Post-Game Talk: heave ho! 8 in a row (At home)

[kovazub94]

yep..dont even have to look at all those stats, just watch him..use the eye test, dont just watch when Nash single handedly sets him up for a gimme..watch when he goes behind the net and blindly throws the puck to the slot where, count em, 3 Vancouver players are, and 0 Ranger players are, only to have 3 Ranger players trapped for a 3 on 2 rush against. Or have him come in on a 3 on 2, fall over for no reason, and have a 3 on 2 against because failskates...or have him come up the ice with a head of steam, try to make a move in the neutral zone, turn it over, and have a 3 on 1 come back down our throats.

Time...and time...and effing time again, he does the same crap, and gets effing rewarded for it with MORE ice time in HIGHER leverage situations.

JIMMY VESEY IS NOT AN NHL PLAYER.

WRONG. These situations are correctable and can be learned to avoid. Of course, except for his intentional losing an edge, which btw happen to a few other skaters yesterday).

 

[kovazub94]

Smith has looked fantastic of late..other than idiotic penalties ive really liked his game...

Holden has played pretty well too, which is shocking. Staal has been hit or miss but lightyears better than last year. Kampfer has sucked imho. Shatty and Skjei have been A+.

The actual players havent been an issue...i still think that our defensive zone SYSTEM is extremely problematic...because the SYSTEM is...let Henrik make a billion ridiculous saves a game, and hope we can put in 4 or 5 goals on breakaways.

Vancouver showed through 2 periods why our system is dumb come playoff time. Clog the zone, dont give up the stretch pass, take away time and space, and we suck. They turtled for a bit, their goalie gave up a softie, and we won.

Long term..not a recipe for success. FIRE AV.

System sucks. It also energy inefficient which in itself increases the number of long shifts where the Rangers get locked in their own zone.

 

[ltsthinaz]

How has kampfer looked lately?

Anybody playing with Staal will look awful - he hasn't really been that bad I'd rather have him in the lineup than Staal when McD returns but it'll never happen.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

yep..dont even have to look at all those stats, just watch him..use the eye test, dont just watch when Nash single handedly sets him up for a gimme..watch when he goes behind the net and blindly throws the puck to the slot where, count em, 3 Vancouver players are, and 0 Ranger players are, only to have 3 Ranger players trapped for a 3 on 2 rush against. Or have him come in on a 3 on 2, fall over for no reason, and have a 3 on 2 against because failskates...or have him come up the ice with a head of steam, try to make a move in the neutral zone, turn it over, and have a 3 on 1 come back down our throats.

Time...and time...and effing time again, he does the same crap, and gets effing rewarded for it with MORE ice time in HIGHER leverage situations.

JIMMY VESEY IS NOT AN NHL PLAYER.

Absolutely False.

 

[Levitate]

That's what I mean when I say he has JT Miller potential. But the difference is AV gave Miller a short leash at a young age, Vesey has a long one.

Miller sees the ice on a whole 'nother level than Vesey even if he does hold the puck too much and try to make a perfect pass too often. Thing is that Miller can see how such a pass would work and he'll try to make it. Vesey thinks he could see a pass that doesn't exist and throws it to an area of the ice where there are no teammates.

I feel like I'm too hard on him for some dumb reason but ever since he came into the NHL his passing vision seems to be consistently a step behind the actual play on the ice. And that's fine if he stopped trying to be that puck possession guy who makes amazing passes and just kept it simple and drove to the net. I trust Kreider to make higher quality passes than I do Vesey. I dunno, I want him to succeed, but if the team is going to try to lean on him to grow into a consistent top six player then there's an issue with how he's approaching the game now.

re: the team, I've only been able to half pay attention the past few games but yeah the puck management and defense seems to be pretty bad lately. After tightening things down for a few games they've let things get away from them again.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Miller sees the ice on a whole 'nother level than Vesey even if he does hold the puck too much and try to make a perfect pass too often. Thing is that Miller can see how such a pass would work and he'll try to make it. Vesey thinks he could see a pass that doesn't exist and throws it to an area of the ice where there are no teammates.

I feel like I'm too hard on him for some dumb reason but ever since he came into the NHL his passing vision seems to be consistently a step behind the actual play on the ice. And that's fine if he stopped trying to be that puck possession guy who makes amazing passes and just kept it simple and drove to the net. I trust Kreider to make higher quality passes than I do Vesey. I dunno, I want him to succeed, but if the team is going to try to lean on him to grow into a consistent top six player then there's an issue with how he's approaching the game now.

re: the team, I've only been able to half pay attention the past few games but yeah the puck management and defense seems to be pretty bad lately. After tightening things down for a few games they've let things get away from them again.

Interesting how someone can be a Harvard guy but not smart when it comes to hockey. I guess it's a different type of smart.

 

[Maximus]

He was mostly good. Made a few flubs that could've been disastrous. He was in on one rush and fanned on the shot allowing the Nucks to counter attack. But everyone was giving the puck away really until the 3rd period comeback.

Thx for the input Will....appreciate it.

I continue to contend that Smitty absolutely needs to be one of our top 4 in order for us to get to the places we all want this team to get too as he is essential for this teams success going forward.

So very happy Smith is back to playing like we all hoped he would and why GMJG gave him that contract that he gave him....

 

[Kupo]

Keep it going boys! Good win!

 

[Kupo]

 

[Kupo]

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Sloppy game but good thing they found a way to get 2 points.

 

[Nickmo82]

Vesey's problem comes from the fact that he was part of a bidding war when he refused to sign in Nashville/Buffalo. People were pleased (at the time) that the Rangers got him to sign here, so there were pretty high expectations put on the kid. Couple that with the fact that AV sees in him something that isn't there and spoonfeeds him minutes he can't always handle, and he's going to disappoint.

 

[Kupo]

Sloppy game but good thing they found a way to get 2 points.

Not to hang on Lundqvist’s nutsack, but he’s given us points we had no business getting. And he’s done so throughout his career.

When you get outplayed, yet find a way to win?

That’s just gravy. We very well could/should have lost tonight, but we didn’t.

Those wins just feel ****ing great.

Great November from our boys.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

When will the Desharnais experiment come to a close? Otherwise the team is looking in the best shape is a while. What players in the system can replace him?

• Carey can stay for now he is day-to-day
• It's great having Smith when he is able to play with discipline, his teammates like playing with him
• Kampfer has turned into an excellent budget Girardi, keep day-to-day
• Holden's game right now reminds me of Kasparaitis a bit
• Nash is looking very good, I'm thinking now we definitely can't afford him after this year expires

Does anyone else feel uneasy when Kampfer/Holden skate past the hash marks/behind opposing net with the puck when guys like Zib, Buch, or Grabs are on the ice? I know it's our style and it's working really well for the most part, but Zib is useless at the point. Not sure if its something AV has seen and tweaked because this seems less of a problem since that one game we lost where McD was all over the place in the last 5 minutes (which team was that?)

Thank god we got rid of Del Zotto when we could. I'd take Smith over MDZ any day of the week. All MDZ does is fall all over the place, he was on the floor before Nash even made the spin move to tie the game via Vesey. Sorta sad because when we got MDZ he was young, and he learned how to play NHL hockey under the Torts system: shot blocking/get in the lane defense coverage. He wasn't very good at that (advertised as a fast puck moving defensemen) but he was in and out of lineups until he became good at that. I wonder what a young MDZ would develop into if we had just drafted him and he played under AV as his first NHL coach. Just look at how much Skjei's game has developed. Goes to show timing means a lot.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

WRONG. These situations are correctable and can be learned to avoid. Of course, except for his intentional losing an edge, which btw happen to a few other skaters yesterday).

He's played well over 100 games in the NHL at this point. It's not as if he's barely had experience. He's shown to be a horrible passer with no vision for the majority of those 100 games. I doubt that will change anytime soon.

If Vesey produced like Miller, it'd be forgivable. But he doesn't. He's one of the least productive forwards in the NHL in terms of p/60.

The kid is almost 25. I'd say he is what he is at this point. Keep him on the fourth line, get him off the f***ing PP and people won't complain about him. The reason people are complaining about him so much is because he's being way overplayed. He's the coach's new pet.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

He's played well over 100 games in the NHL at this point. It's not as if he's barely had experience. He's shown to be a horrible passer with no vision for the majority of those 100 games. I doubt that will change anytime soon.

If Vesey produced like Miller, it'd be forgivable. But he doesn't. He's one of the least productive forwards in the NHL in terms of p/60.

The kid is almost 25. I'd say he is what he is at this point. Keep him on the fourth line, get him off the ****ing PP and people won't complain about him. The reason people are complaining about him so much is because he's being way overplayed. He's the coach's new pet.

Vesey is still new to the NHL, his game is slowly but surely improving. I don't know why people discount his ability to see the game - he has very solid fundamentals and can score goals from many places on the ice. Plus he works well with Nash who is otherwise a passenger on any other line. Miller has been in the league a lot longer than Vesey and took a while to really get going. Vesey needs the minutes he has the potential to be better than Miller.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Vesey is still new to the NHL, his game is slowly but surely improving. I don't know why people discount his ability to see the game - he has very solid fundamentals and can score goals from many places on the ice. Plus he works well with Nash who is otherwise a passenger on any other line. Miller has been in the league a lot longer than Vesey and took a while to really get going. Vesey needs the minutes he has the potential to be better than Miller.

In what universe does Vesey have the potential to be better than Miller?

What an utterly baffling statement.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

In what universe does Vesey have the potential to be better than Miller?

What an utterly baffling statement.

Let me clarify, Vesey has the potential to be a better goal scorer than Miller.

They were born 2 months apart, but Miller started playing in the NHL 4 years before Vesey did. It took Miller a couple years to get going in the NHL. Same for Vesey at Harvard, where he had 32 goals in his 3rd year there. The reason I really think Vesey has high potential is that he's been a top goal scorer at multiple levels of hockey, scoring almost 1 goal per game played in multiple leagues he's played in. Miller has shifted his game to becoming a playmaker and his assist total for the season is reflecting that.

 

[Ola]

Nash, Shatty and Hank for my three star. Vesey with the HM. Huge confidence booster for the kid.

The first was not good for several reasons, one of them was that it just was one of those nights.

The 4th was god damn awful though. DD should be played at wing.

Miller was killed by the Sedins before AV changed matchups.​

 

[FultonReed]

 

[Ola]

How has kampfer looked lately?

Worse than Hunwick and Holden did in similar situations, IMO. Better than garbage.

Seriously though, I do not think AV/Gorton/Ruff should settle in with Mein Kampfer as our RD for the rest of the season. Its good that he can carry the load until someone else takes an opportunity and runs with it. Definitely. But when the stars align TDA/Pionk should get a shot.

Vesey just frustrates me in that he seems though he could be a solid useful player if he played one style of game but he keeps trying to play another. He's got good hands, he's got good instincts for jumping into passing lanes and stealing pucks, he's got a good nose around the net, but he plays like he wants to be a puck control player and he doesn't have the vision for that. He turns it over constantly trying to be Kevin Hayes out there but he can't quite see the ice well enough to play that way.

Even if the kid is 25 and so forth, I think its important to remember that going from College to the NHL is a huge transition for him. In College he was a 1.39 and 1.56 point per game player the last years before going to the NHL.

As such, you are really dominating the ice many times. His current work description is very very different. I still think he makes a lot of good plays in many areas, although he has been more down than up lately. But OTOH he was good in the POs and had a good camp. I think he will grow into it better if given more time.

 

[kovazub94]

Now I see Miller's name in the discussion. I hope it's not because of me. I mentioned Miller only because I needed a reference to a player who needed time to figure out how to adjust his game to be an effective player.

 

[Fvital92]

Vesey is still new to the NHL, his game is slowly but surely improving. I don't know why people discount his ability to see the game - he has very solid fundamentals and can score goals from many places on the ice. Plus he works well with Nash who is otherwise a passenger on any other line. Miller has been in the league a lot longer than Vesey and took a while to really get going. Vesey needs the minutes he has the potential to be better than Miller.

If anything, his game has regressed from last year, and he was nothing more than a meh player last year.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

On his goal Vesey made the defensive play to get the puck out of the zone--Nash did make a great play but Vesey also made himself available for that play to be made by continuing to skate hard up the ice and to get separation from the defensive coverage. That goal isn't scored if those things don't happen either. And one last thing Vesey does is he doesn't shoot it right away--he recognizes the goalie is moving across the crease--he takes the pass and goes the other way with it and then he puts it top shelf and not along the ice like we've seen so many other times players failing to do and not getting the goal. Nash made a great play but that was good recognition and great hands on Vesey's part to finish it off.

It was a first class finish and he also made a great move and finish on his shootout goal--actually Nash and Shattenkirk did too. Zucc and Buch didn't great shots off. Miller had a pretty good shot and Zibanejad lost the puck altogether.

Beautiful post. What you forget to mention is how north South of a play it was. Vesey literally did not move side to side until the final second. If he did this more often there would be less debate on how good he is. He needs to stay in his lane. He doesn’t have high end hands or creativity. Look at the goals he’s scored. All of them in front of the net. If he stayed trying to do this I’d have no problem with him on the 3rd line

 

[Inferno]

vesey made 1 good play and it ended up in the back of the net thanks to a ridiculous pass by Nash setting him in for more or less a breakaway. He made at LEAST 4 braindead plays in this game that probably wasnt talked about whatsoever in the GDT.
I don't look at goals, I don't look at assists...those things are so luck dependent, and dependent on others finishing the plays. I look at how the player is actually playing. That's why I tend to give Kreider and Nash more of a break, like it or not, most of the times they are doing the right things...even with CK doesnt score, he's a puck retrieving MANIAC. the kid digs pucks out, holds on to the puck, and resets so many broken plays. He goes to the net, takes away the goalies eyes...what he doesnt do is try to skate through 3 players turning the puck over at will, he tries to go around player..when you go around..youre less likely to turn it over...sure, youre more likely to take a big hit against the boards, but less likely to turn it over with numbers heading the other way. it also gives you a place to chip and chase to. Vesey always tries to go through players... puck on his stick, hes an awful player. away from the puck, hes a lot better in that hes a solid forechecker, has good speed, and can close gaps relatively quickly..he's also physical which i like. hes got some aspects of his game that are fine..and as was mentioned before, if you play him as a 4th liner, and keep him off the PP, i really wouldnt complain about him. I dont think hes an NHL player, but TBH I dont think Carey, or DD are NHL players either, and both of them play. I like Boo a lot, and I think he's basically an ideal 4th line center..i see a lot of Blair Betts or even Dominic Moore to his game (without the hands). I think Vesey is more of an NHL player than Carey or DD, so again, if Vesey playing means those 2 arent, then sign me up. I'm all about incremental improvements.

What i dont like is him playing in minutes and situations he shouldnt.

This is the Tanner Glass thing all over again. Except Vesey is CLEARLY a better player than Glass..he's just being put into situations he shouldnt.
This is NOT about Vesey. This is about AV and his idiocy.