suites, sponsors and premium tickets bring in, in today's era of sports business, a smaller city would have to RELY LESS on regular people buying 2x the tickets if there's both NBA/NHL than they used to in the 70s.

I think that's why someone like Dan Gilbert bought the Lake Erie Monsters: Because he can sell his arena sponsorships and suites for Cavs prices without hockey; but he can tell the same rich people "The same thing now costs 1.5 times as much because it includes the Monsters" and they have to pay it to get the Cavs.

So while I do think that Kansas City would be too small for the NHL, MLB, NFL and MLS... I really DON'T think Milwaukee would automatically be incapable of supporting both NBA & NHL.

The important part is that the NBA & NHL teams, and the ARENA have to be under control of the same people, and as few people as possible.

 

[Cacciaguida]

Milwaukee is too small for both sports. This is the same problem Cleveland and Buffalo had in the seventies, and the reason Pittsburgh isn't in the NBA today

in this day of age I could see Pittsburgh scooping up an NBA team (for a fair price) and same with Milwaukee for the NHL.

As for their success, it really depends how well they are managed.

 

[Agalloch]

I think it's certain we'll see bids from Quebec City and Las Vegas, and probably at least one from some Seattle entity (how credible it is, who knows?). Beyond that there's a lot of uncertainty. My guess is that there's at least one more city that bids, but the question is, who?

If we go down the list of who actually has an NHL capable arena but no franchise, Cleveland, Memphis, New Orleans, and OKC are probably too saturated to handle another team. Mumblings out of Kansas City are that for now they aren't interested; in Houston Les Alexander's silence on the issue is taken as a no. Milwaukee's arena situation is too murky, Hartford's probably not far enough ahead on the new XL Center, and Orlando can see that a 3rd NHL franchise won't work.

That leaves Toronto/Southern Ontario and Portland. The issues around the first are many and complicated, but nobody argues that it wouldn't effectively be a printing press of C$100 bills. Portland could be interested if it looks like the Seattle bid is a mess; Paul Allen made a play for the Penguins less than a decade ago, so there's clearly some interest there......

.......and though I'll get flayed alive for what I'm about to write.......I keep circling back around to the idea of a return to Atlanta. Hear me out: the Phillips Center is NHL ready, though it clearly needs a bit of sprucing up and at least one exorcism after ASG's control. There were rumordly credible individuals who did really want to buy the Thrashers when they were for sale (Tom Glavine was named as the face behind one such group); it's a massive market with huge corporate money, and before the Septo-Cluster bleeped the bleep out of everything, the Thrashers drew reasonably okay crowds. The timing is probably just slightly off, however as the Hawks new ownership team just took possession, but there have been rumblings that there's still interest with money behind it-especially if a new arena were to be built up in Cobb County near where the Braves new digs will be. It's the darkest of dark horses in this thing.

Graeme Roustan said he would bid for another Toronto based team.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/g...initely-apply-for-second-nhl-team-in-toronto/

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Cleveland

I agree that Gilbert's egomanical enough to try.

FedEx supposedly seats 16,411 for hockey according to Wikipedia, but I have a better chance of marrying a supermodel tomorrow than an NHL team in Memphis in the next two decades.

Phoenix has to be tempting, but the longer they stay, the greater chance that by some small miracle the few adults in the state actually fix that situation. There's now actually real talk of putting the Suns and Coyotes together under a new, nice roof in downtown Phoenix. I think that would actually be a successful set up and should yield something like the success the Dallas Stars have.

No, the team that's got the most fundamental problems that are less fixable plays in Miami. The geography there simply is terrible for a hockey team and you can't fix that.

Cleveland/LE won't happen, displaced, Gilbert essentially blackballed SVSE (AKA SJSE/Sharks when he bought the Gunds out of the entertainment business, the Monsters themselves are aligned under the Cavaliers ownership and essentially are guaranteed to exist lease-wise according to our Cleveland/LE Fanbase, the way that lease is worded, LE cannot be spun out/relocated/sold.

 

[Phil Parent]

According to La Presse, a faceless and nameless group of Canadian and American investors are interested in bringing a team to Houston. They haven't decided if they would bid yet.

http://affaires.lapresse.ca/201506/26/01-4881020-de-linteret-pour-une-equipe-de-la-lnh-a-houston.php

No word on who is in this group. Maybe it's IceArizona for all we know. No word if Les Alexander is involved, which he'd have to be.

The group wanted to buy the Coyotes and move them to Houston.

They want to rent Toyota Center and if that doesn't work, they want to build an arena in the north of Houston. Heh, lots of ifs.

 

[Agalloch]

According to La Presse, a faceless and nameless group of Canadian and American investors are interested in bringing a team to Houston. They haven't decided if they would bid yet.

http://affaires.lapresse.ca/201506/26/01-4881020-de-linteret-pour-une-equipe-de-la-lnh-a-houston.php

No word on who is in this group. Maybe it's IceArizona for all we know. No word if Les Alexander is involved, which he'd have to be.

The group wanted to buy the Coyotes and move them to Houston.

They want to rent Toyota Center and if that doesn't work, they want to build an arena in the north of Houston. Heh, lots of ifs.

There will be a lot more candidates than people think (if Seattle is not willing to pay 500M right now, they could be a relocation place for the Coyotes).

So right now the rumors for the bids are : Quebec, Las Vegas, Houston and Toronto.

 

[Shawa666]

There will be a lot more candidates than people think (if Seattle is not willing to pay 500M right now, they could be a relocation place for the Coyotes).

So right now the rumors for the bids are : Quebec, Las Vegas, Houston and Toronto.

I've seen KC with Lamar Hunt Jr. and rumblings about Milwaukee too.

 

[Mightygoose]

Ah lots of speculation and we'll see many come out of the woodwork. Just what the NHL hoped for in my opinion.

The real fun begins on July 6.

 

[Melrose Munch]

According to La Presse, a faceless and nameless group of Canadian and American investors are interested in bringing a team to Houston. They haven't decided if they would bid yet.

http://affaires.lapresse.ca/201506/26/01-4881020-de-linteret-pour-une-equipe-de-la-lnh-a-houston.php

No word on who is in this group. Maybe it's IceArizona for all we know. No word if Les Alexander is involved, which he'd have to be.

The group wanted to buy the Coyotes and move them to Houston.

They want to rent Toyota Center and if that doesn't work, they want to build an arena in the north of Houston. Heh, lots of ifs.

Shocked. This is going to be too much fun!

 

[sparkychewbarky]

Perhaps several bids coming from the Southern Ontario region, including one from Graeme Roustan...

http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/node/28659